I'm going to do it!

C

Cajun_Pool

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Hey ya'll! I've been reading this board and I wanted to contribute my journey of opening up a pool hall.

I've found a place with about 2000 sqft leasing for $13.00 per sqft. Doing the math, that works out to about $2800.00 per month.

The cool thing is the location. I pulled some demographic reports from our economic development office and there's over 1500 people between the ages of 25-44 within one mile radius.

I am trying to fit as many tables into the place as I can. I think I can fit 6. What do you guys think?



Should I drop down to four and focus on the food and drink?
 
My 2c
I think the space around the tables is too small. You show 6' from tables to bathroom wall (and looks about the same from tables to front doors).
Reconfiguring by removing 1 table from the top tier and reorienting the other 2 horizontally will allow more space between the bathrooms and front doors. (see image - http://forums.azbilliards.com/gallery/data/500/medium/35834_Pool_Hall_122_930lo.jpg)
This may still be tight and going down to 4 tables may be a better option but refigure your spacing and see what you gain by removing 1 first.
I'd extend the bar and put tv's behind and not have the big screen in the left corner. At $2800 per mo I think you will need a lot of food/drink sales so a longer bar may help.
The light in the darts area (assuming steel tip boards) should be an 8' flourescent fixture with reflector. Mount this from the ceiling on a 45 degree angle towards the boards and at 4' from the wall the boards are mounted on. If you use electronic darts you won't need this light.
Setting up the kitchen will be expensive so you might consider your menu and go for the minimum dimensions to fit the equipment needed.

I don't think you really have the space to be a "pool hall" - but rather a neighborhood bar with pool tables. This may be a better focus. Just a few things to think about. Good luck with your project.
 
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Dartman said:
My 2c
I think the space around the tables is too small. You show 6' from tables to bathroom wall (and looks about the same from tables to front doors).
Reconfiguring by removing 1 table from the top tier and reorienting the other 2 horizontally will allow more space between the bathrooms and front doors. (see image - http://forums.azbilliards.com/gallery/data/500/medium/35834_Pool_Hall_122_930lo.jpg)
This may still be tight and going down to 4 tables may be a better option but refigure your spacing and see what you gain by removing 1 first.
I'd extend the bar and put tv's behind and not have the big screen in the left corner. At $2800 per mo I think you will need a lot of food/drink sales so a longer bar may help.
The light in the darts area (assuming steel tip boards) should be an 8' flourescent fixture with reflector. Mount this from the ceiling on a 45 degree angle towards the boards and at 4' from the wall the boards are mounted on. If you use electronic darts you won't need this light.
Setting up the kitchen will be expensive so you might consider your menu and go for the minimum dimensions to fit the equipment needed.

I don't think you really have the space to be a "pool hall" - but rather a neighborhood bar with pool tables. This may be a better focus. Just a few things to think about. Good luck with your project.
Click to expand...

WOW, I never considered five tables. I had it stuck in my head that there needed to be an even number.

Thanks for the tips. I modified the layout with four and then again with five. I may even need to eliminate the darts area put up two walls and turn that into a stock room. I don't have a lot of space for storage.

I shoot APA and I've been to plenty of bars where they only have two tables. I'm leaning towards the 4 table layout.




Edit: I'm meeting with the bank Monday morning. I'm going to try to do this with a 50K loan. I've over analyzed almost everything and got prices on all the equipment, tables, etc. I've also been in contact with the ATF and the local Fire Marshall. Doing all the red tape to make sure I'm up to code is a headache. Necessary, but a headache non the less.
 
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I am not currently a room owner (but will be in the next 7 years, after saving some money), but here's my two cents. Like Dartman said, this is more a bar with pool tables and there is nothing wrong with that.

I like the 4 table layout the best. You definitely want seating for the players, especially on league night. The worst bars to play in are the ones with tables and chairs too far from the playing table. Should you notice that 4 tables are too much and have a demand for kareoke (sp?), you could schuffle things around to meet you needs.

Keep us posted with the progress, some of us (me) will benefit from it.
Thanks,
Mattman
 
Dartman is 100% on the money, you will need to be a sportsbar with pool tables , main focus booze and food. It appears by your layouts you posted that you are using a 4ft. table width , which would be about a 7ft. pool table. Myself, I would go with the 5 table layout, using non coin-op 7 footers and charge $4 per hour for any number of players. I saw a place here do the conversion from coin-op to commercial drop pocket 7footers and charge $4 any number of players with great success. I would consider making that table by the dart area a 9 footer for the purists. Best of luck!
 
Keep you posted? Sure thing. I like documenting stuff along the way.

I have a three phase business plan.

1) Collect underpants.
2) ??
3) Profit.


Ha! I couldn't resist.

Seriously... here's my plans and where I am now.


1) Write a business plan. And calculate start up expenses. Done!
2) Make an appt with the bank. Done! (This is where a good business plan comes into play.) Monday @ 1:30.

Assuming things go well at the bank...

3) Meet with ATF agent on Tuesday to go over my application for a liquor license. (You MUST be interviewed by an agent before you are granted a license)
4) Go to our City Planners office to give a site plan describing the modifications to the building. (Cost $100.00 for the plan review)
5) Submit a copy of the site plan to the state.
6) Submit plans and apply for Board Of Health certificate.
7) Sign the lease agreement with the owner.
8) Order equipment.
9) Stain the concrete floor. (I need ideas on something eye-catching)
10) Start remodeling.
11) Sign contract with local amusement company and set up tables, jukebox, and video game.
12) Decide on and print up menus.
13) Open account with local liquor and beer distributors.
14) Open for business.

If I don't run into any road blocks along the way, I'm thinking I could be open by December 1st.
 
#11 - I would not use a vendor for your tables, buy your own tables even if used tables.
 
selftaut said:
#11 - I would not use a vendor for your tables, buy your own tables even if used tables.
Click to expand...

If the finances allow it I will. Look at that Excel sheet I linked in my earlier post.


And no, Strokerz, I haven't planned on selling merchandise.
 
Cajun_Pool said:
If the finances allow it I will. Look at that Excel sheet I linked in my earlier post.


And no, Strokerz, I haven't planned on selling merchandise.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't use a vendor either. If you buy your own tables, your business collects 100% of the money from those tables. If you sign a contract with a vendor, you will split the money. The jukebox peope will already have their hand in one of your pockets... why have a vendor digging in the other one? I'd recommend that you get your own tables - no matter how it inflates your start-up costs. You won't regret it.
 
Blackjack said:
I wouldn't use a vendor either. If you buy your own tables, your business collects 100% of the money from those tables. If you sign a contract with a vendor, you will split the money. The jukebox peope will already have their hand in one of your pockets... why have a vendor digging in the other one? I'd recommend that you get your own tables - no matter how it inflates your start-up costs. You won't regret it.
Click to expand...

Crap crap crap, you guys are going to make me buy some tables aren't you. I really want to but it's the unknown that scares the hell out of me. What if the bar & grill takes off but the pool doesn't?

I was quoted $2,650.00 for a brand new Valley Dynamo coin op. I prefer coin-ops over rental because it's one thing less to manage.

Ok, ok! I'll see if I can swing it.


Edit: Anyone have a distributor where I can buy those same tables cheaper?
 
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You can pick up used coin-ops for around $1,000 each, IMO that is the way to go if your mind is made up on coin-ops, spend another few hundred on new cloths and recover them, and you will get a return in the long run, plus you will have control of your cash flow and maintanance. Here is just one place to pick them up ,http://www.homearcades.com/used_pool_tables.htm , but they are around for sale if you do some homework.
 
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selftaut said:
You can pick up used coin-ops for around $1,000 each, IMO that is the way to go if your mind is made up on coin-ops, spend another few hundred on new cloths and recover them, and you will get a return in the long run, plus you will have control of your cash flow and maintanance. Here is just one place to pick them up ,http://www.homearcades.com/used_pool_tables.htm , but they are around for sale if you do some homework.
Click to expand...
I checked that site out and called them. Its too much to deliver to where I'm at. So, I called the local vendor here in town and asked them if they sold used coin-op tables. He said yes, but they take the coin-op feature out of them and make them into return tables.

If I got those, would it be possible to buy the coin-op mechanism somewhere?
 
A couple of questions

It would be helpful to know where this will be located as every part of the country is different.
You did not mention it but can I assume you already went to the city council and or planners to ask if they have any concerns about your type of business. In some areas of the country they have barred new liquor establishments especially if they are near schools.

I just recently bought 2 nice bar boxes from my vendor for 800 apiece. He did not want to remove the coin op's. That is wierd. But yes, I do not think you would have a problem finding someone that can do that. What is his reasoning.

I always feel food service in a business should be in front near the entrance. Odor for one thing and as soon as you walk in the door people know you got juicy burgers or whatever.
This sounds like a better endeavor as a sports bar so add another t.v. behind the bar to have at least 2.
If you do get a jukebox I suggest the internet one.
Your kitchen idea is great but as you should know it will be your most difficult part to turn a profit. I might suggest what I changed to a few years ago and that was a self enclosed, selfcontained, deep fryer.
It has its own ansul system, ventilation out the top and runs pretty efficient. Ours you can only cook one order at a time but they have onesthat you can use two baskets at once. I run a 7000 sq. ft. room and I can pretty much put it out pretty fast when I get hammered.
Of course if you have wings/fries combo you can cook at once. We have fries, chicken wings and strips, onion rings, cheese sticks, mushrooms, etc etc.
 
Cajun_Pool said:
I checked that site out and called them. Its too much to deliver to where I'm at. So, I called the local vendor here in town and asked them if they sold used coin-op tables. He said yes, but they take the coin-op feature out of them and make them into return tables.

If I got those, would it be possible to buy the coin-op mechanism somewhere?
Click to expand...

Call up several of the vendors in your area and see which one wants to put the Digital Jukebox & Megatouches on the bar. You can be sure they will be very eager. Then see which one will sell you 4 tables with coin mechs. Seller of tables gets the account.
 
Call me, I might be able to get you financed for 5 Diamond 7ft Smart Tables....one thing I don't think you want to be when you open, and that's offering the same bar tables to play on that everyone else is offering as well. Not much up front cost to get Diamonds, and you own them at the end of the contract, and during the finance contract, you keep all the money.

Glen
 
selftaut said:
Dartman is 100% on the money, you will need to be a sportsbar with pool tables , main focus booze and food. It appears by your layouts you posted that you are using a 4ft. table width , which would be about a 7ft. pool table. Myself, I would go with the 5 table layout, using non coin-op 7 footers and charge $4 per hour for any number of players. I saw a place here do the conversion from coin-op to commercial drop pocket 7footers and charge $4 any number of players with great success. I would consider making that table by the dart area a 9 footer for the purists. Best of luck!
Click to expand...
Hourly rental tables in a bar environment on a Friday and Saturday night only average 3 players to a table, and not all of them are drinking! Someone has to sign out the balls and that's a pain in the but, AND...when it's their table, they don't have to let anyone challenge it. And when the tables are full, it creates a waiting list for the players that want to rent the table for themselves and no one else. Coin-operated tables on the other hand, will take care of anywhere from 10 to 15 players each challenging the tables. That's at least 3 to 5 times more people drinking and eating waiting to play the tables.

My rule of thumb is this, Hourly rental tables = Higher table income, lower food and alcohol sales.

Coin-operated tables = Lower table income, much higher food and alcohol sales.

Question: What is the main point of sales in a bar? Food and drinks...or pool table income?

Just my 25 years of experience, that's all.

Glen
 
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It looks so good on paper

Hi, in every state the liquor laws are diferent. In every state there is also someone who teaches a class (usually one day or less) on your states laws. Selling liquor has a great effect on your average tab totals.

Before you sign your lease make sure there is a no compete claus in the contract. Don't write your own contract or use your landlords. Most atty's will write you one for a couple of hundred or less. Try to lock in as many renewal options as possible (at the same rate of course), find out about ugly things like triple-net and properity taxes. You probably won't find all the monsters but its good to be aware of as many as you can.

One tuff thing to do is "Decide on your age limits" and stick to it. If you allow all ages people will use your place instead of a baby sitter. This is no joking matter, they will give each kid $2 and come back for them in 4 or 6 hours. Also adults don't like to go somewhere where there are alot of kids, they are probably paying someone to get rid of theirs for awhile. Over 21 is the best from a profit standpoint.

You will discover lots more but its still alot of fun.

Orion
 
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