I'm Calling Out Jay Helfert...
- Thread starter Fatboy
- Start date
jay helfert said:
I don't know about the title Jay, but a publisher might have some ideas on what would be more likely to pique the interest of the largest number of people.
Also, an author I used to know had a big seller and the way he found a publisher was to do some research. He identified which publisher sold the most books for the genera in which he wrote. Big advantage.
JoeyA said:Jay, you are getting some really good ideas from a lot of people.
Many authors get a big chunk of money up front from the publishers before the book is even written. That is how they get some say-so about how the book is done. Have you had anyone offer any up front decent size dinero to have dibs on working with you on this book?
It seems that more than just a few of us are certain the book will be a winner.
Good luck. Hope someone with deep pockets fronts you a whole bunch of dough and the book sells great and makes a ton of money
JoeyA
I have not approached any publishers yet, mainly because I don't know any. Thanks for the support.
oncepkt said:
Thanks for this tip.
OK, I read the post and saw you didn't mind us getting our 2 cents. ha. I like your thinking and approach to the book.
Some of this has been mentioned.
..the obvious colorful interviews with players. ha Scotty T. comes to mind from the thread about him. Good stuff.
..of course your experiences.
..good artwork. I like that artwork of the forum member here in his avatar.
..your tips for players.
..pics and more pics
..to be really ambitious, a dvd to go with it with interviews, shots, etc.
..maybe a link in the book to your website to sell t shirts, books, etc.
..personal appearances for book signings. I think I recall a post in another thread where someone knows how to set up paid exhibitions. Or I guess you already know how to do this.
Some of this has been mentioned.
..the obvious colorful interviews with players. ha Scotty T. comes to mind from the thread about him. Good stuff.
..of course your experiences.
..good artwork. I like that artwork of the forum member here in his avatar.
..your tips for players.
..pics and more pics
..to be really ambitious, a dvd to go with it with interviews, shots, etc.
..maybe a link in the book to your website to sell t shirts, books, etc.
..personal appearances for book signings. I think I recall a post in another thread where someone knows how to set up paid exhibitions. Or I guess you already know how to do this.
JoeyA said:Jay, you are getting some really good ideas from a lot of people.
Many authors get a big chunk of money up front from the publishers before the book is even written. That is how they get some say-so about how the book is done. Have you had anyone offer any up front decent size dinero to have dibs on working with you on this book?
It seems that more than just a few of us are certain the book will be a winner.
Good luck. Hope someone with deep pockets fronts you a whole bunch of dough and the book sells great and makes a ton of money
JoeyA
A blockbuster hit in the pool world is still just a ripple in mainstream. I'm afraid upfront money is a very very long-shot and I think Jay knows that all too well.
JoeyA said:Jay, you are getting some really good ideas from a lot of people.
Many authors get a big chunk of money up front from the publishers before the book is even written. That is how they get some say-so about how the book is done. Have you had anyone offer any up front decent size dinero to have dibs on working with you on this book?
It seems that more than just a few of us are certain the book will be a winner.
Good luck. Hope someone with deep pockets fronts you a whole bunch of dough and the book sells great and makes a ton of money
JoeyA
I offered him 2 million but he is holding out for more, solid as a rock.
seriously if its done right, not a single book, but several with wide market appeal thats when the $$$ gets big, if its written by a player for players there just isnt a big enough market, this is my business i'm a marketer, I met a telemarketer in the pool hall one night in 93 and never looked back, i was blessed in that business like Efren is in pool, I thank God everyday that I found my talant in life, it isnt pool-I'm a weak A player at best, but in marketing I picked it up like that young boy who is 12 playing right now that I watched in the Normandy tournment and he also took 4th? at the jointed cue, its stone cold luck to find your nitche in life, keith did too for example.
Jay is a ACCURATE encylopedia of pool history that isnt distorted, I have a very good memorie and all of Jays recollections of the past that I know of are 100% accurate, I have only seen 10% of what Jay has and not one time have I seen him say something that was different than I remember it being, its all real not fiction and to me as a player thats huge, he is a man of honor, we all know that what the issue is the general public needs to see him as a billiard historian not some guy writing fiction about smoke filled rooms and con-artists. If he can get the interest and trust of non-pool players there is plenty of real stories that will sell and sell well, to people who arnt players. and thats where the big $$$ is for him, and preservation of the history of the game we love. I hope it works. And I believe it will.
fatboy
Fatboy said:I offered him 2 million but he is holding out for more, solid as a rock.
seriously if its done right, not a single book, but several with wide market appeal thats when the $$$ gets big, if its written by a player for players there just isnt a big enough market, this is my business i'm a marketer, I met a telemarketer in the pool hall one night in 93 and never looked back, i was blessed in that business like Efren is in pool, I thank God everyday that I found my talant in life, it isnt pool-I'm a weak A player at best, but in marketing I picked it up like that young boy who is 12 playing right now that I watched in the Normandy tournment and he also took 4th? at the jointed cue, its stone cold luck to find your nitche in life, keith did too for example.
Jay is a ACCURATE encylopedia of pool history that isnt distorted, I have a very good memorie and all of Jays recollections of the past that I know of are 100% accurate, I have only seen 10% of what Jay has and not one time have I seen him say something that was different than I remember it being, its all real not fiction and to me as a player thats huge, he is a man of honor, we all know that what the issue is the general public needs to see him as a billiard historian not some guy writing fiction about smoke filled rooms and con-artists. If he can get the interest and trust of non-pool players there is plenty of real stories that will sell and sell well, to people who arnt players. and thats where the big $$$ is for him, and preservation of the history of the game we love. I hope it works. And I believe it will.
fatboy
Is that in Venezuelan Bolivar money or American Dollars?
Jay, if he gives it up in American dollars my advice is to take the American dollar offer up front and let Fatboy run.
Just make sure you get a good lawyer to read the contract. JoeyA
Jay Helfert's Chronicle of Pool- AZ Billiards Book Chapter
Who knows, you might be able to strike a contract with Mike if you include a nice chapter on AZ Billiards. He gets nice mentions, you get free advertisement on AZ billiards main web site. Have one of the members design an AD that aggravates the s**t out of the viewer--no - I'm just kidding, a nice simple ad will do. The book has to sell on its own merit.
But seriously, since some of the ideas are being bandied about on AZ, it deserves at least some honorable mention regardless of the deal that the AZ owner might be willing to make. (Keep the deal with Mike, off of the forum and PM mike, PLEASE!) In addition it will probably be good for Mike as it advertises his web site for generations to come.
You could probably get some of our wealthy patrons of this forum to pony up some big bucks for honorable mention although you would have to be conservative in padding the book as far as each of their contributions.
JoeyA
oncepkt said:
Who knows, you might be able to strike a contract with Mike if you include a nice chapter on AZ Billiards. He gets nice mentions, you get free advertisement on AZ billiards main web site. Have one of the members design an AD that aggravates the s**t out of the viewer--no - I'm just kidding, a nice simple ad will do. The book has to sell on its own merit.
But seriously, since some of the ideas are being bandied about on AZ, it deserves at least some honorable mention regardless of the deal that the AZ owner might be willing to make. (Keep the deal with Mike, off of the forum and PM mike, PLEASE!)
In addition it will probably be good for Mike as it advertises his web site for generations to come.You could probably get some of our wealthy patrons of this forum to pony up some big bucks for honorable mention although you would have to be conservative in padding the book as far as each of their contributions.
JoeyA
JoeyA said:Is that in Venezuelan Bolivar money or American Dollars?
Jay, if he gives it up in American dollars my advice is to take the American dollar offer up front and let Fatboy run.
JoeyA
sadly i have more lawyers than OJ.
I really hope Jay does this, i'm only giving him ideas. He is a good friend that i lost touch with years ago, i started this thread just to bust his balls all in good fun/humor. Everyone can thank me later,,, after he writes the book.
if he does no matter what the format it will be a masterpiece. We all talk about who had the best stroke, game, gamble etc, but who is the best historian, in boxing thats very important and well respected, Bert Sugar is one famous boxing historian, well we have them in pool, Mr. Beard, Grady, Jay to name a few off the top of my head and we have to give these guys credit for their contribution and work to remember what they have and taking their time to share it with us-were lucky to have them. Thanks guys.
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Besides the idea of breaking the book up in a series, I was thinking of some other things. I really found the ever changing font style of Dennis Rodman's book quite a joy to read. It was almost like reading on here with some words big, bold, font changes and so forth. It really kept me reading and always feeling like I just started reading some thing new. Of course, the publisher (if it is not yourself) will take all the say in this, but I think it would be a nice way to make every paragraph feel fresh throughout the book and give it more expressionistic tones.
Also, I gotta say oncepkt's idea about the morning shows is just too perfect. A book about gambling, hustling and what really happened, is just the kind of slight "shock" stuff the morning shows eat up to woo their audience's attention. Plus, with you personality, they will know that it will be a hit segment that they can plug the "coming up" thing all morning long and put you on last.
One more thing, my mom (your one-nighter ), actually is a great proofreader and has done so, for many people. I am sure she will help you with this. Plus, she has done the publishing route too. So, between her and Freddie, you should get some good advice. She has a PhD in the creative process and a couple of master's degrees in English, journalism, and I think in creative writing. So she has done her homework, so-to-speak, to be qualified to help out. Plus, she did used to go around to pool halls and watch the action alot with some heavy gambling. So she will know and understand the kind of tones you are trying to express. I hadn't thought about it this far until I started writing this, but I guess she might be perfect for you.
I'll ask her if you think you might be interested in this.
JoeyA is right about the up front money. Do this for you, unless someone else is financially suppurating you to do it. Man, you gotta love this forum, where else can you go to get this kind of support and it costs you nothing. SWEET!
PS: Thanks Fatboy for getting the thread rolling. You just might force Jay into writer's submission with this collective push
Also, I gotta say oncepkt's idea about the morning shows is just too perfect. A book about gambling, hustling and what really happened, is just the kind of slight "shock" stuff the morning shows eat up to woo their audience's attention. Plus, with you personality, they will know that it will be a hit segment that they can plug the "coming up" thing all morning long and put you on last.
One more thing, my mom (your one-nighter
), actually is a great proofreader and has done so, for many people. I am sure she will help you with this. Plus, she has done the publishing route too. So, between her and Freddie, you should get some good advice. She has a PhD in the creative process and a couple of master's degrees in English, journalism, and I think in creative writing. So she has done her homework, so-to-speak, to be qualified to help out. Plus, she did used to go around to pool halls and watch the action alot with some heavy gambling. So she will know and understand the kind of tones you are trying to express. I hadn't thought about it this far until I started writing this, but I guess she might be perfect for you. I'll ask her if you think you might be interested in this.
JoeyA is right about the up front money. Do this for you, unless someone else is financially suppurating you to do it. Man, you gotta love this forum, where else can you go to get this kind of support and it costs you nothing. SWEET!
PS: Thanks Fatboy for getting the thread rolling. You just might force Jay into writer's submission with this collective push
Donovan said:Besides the idea of breaking the book up in a series, I was thinking of some other things. I really found the ever changing font style of Dennis Rodman's book quite a joy to read. It was almost like reading on here with some words big, bold, font changes and so forth. It really kept me reading and always feeling like I just started reading some thing new. Of course, the publisher (if it is not yourself) will take all the say in this, but I think it would be a nice way to make every paragraph feel fresh throughout the book and give it more expressionistic tones.
Also, I gotta say oncepkt's idea about the morning shows is just too perfect. A book about gambling, hustling and what really happened, is just the kind of slight "shock" stuff the morning shows eat up to woo their audience's attention. Plus, with you personality, they will know that it will be a hit segment that they can plug the "coming up" thing all morning long and put you on last.
One more thing, my mom (your one-nighter
I'll ask her if you think you might be interested in this.
JoeyA is right about the up front money. Do this for you, unless someone else is financially suppurating you to do it. Man, you gotta love this forum, where else can you go to get this kind of support and it costs you nothing. SWEET!
PS: Thanks Fatboy for getting the thread rolling. You just might force Jay into writer's submission with this collective push
Thanks Big D. Say hi to your mom for me and tell her I miss her. lol. Keep those good ideas coming. I have had some good help with editing in the past, but another point of view never hurts.
Kevin said:
SWEET!!! I'm writing, I'm writing!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin
I've heard at book signings, girls will gently rub the rest of your hair off for you.
SWEET!!! I'm writing, I'm writing!
With nubbins, what can I say to motivate you more you little old devil you. Or sandpaper?
Pool community expects truths, great stories, or your best recollections thereof, you may have been under the weather somtetimes or not in the best position to relate the full story, but History is being served here, and one appreciated by all members of the forum, not big lies, so tell it like it was as best you saw it then, and some may have different recollections and that is OK, more sides to the story the better IMO. In the end, the real bigger picture of the sport of pool emerges, with all talents, warts, egos, gambling, events, history, chronicling thereof for all to see.
Everybody is a guppy when you are a shark. And there are a hell of a lot of guppies that at one time thought we were sharks.
Originally Posted by Kevin
I've heard at book signings, girls will gently rub the rest of your hair off for you.
SWEET!!! I'm writing, I'm writing!
With nubbins, what can I say to motivate you more you little old devil you. Or sandpaper?
Pool community expects truths, great stories, or your best recollections thereof, you may have been under the weather somtetimes or not in the best position to relate the full story, but History is being served here, and one appreciated by all members of the forum, not big lies, so tell it like it was as best you saw it then, and some may have different recollections and that is OK, more sides to the story the better IMO. In the end, the real bigger picture of the sport of pool emerges, with all talents, warts, egos, gambling, events, history, chronicling thereof for all to see.
Everybody is a guppy when you are a shark. And there are a hell of a lot of guppies that at one time thought we were sharks.
JohnnyP said:
Could be. It was hard to get a word in edgewise with Lon. He was a "mic" hog in those days. That was played in Santa Rosa, CA. C.J. won the Mens title and Vivian won the Womens. Then C.J. played Vivian for the overall title. Big money also. C.J. made like 90K total and Vivian something like 65K.