Illegal jumping of ball

[WesleyW]

I saw this rule from BCA:

3.26 ILLEGAL JUMPING OF BALL
It is a foul if a player strikes the cue ball below center (“digs under” or “lofts” the cue ball) and intentionally causes it to rise off the bed of the table in an effort to clear an obstructing ball. Such jumping action may occasionally occur accidentally, and such “jumps” are not to be considered fouls on their face; they may still be ruled foul strokes, if for example, the ferrule or cue shaft makes contact with the cue ball in the course of the shot.

Why is it a foul when you intentionally causes it to rise off the bed of table? Someone told me, when you do this, you will surely hit the cue ball twice, that's why this is an illegal jump. But when it's accidentally, why isn't this a foul? And what about when you accidentally causes the cue ball jump over the object ball? Would it be a foul, because the only way to accidentally causes the cue ball jump over the object ball, is to dig the cue ball, so this would also be a foul?

I can understand when you accidentally causes the cue ball jump a little it isn't a foul. But is it a foul when it jumps too high?

 

[Jerm]

i think what that's talking about is those 'scoop shots'

 

[Koopa]

Perhaps it might be that way because you're intentionally using something other than the tip of your cue to strike the cue ball.

Or possibly because that jump shot described as illegal in the rules sounds like it would cause some serious wear and tear on the cloth.

 

[SlickRick_PCS]

I saw this rule from BCA:



Why is it a foul when you intentionally causes it to rise off the bed of table? Someone told me, when you do this, you will surely hit the cue ball twice, that's why this is an illegal jump. But when it's accidentally, why isn't this a foul? And what about when you accidentally causes the cue ball jump over the object ball? Would it be a foul, because the only way to accidentally causes the cue ball jump over the object ball, is to dig the cue ball, so this would also be a foul?

I can understand when you accidentally causes the cue ball jump a little it isn't a foul. But is it a foul when it jumps too high?

Do you know how to jump a cueball legally?

 

[WesleyW]

Do you know how to jump a cueball legally?

Yes, I know. But today someone accidentally dig the cue ball. So I am wondering, if it's a foul or not.

 

[SlickRick_PCS]

Yes, I know. But today someone accidentally dig the cue ball. So I am wondering, if it's a foul or not.

Ohh yea! Very foul !

 

[WesleyW]

Ohh yea! Very foul !

Why? The BCA-rules says it isn't a foul, when this accidentaly happen. So why do you think it is a foul.

 

[SlickRick_PCS]

Why? The BCA-rules says it isn't a foul, when this accidentaly happen. So why do you think it is a foul.

Because the legitimate way to jump a cueball is by the tip and tip only. There are two ways to foul: 1) by either going too low on the cueball with a leveled cue and making the cueball fly over the obsticle ball

or

2) By aiming so low at the cueball, you're "shoveling" the cueball with the ferrule (the white part below the tip-- if you don't know what it is)


So, as the other post were commenting, you're illegally hitting the cueball with anything other than the tip.

 

[traa89]

BCA said the dig is. but the jacking up isnt.

 

[SlickRick_PCS]

BCA said the dig is. but the jacking up isnt.

I did not mean the jacking up and hitting the cueball straight through (that is totally legal). I ment jacking up the cue and going straight down on the cue and lifting your wrist to so-to-speak "shovel" the cueball with the ferrule of the cue. Are you catching me there?

 

[WesleyW]

Because the legitimate way to jump a cueball is by the tip and tip only. There are two ways to foul: 1) by either going too low on the cueball with a leveled cue and making the cueball fly over the obsticle ball

or

2) By aiming so low at the cueball, you're "shoveling" the cueball with the ferrule (the white part below the tip-- if you don't know what it is)


So, as the other post were commenting, you're illegally hitting the cueball with anything other than the tip.

So if I'm correct, you're saying, it doesn't matter if the player are intentionally or accidentally making this kind of shot. When the cueball jumps this high, it will be sure that the player hit the cueball with other parts of the cue than the tip?

 

[SlickRick_PCS]

So if I'm correct, you're saying, it doesn't matter if the player are intentionally or accidentally making this kind of shot. When the cueball jumps this high, it will be sure that the player hit the cueball with other parts of the cue than the tip?

3.26 ILLEGAL JUMPING OF BALL
It is a foul if a player strikes the cue ball below center (“digs under” or “lofts” the cue ball) and intentionally causes it to rise off the bed of the table in an effort to clear an obstructing ball. Such jumping action may occasionally occur accidentally, and such “jumps” are not to be considered fouls on their face; they may still be ruled foul strokes, if for example, the ferrule or cue shaft makes contact with the cue ball in the course of the shot.

You have to remember, when you jump a cueball, it's kind of a quick "jab through" stroke on the cueball. It is not like a massé shot where you "squeeze through" the cueball with your tip -- kinda like squirting a watermelon seed with your index and thumb fingers. The angle of the butt of the cue is around 25-31 degrees (higher is possible but there is alot of technique involved.

But as far as a foul is concerned, even when you pick up the butt of the cue ever so slightly (like 10 degrees or so-- and this is assuming that you hit the CB correctly), you are actually jumping the CB ever so slightly. But (like the bold letters say) if you hit anywhere other than the tip, that is a stroke foul. Even when you try to hit the ball SO LOW (assuming your cue is leveled) with your tip and you make the cueball go over the obstacle ball, you fouled because you're following through the cueball and it is touching the ferrule.

Unless you're trying to pull off a coup fouetté (pronouced Coo Fua-tay), it is a foul.

 

[WesleyW]

Thanks SlickRick_PCS, it's totally clear now.

 

[SlickRick_PCS]

PM sent, Wesley

 

[Ballistic Billiards]

uhhhhhh

If an ACCIDENTAL miscue isn't a foul, then neither would be an ACCIDENTAL jump.
If you INTENTIONALLY (opposite of accidentally) jump over a ball by "digging" or
"scooping" the cue ball, I call foul play.

An ACCIDENTAL illegal jump plays the same way as a miscue. If you get lucky and still
manage to strike your ball and a rail, it's a clean hit, no foul.

 

[SlickRick_PCS]

If an ACCIDENTAL miscue isn't a foul, then neither would be an ACCIDENTAL jump.
If you INTENTIONALLY (opposite of accidentally) jump over a ball by "digging" or
"scooping" the cue ball, I call foul play.

An ACCIDENTAL illegal jump plays the same way as a miscue. If you get lucky and still
manage to strike your ball and a rail, it's a clean hit, no foul.

yea... FOR A BEGINNER !!!!

if you were an A through C+ player (or even better than the latter two), wouldn't you look stupid doing that?

I know I would!

 

[Ballistic Billiards]

right

yea... FOR A BEGINNER !!!!

if you were an A through C+ player (or even better than the latter two), wouldn't you look stupid doing that?

I know I would!

because everyone in my league is an A - C+ player.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I think everyone debated this at DCC. For the life of me, I can't figure out why people think scooping wouldn't be a foul - intentional or not. I mean, if you hit the felt and the ball at the same time and send the CB flying into the air -- intentional or not --- how can experienced pool players (who have real speed to them) say that isn't a foul? Weird.

If that's the case, everytime someone hooks me really good I'm gonna scoop the CB and pop it straight over a ball and say... "OOOPS - not what I was trying to do!!! SORRY!!" In the meantime, I made a good hit off a totally ridiculous shot. Since no one in the world wants to try to define "intentional" here (because.... GOOD LUCK) -- maybe it should always be considered a foul.

This stupid rule reminds me of a story (Jay or Freddy, jump here to identify the guy who did this):

During a world one pocket championship, a player accidentally bumped a ball towards his pocket and his opponent called FOUL! The offending player said it wasn't a foul because he didn't try it.

The player who called foul was an old-timer I believe. He said, "Oh yeah? Really? I didn't know that, I'm sorry."

The old-timer continued to walk around the table a few times to examine his shot. He eventually got down to shoot a ball and when he stroked, he swung his cue hard to one side knocking the entire rack in front of his pocket.

The other player had a meltdown... and the old-timer said "Sorry, I didn't try that so it's not a foul."

This scooping thing is the same story. The rules need to be definitive regardless of whether someone "tries" it or not. I think it's always a foul, and if I'm gambling and someone scoops intentionally or not, I'm taking ball in hand.

 

[third_i]

You have to remember, when you jump a cueball, it's kind of a quick "jab through" stroke on the cueball. It is not like a massé shot where you "squeeze through" the cueball with your tip -- kinda like squirting a watermelon seed with your index and thumb fingers. The angle of the butt of the cue is around 25-31 degrees (higher is possible but there is alot of technique involved.

But as far as a foul is concerned, even when you pick up the butt of the cue ever so slightly (like 10 degrees or so-- and this is assuming that you hit the CB correctly), you are actually jumping the CB ever so slightly. But (like the bold letters say) if you hit anywhere other than the tip, that is a stroke foul. Even when you try to hit the ball SO LOW (assuming your cue is leveled) with your tip and you make the cueball go over the obstacle ball, you fouled because you're following through the cueball and it is touching the ferrule.

Unless you're trying to pull off a coup fouetté (pronouced Coo Fua-tay), it is a foul.

Exactly right. I've taught maybe 5 or 6 players(friends) to legal jump, some of course got it better than others but I explained this to them just so they understand what is happening. I usually will take a coin to show them that the ball does actually jump any time you raise the butt of the cue.

 

[mbvl]

Why? The BCA-rules says it isn't a foul, when this accidentaly happen. So why do you think it is a foul.

Because it's a terrible rule. ANY TIME a player scoops the cue ball, IT IS A FOUL.

Mark