I'm going to do it!

I found 2 more cents on the floor so passing them on -

The age demographic you mentioned is insufficient data. What type are these 25-44 yr olds? Blue collar football fans? Martini drinking lawyers? What % of the 1500 is female? The reason I mention this is that if you can nail down a focus for your place you stand a better chance of drawing a specific type customer in the door. Once you do your homework on the market you can decide what your place should offer. Ideally you want to offer something the other bars in the immediate area do not.

You can differentiate your place in a lot of ways - decor, type (and quality) of food, bar offerings and pricing, better pool tables, ntn, hotter bar staff, and so on. Get around to the other establishments within a half mile of yours and get a feel for how you can do it better - in other words - what's your drawing card. I'd suggest getting the marketing plan pinned down and let it determine what you need to get in terms of equipment especially since your place isn't very big.

Owning your own equipment is the best choice "once" you're established and turning a profit. Just starting out you can opt to bring in equipment from an amusement operator at a 50/50 split. Keep in mind you can call them at any time and have them remove the equipment so you can put in your own. Good amusement operators can do more then just provide equipment and can help drive business to your place so check them out at least before making major expenditures.

IMO trying to open by Dec 1 seems premature given all you need to do. Understandably you probably need to lock in the building lease. Keep in mind anything you nail to the floor or walls belongs to the building owner so you would be wise to have a long chat with them about your plans. See if you can negotiate a free month or some $ concessions to allow you more time to get the place setup. The worst they can say is no but you get nothing unless you ask.
 
I agree with Glen, You should check with Diamond about smart tables, I'mm sure you could get financed through your bank or Diamond. For the price you were quoted on the Dynamo I would really consider checking into it.
 
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Dartman's comments reminded me of one other think. If this location is in a strip mall, check with the landlord to make sure that no one else has a contract prohibiting any one else at that location from selling alcohol, like you...comming in as a new tenant.

Glen

PS, check to see how close the nearest school or church is as well, most states restrict alcohol sales within a certain distance from both.
 
Thanks for the info! You guys give me confidence that I'm not going to miss any huge issues that may arise later. It was a lot to digest but I'll try to respond to all the questions as best I can. Bear with me.

Dartman said:
The age demographic you mentioned is insufficient data.
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I guess I didn't explain that right. Actually the demographics reports contained WAY more data than I could process in my little pea brain. I zipped up the PDF files of the demographics. Some of these figures don't make much sense to me.

After reading all the posts about the pros and cons of owning your own tables, I agree. It is a great advantage to having them. The issue was money. (Isn't it always?) I'm trying to get in this with the least ammount of start-up capital as I can while maintaining a touch of class in the new place. If owning my own tables immediately isn't in the budget, I have a back up plan. A friend of mine proposed an agreement where he would finance the purchase of the new tables for 50% return on his money.

We would structure it like this... he would supply the tables. We would split the table money until he is paid off plus 50%. Then ownership changes to me. Its a win-win for us both. Just curious... what is a good average monthly income of a coin-op table?

And Glen, thanks for the offer, but I'm going to go with the Valley Dynamo tables.

Orion said:
Before you sign your lease make sure there is a no compete claus in the contract. Don't write your own contract or use your landlords. Most atty's will write you one for a couple of hundred or less. Try to lock in as many renewal options as possible (at the same rate of course), find out about ugly things like triple-net and properity taxes. You probably won't find all the monsters but its good to be aware of as many as you can.
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Interesting! I'm supposed to get a copy of the lease agreement emailed to me this week. I'll be sure to look for these things.

nfty9er said:
It would be helpful to know where this will be located as every part of the country is different.
You did not mention it but can I assume you already went to the city council and or planners to ask if they have any concerns about your type of business. In some areas of the country they have barred new liquor establishments especially if they are near schools.
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Yes, I had an initial meeting with the City Planner. I showed him the layout and the location and he found it on his map and told me there was no issues regarding schools, churches, etc... The building is only a few weeks old. He actually remembered the place from dealing with the new construction. He gave me an Application For Commercial Plan Review and told me to fill it out and come back with my modification plans. He said he still had all the site plans from the new construction and he would just give me those to send to the state. Cool.

After I talked to him for a while, I asked him if he thought that kind of business would take off right there. He told me "Oh yeah, No problem"

I have a meeting with the bank today at 1:30 CST. I'll keep you guys up to date.
 
Not that it is a big deal

Cajun_Pool said:
Thanks for the info! You guys give me confidence that I'm not going to miss any huge issues that may arise later. It was a lot to digest but I'll try to respond to all the questions as best I can. Bear with me.



I guess I didn't explain that right. Actually the demographics reports contained WAY more data than I could process in my little pea brain. I zipped up the PDF files of the demographics. Some of these figures don't make much sense to me.

After reading all the posts about the pros and cons of owning your own tables, I agree. It is a great advantage to having them. The issue was money. (Isn't it always?) I'm trying to get in this with the least ammount of start-up capital as I can while maintaining a touch of class in the new place. If owning my own tables immediately isn't in the budget, I have a back up plan. A friend of mine proposed an agreement where he would finance the purchase of the new tables for 50% return on his money.

We would structure it like this... he would supply the tables. We would split the table money until he is paid off plus 50%. Then ownership changes to me. Its a win-win for us both. Just curious... what is a good average monthly income of a coin-op table?

And Glen, thanks for the offer, but I'm going to go with the Valley Dynamo tables.



Interesting! I'm supposed to get a copy of the lease agreement emailed to me this week. I'll be sure to look for these things.



Yes, I had an initial meeting with the City Planner. I showed him the layout and the location and he found it on his map and told me there was no issues regarding schools, churches, etc... The building is only a few weeks old. He actually remembered the place from dealing with the new construction. He gave me an Application For Commercial Plan Review and told me to fill it out and come back with my modification plans. He said he still had all the site plans from the new construction and he would just give me those to send to the state. Cool.

After I talked to him for a while, I asked him if he thought that kind of business would take off right there. He told me "Oh yeah, No problem"

I have a meeting with the bank today at 1:30 CST. I'll keep you guys up to date.
Click to expand...

But u still did not mention your location. I assume somewhere in La. going by your screen name.
 
I was looking at your excel sheet last night and thought of a couple things, but not sure if you could swing it. I noticed that you had a beer cooler on your list of expenses. Reminds me being in a Buffalo Wild Wings (franchise similar to Hooters) last week. I noticed that they had beer coolers with a display of Budweiser above the door. My friend and I discussed it and came to the conclusion that Budweiser probably are just leasing them out at no charge, provided that you are offering their beer. No different than them (Budweiser/Coors) setting up your tap system at no charge.

Also, I noticed that you are buying your icemaker for around $1700. This item might be abled to be leased out as well...and maybe with an option to buy, similar to your pool tables. When the owner on my local watering hole told me that she leased her icemaker, I thought it was insane. Then she told me that it has broke down 4 or 5 times (not sure in what kind of time frame) and since it was being leased, repairs were included in the lease. Possibly the reason it broke down so many times is because she doesn't use a beer cooler (fridge). She ices EVERYTHING (beer) down, so that icemaker is in constant use.

Just a couple things you might consider.
Mattman
 
One thing I don't see is how you are going to pay yourself... The business will not be highly profitable out of the gate, and you'll need to invest your initial earnings back into your business...

Typically people who startup their own business will include their first 12-18 months of salary into their loan... Might want to think that one over.
 
nfty9er said:
But u still did not mention your location. I assume somewhere in La. going by your screen name.
Click to expand...

If you're familiar with the area, it's just off Kaliste Saloom Road in Lafayette, LA. High traffic area.


mattman said:
My friend and I discussed it and came to the conclusion that Budweiser probably are just leasing them out at no charge, provided that you are offering their beer. No different than them (Budweiser/Coors) setting up your tap system at no charge.
Mattman
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I never even considered contacting the beer distributor for freebies and discounts along those lines. I anticipated getting the table lights for free and maybe some nice neon signs but I never thought about coolers. Thanks.

1pRoscoe said:
One thing I don't see is how you are going to pay yourself... The business will not be highly profitable out of the gate, and you'll need to invest your initial earnings back into your business...

Typically people who startup their own business will include their first 12-18 months of salary into their loan... Might want to think that one over.
Click to expand...

Exactamundo. I don't expect it to be profitable for at least 6 months. I have a full time job that pays my bills. I will be hiring to make up for the time I can't spend at the bar. And if it ever does take off, I'll quit and move over to the bar full time. Time will tell.
 
1pRoscoe said:
Wisest thing I've read here thus far.... what did the bank say?
Click to expand...

I sat down with the small business banker dood this afternoon. I gave him the demographics, my resume', and a business plan. We proceeded to fill out the loan application right there on his desk. We structured it as 30K secured loan with 20K in a line of credit. 50K total.

He said we'll know something by tomorrow or Wednesday.
 
Cajun_Pool said:
I never even considered contacting the beer distributor for freebies and discounts along those lines. I anticipated getting the table lights for free and maybe some nice neon signs but I never thought about coolers.
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Bud and Miller distributors are qood for table lights, neons and various other marketing tools like table tents, tap handles, signs, banners, etc. In most cases if you shut down they will take most of the hard items back. To my knowledge they do not provide coolers and co2 tanks but can run the tap lines and basically help set up and maintain your draft system.

In our bar we sold long necks (no draft) and used several troughs with a drip drain - each of which each held 8 cases. When packed down with ice the beer doesn't get and colder so a high capacity ice machine was essential. Draft has good markup but requires maintenance, cooler space, a food permit and is a pain for accounting and inventory.
 
*UPDATE*

I met with an agent from the ATF yesterday afternoon to make sure I'm on the right track to get the liquor license. He gave me a checklist of things I need to do and the order in which they need to be done. I'll summarize.

I'll be applying for the LCC Ownership, Class AG (No one under 18 allowed)

1) Place a notarized poster in the window of the new place telling the public that I'm going to be committing sins by selling alcohol. The Dept Of Revenue actually gives you a big blue poster and requires you to display it for 15 days prior to submitting the application.

2) Submit the State Alcohol Permit I have that filled out and ready to go as soon as the 15 days is up.

3) Submit a Schedule "A" application that states who will be the manager. He also told me that a manager had to physically be at the bar when we're open. That means if I'm not there I'm going to have to designate someone else as manager and submit additional forms for them.

4) Place an ad in the local newspaper stating that I'm about to start sinning by selling alcohol in the place.

5) Submit a copy of the LLC charter. I'm going to file for the LLC as soon as I get the financing cleared.

6) Submit a copy of the Article Of Incorporation.

7) Submit a copy of the lease. He gave me a tip on not screwing up the liquor application: He said to MAKE SURE the addresses matched exactly. If they were off by one comma the state would kick it back.

8) Get a local alcohol permit. (I haven't found out what this is going to cost yet)

9) Submit a fingerprint card. He gave me a form to take down to the local sheriff's dept.

10) Submit a diagram of the premises.

11) Pay $420.00 to the state.
 
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Sorry to double post but I have another update.

I went to the bank Monday and the banker told me he would know if the loan goes through in a day or two. I just got off the phone with his secretary and she tells me she was waiting on me to fax over my 2006 tax return. WHICH I FAXED ON MONDAY!

I asked her, So you haven't submitted it yet? She said No, I can't without the return.

AAAARRRRGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!

Two more days of waiting. The stress is killing me.
 
I've read all the posts in this thread (I think) and I commend you and wish you the best of luck. I would like to throw my 2 cents in and take it for what it's worth.

From a players point of view...
I would like to play for a league team with a home bar that takes care of our team. We have our own set of balls, rack and chalk just for league night. I would like to have a well maintained and level table, preferably one that doesn't get moved to make room for kareoke, DJ, bands and other things. I like to have nice sitting area for my team and the visiting team and of course a good looking and hard working staff on league nights.

From an owners point of view...
I would want a comfortable place for customers to eat, drink, socialize, play pool, darts, listen to music and keep coming back and bringing new customers with them. I want to get the most bang for my buck in the space I have available.

Thinking of these things, if I were you I would consider 4 tables max. Keep 1-2 of them covered for league players only. They are only used on league night or team practice night. Buy the tables yourself, or lease them if possible, do not have a vendor bring them in. I think that you'll lose a lot of money by having them brought in by a vendor and you'll have more flexiblilty if you own them. Focus on the bar and a small grill. Don't go overboard on the menu, just keep in simple and have daily specials aside from the main menu. You have to find something that only you have on a certain night and keep the people coming back. Take care of your regulars and spoil your league players. Don't run specials that will draw a huge crowd on league night, let you league players have their space and they will spend the money if you treat them right.

I own a small pro-shop with one 8' table. It's 1,000 sq', I build/repair cues, give lessons, sell billiards merchandise (cues, cases, accessories, apparel), run an in house 14.1 league, run Zim's Rack 8-Ball League and the Gateway Amateur Tour. I've been opened since June 1, 2007, business has been pretty slow, but it's starting to pick up. We started with $10,000 of our own money and quickly put another $3,000-$5,000 into it since June. We own everything you can see in the pro-shop. One thing I didn't do is figure in my salary, which is hurting us a little now.

Good luck and keep us posted!
Zim
www.zimsrack.com
 
Cajun_Pool said:
Hey ya'll! I've been reading this board and I wanted to contribute my journey of opening up a pool hall.

I've found a place with about 2000 sqft leasing for $13.00 per sqft. Doing the math, that works out to about $2800.00 per month.

[...]
Click to expand...

When I do the math I get closer to $2200 per month
 
Once you get the loan and you know it's a done deal, talk to your beer distributor about getting a banner made for you. There is a pool hall here that moved to the south side. Two new owner are opening the old building and a pool hall. I noticed a sign out front that is sponsored by budweiser and says, "J & K Billiards Coming Soon". This will help get the word out BEFORE you actually open your doors.

Did your loan go through yet?
 
Thanks for the support guys!

Here's the Monday morning update:

My stomach has been in knots since Wednesday of last week. I'm STILL waiting to hear from the bank. I called them last Friday and was told the bank processed everything with no problems, they had sent it out to see which underwriter wanted to pick it up. (Apparently the bank only acts as an intermediary for investments) Go figure.

I'm leaning so far forward on this. As soon as I hear the financing is a go I'm going to form an LLC. That takes about 3 weeks to return. Then the lease agreement. Then the liquor license. Then the board of health application. And While I'm waiting on all that to come back I'll be remodeling the place and ordering equipment.

What really has me in a pickle is my realtor, I got an email from her pressuring me to hurry up and sign the lease because she has other people interested. I offered her a down payment but after we talked on the phone I convinced her I was still on track and she said it wasn't necessary. (I will be more than pissed if she leases this out from under me)

It looks good. It's just a waiting game right now.

Edit: I sent an email to the investment banker this morning asking him where we stand. I got this response: "I expect an answer today."
 
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mikepage said:
When I do the math I get closer to $2200 per month
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I stand corrected. $2166.67 per month for a 2000 sq ft lease to be exact.

I'm not entirely sure it's exactly 2000 sq ft. Its in that ballpark and I was being liberal in my budget.

I just saved $633.33 per month! :)
 
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