At league I often direct newer players to these videos on your website just for that purpose. If a picture is worth a thousand words, your videos are worth ...:thumbup:
Illegal push shot or not.
- Thread starter PoolBoy1
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At league I often direct newer players to these videos on your website just for that purpose. If a picture is worth a thousand words, your videos are worth ...:thumbup:
I think it is a bad idea to stupidify the players and the game.
In the English games pushing into a touching ball is illegal.
In English 8 ball, a player is permitted to push into the OB when it is not touching, so long as there is no discernible sound of a double hit and that the stroke is natural, such that the cue can't be tracking the CB to change its path. Yes, it's a double hit, but allowed.
Personally I'm for allowing push shots interpreted this way for both close non-touching CB and OB and when they are touching. It allows a creative skill set and use of knowledge that we otherwise are denied of.
One pleasure in the push shot is using SIT or CIT or a combination of these to turn the OB to a pocket and steer the CB to where you want it. It's even more fun when masse' is used. But alas, traditionalists always prefer punishment over opportunity.
In English 8 ball, a player is permitted to push into the OB when it is not touching, so long as there is no discernible sound of a double hit and that the stroke is natural, such that the cue can't be tracking the CB to change its path. Yes, it's a double hit, but allowed.
Personally I'm for allowing push shots interpreted this way for both close non-touching CB and OB and when they are touching. It allows a creative skill set and use of knowledge that we otherwise are denied of.
One pleasure in the push shot is using SIT or CIT or a combination of these to turn the OB to a pocket and steer the CB to where you want it. It's even more fun when masse' is used. But alas, traditionalists always prefer punishment over opportunity.
In snooker a lot of people think that if the CB and OB are nearly touching then anything other than a fine cut must be a push shot (double hit). I couldn't find the precise angle on Dr. Dave's resource page, but from memory at half ball or thinner, the slowing of the CB after collision is not enough for the cue to catch up to the CB.
I guess the weight of cue compared to CB would create some variation. Is there a good summary of this Dave?
I guess the weight of cue compared to CB would create some variation. Is there a good summary of this Dave?
Colin, I think use of the term "pushing" can be misleading here. A better term might be "stroking" or "hitting." High-speed video footage clear shows that hitting into a CB frozen to an OB, with a normal stroke, results in a non-pushing, clean hit, just like any other legal shot. Here's an example:
HSV A.96 - straight-on frozen cue ball shots with various amounts of english
These shots might feel like "push" shots, but they are not. Examples of true "push" shots, which are illegal, can be found in the following videos:
NV B.2 - Mike Page's double hits, push shots, and frozen balls
HSV B.28 - frozen-ball kiss, miscue, and push shots and fouls
Mike Massey trick shot collection
I personally think this is a dangerous path to go down. As soon as you start allowing double hits or push shots or miscues on certain types of shots, you open Pandora's Box for all sorts of abuses of the rules (e.g., where people intentionally use double hits, pushes, and miscues "out of the spirit" of the game).
Regards,
Dave
Many good examples of both how to judge and avoid double hits, including for the situation you describe, can be found in the videos on the double-hit foul resource page. I wish those videos were required viewing for all players and all referees in all cue sports (especially in the American pool league systems). It often shocks me how poorly understood this stuff is by so many people.
Regards,
Dave