I'm Gonna Catch Heat For This...

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
First off let me me 100% CLEAR I have no love, like, personal interest or anything for KT, he is a bad dishonest guy like it says in the other thread. I never spoke to him or have met him.

I have worked in and known many people in his kind of biz since 93,I'm still in marketing same gig since 96, i'm legit, i would have got popped years ago, you cant run a bad shop for that long and not get caught but thats me not him. KT's are not legit-thats why he awalys has something new, he will sell anything for money, remember the Mega-Memorie? It was over 10 years ago KT was selling that, he has been going at it for along time, there are good businesses that have stole from him his marketing tecniques to sell legit products. I'm glad they stole from him. He is reguarded as a marketing prodogity and genious (SP?) in the marketing biz.

But....Heres where I'm gonna catch some heat.

KT dosent have a concience...that had to be said first.

Here it is:

KT dosent do any business that isnt successful. If it fails he bails. I believe that he believed the pool tour was going to work, When he lost his ass and advertizers which are the revinue stream he bailed,




He had 2 jobs to organize the whole thing 1. Get Players 2. Sell enough advertizing to make it work.

1. He got the players by dangling the golden carrot, easy enough, he like most sales men B.S. and said "I'm a player too" but it didnt hurt anyone.(saying he is a player). Like a car calesman saying he drives what he is selling, so what.

2. He needed $$$ to make it run, he had a budget when he started(my assumption) it like any good businessman, good in the sence that he is skilled in business, not moraly good. When online gaming collapsed that was the death blow, Chalk-Off and Sardo cant support what KT wanted to do....something big, he needed online gaming like NASCAR needs Budweiser. In the UK 888.com and other online gaming companys are the stake horses in big venues, big $$$ snooker. So after he blew his own $$$ he was done, greanted at the expence of the players. But the players had the same intentions as KT they didnt get in stroke to go play for free, they came to win like KT.


Having said that I believe even though KT is a POS I really believed he wanted this to work but would only fire only so many barrels until he was done and couldnt find a backer so he pulled up. Is it right? yes in the business world it is, we pull out of games if were losing(granted we pay the last set) . To keep it in pool terms he fired an air barrel on the last set which is never acceptable to put it lightly.


However I truely believe he started the whole thing with good intentions because the thought he could make a pile of $$$ and make it big, it has the same demographic as poker whitch was blowing up at that time on TV, pool dosent have a Don king(Bad guy too) but at least Don makes events come off and boxers $$$. So pool was a easy desperate sport to make big cheaply, hell darts would cost more to take over. So KT saw a cheap way to take something big and it failed. Thus he bailed out. In his defence and I dont know all the details about what is owed to who, whats wrong with closing up shop-I lost a business once that forced me to bankruptcy. The people I didnt pay hated me but I had no choice. So I understand his decision. There isnt a pool players union to guarantee anything.

I hate the fact he whored out our community of the most under paid professionals of any sport, game in the world. I know what it takes to become a pro in this game a life long commitment, in most cases.

I hate the fact it didnt work.

It wasnt 100% KT's fault it failed. (To the best of my knowlege, why would he cause it to fail unless he stole alot of $$$)

Look at his other things he is a successful person and if he didnt believe his pool tour wasnt going to be successful he wouldnt have spent a dime on it or wasted his time. To the best of my knowlege its not like he rat holed alot of $$$ and left town. If he did do that then yeah lets find him and hang him. If it was a business failure then at least he gave it a shot. I heard he owes people $$$, I did to when I went down and didnt pay, I have been owed $$$ and didnt collect-it sucks but again its a cold world out and nothing is for sure...


Please understand i'm not defending him, but its getting old hearing everyone act like they are a victim of fraud on this mess, even if everyone is, move on. I have been beat so bad because I matched up wrong it was rediclous and lost more than I should have(I also learned how to match up next time, i didnt give up playing or claim who beat me ruined my life and i'm never gonna play again-Tony Watson comes to mind in Reno in the late 80's, wow I got robbed-I never had a shot litterly, but thats another story). KT is a POS no doubt but its over-move on, I just dont play Tony anymore. I just outlined one reason why it could have ended, perhaps i'm 100% wrong but we need to move on weather i'm right or wrong. I'm a businessman, never had a job so this looks clear to me, it might not to people who arnt in business-not a knock just 2 different perspectives.


One more thing if KT wanted to rob a sport why would he pick pool? he would go where there is some big $$ he could scam.


If I ever started something like KY did and I'm not implying I am but if I did I would have a budget to make sure that the first 3 or 4 events everyone got paid. The $$ would be visable in an escrow account, if after that it didnt work I'd leave too but I wouldnt leave anyone hanging on waiting to get paid. I dont operate like that, that was KT problem he fired an air barrel hoping to collect $$$. He made promises before he collected and got caught. POS end of story
 
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I'm not so sure that you will catch heat for this post, I believe that many here agree with you. In my opinion his buddy Mike convinced him that this could be a viable profesisonal sports franchise business, and we all know how famous professional sports owners can become. If the IPT were successful he would join the ranks of folks like Bernie Ecclestone and Mark Cuban, something that would be very desireable for a personality like KT, imo (it seems like he likes to be on TV ;) ). That seems to be the weakness of folks like KT, sometimes they start to believe themselves and ignore reality, which can be risky.

Dave, not rich, not famous, but has a fun time playing pool :)
 
No doubt he expected it to be profitable, that doesn't mean he has a conscience. But like you said, he's a POS so I don't think anyone's disagreeing, you're just giving him too much credit by even saying that.

Look at all the other stuff he's selling, he knows damn well it's crap.
 
Francisco Bustamante told me in December 2005 that coming in fourth place and pocketing $80,000, it was the most money he has ever won in his entire life at a pool tournament. He was a happy camper.

Say what you want about Trudeau and the IPT, but there are some pool players who got paid more monies at the IPT events than anywhere else.

Most pool players who did participate in any IPT event were amazed to see actual green rooms with lounge chairs for the players, buffets of free food, free Fiji bottled water to all comers, masseuses for the players between rounds, and goodie bags at each event, one of which is depicted below. Then there was the Internet Cafe which had multiple computers hooked up to high-speed Internet for anyone to use, again, free of charge. BCA Hall of Famers, who don't seem to receive any monetary benefit from their induction into the BCA's Hall of Fame, each received $30,000 from Kevin Trudeau, his way of showing tribute to the great ones of the sport.

Pool players were united for the first time in the history of pool, and players who left the tournament trail years ago decided to come out of the woodwork, wanting to compete on the IPT tournament trail.

Each IPT event was first class in every respect. Most pool players who have been in this racket for many years have experienced disappointments in the past from organizations which have come and gone. However, these same veteran players aren't angry at Kevin Trudeau one iota. They recognize the tens of millions of dollars he forked out to date.

Trudeau hasn't washed his hands of pool, though if I were him, I would not even think about keeping the IPT vision alive anymore. Fortunately, the naysayers haven't run him off. The checks are still rolling in, and I envision a run on crow pies in the near future for the Kevin Trudeau bashers.

Here's a little trip down IPT Memory Lane: http://www.hometown.aol.com/jamalloy/IPTVenetian.html

JAM
 

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Jam, what about the moral issue with this. Some poolplayers were paid and that was great....but they were paid in monies earned through Trudeau's lies, snail oil gimmericky, etc. Desperate people buying into his lies, making him MILLIONS. How could you accept dirty money like that?

Ooopss...we're talking about pool players. Nevermind.

(Sorry, couldn't resist).
 
PKM said:
Look at all the other stuff he's selling, he knows damn well it's crap.


Mark my words he knows how the FTC works, so do I, but he will get popped big time messing around with weight loss, thats the #1 target of the FTC now and he is in the cross hairs. I'm surprised he is even pitching that stuff. Its a complicated business, I'm in a marketing gig like he does the difference is I have done the same thing for 11 years, he makes a quick score and changes products and the weight loss stuff will get him in trouble. It will be fun to watch him go down, i will post links when he does.

The sad thing is smart as he is he could still make millions if he sold legit stuff, why he pushes it to the edge of the law makes no sence. he will get popped its when, not if. and since he is a recivist(meaning he has had heat before) they will crush him next time around, thats how the Govt operates.
 
Matt_24 said:
How could you accept dirty money like that? Ooopss...we're talking about pool players. Nevermind.

(Sorry, couldn't resist).

It's easy to sit on the rail like a nit, taking cheap shots at pool players, like the above-referenced comment. Champion pool players' eyes look on heights beyond yours and my gaze. It is the look of a spirit that can soar, an air of freedom unconquerable, and as such, it is their right to play pool anywhere they feel like it. While champion-caliber players are scrambling around the world, scraping for crumbs, they continue on and try to be all that they can be, the ultimate goal being that precious almighty win. Without them, there would be no sport. Give them the proper dues they deserve instead of ridiculing them as if they're Kling-ons visiting the Starship Enterprise.

JAM
 
i agree JAM well said. bottom line is the IPT in it's short time was the best thing to ever happen to pool, and KT forked out a hell of a lot to make it happen. with a bit of luck we haven't seen the end of the IPT just yet.

also, i don't believe that KT is such an evil man. people banging on about his weight loss book accusing him of being a scumbag etc. he may be exaggerating the extent at which the content of his book will change the world, but that's normal for any salesperson. and it's probably just full of sensible, logical information too. a book's worth of words just to say "eat a healthy diet" eat this food, that food etc.

the way he is hated on this board is just silly imo.
 
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worriedbeef said:
...the way he is hated on this board is just silly imo.

You are 'da man, WorriedBeef. Bravo to you for telling it like it really is! :)

JAM
 
Fatboy said:
First off let me me 100% CLEAR I have no love, like, personal interest or anything for KT, he is a bad dishonest guy like it says in the other thread. I never spoke to him or have met him.

I have worked in and known many people in his kind of biz since 93,I'm still in marketing same gig since 96, i'm legit, i would have got popped years ago, you cant run a bad shop for that long and not get caught but thats me not him. KT's are not legit-thats why he awalys has something new, he will sell anything for money, remember the Mega-Memorie? It was over 10 years ago KT was selling that, he has been going at it for along time, there are good businesses that have stole from him his marketing tecniques to sell legit products. I'm glad they stole from him. He is reguarded as a marketing prodogity and genious (SP?) in the marketing biz.

But....Heres where I'm gonna catch some heat.

KT dosent have a concience...that had to be said first.

Here it is:

KT dosent do any business that isnt successful. If it fails he bails. I believe that he believed the pool tour was going to work, When he lost his ass and advertizers which are the revinue stream he bailed,




He had 2 jobs to organize the whole thing 1. Get Players 2. Sell enough advertizing to make it work.

1. He got the players by dangling the golden carrot, easy enough, he like most sales men B.S. and said "I'm a player too" but it didnt hurt anyone.(saying he is a player). Like a car calesman saying he drives what he is selling, so what.

2. He needed $$$ to make it run, he had a budget when he started(my assumption) it like any good businessman, good in the sence that he is skilled in business, not moraly good. When online gaming collapsed that was the death blow, Chalk-Off and Sardo cant support what KT wanted to do....something big, he needed online gaming like NASCAR needs Budweiser. In the UK 888.com and other online gaming companys are the stake horses in big venues, big $$$ snooker. So after he blew his own $$$ he was done, greanted at the expence of the players. But the players had the same intentions as KT they didnt get in stroke to go play for free, they came to win like KT.


Having said that I believe even though KT is a POS I really believed he wanted this to work but would only fire only so many barrels until he was done and couldnt find a backer so he pulled up. Is it right? yes in the business world it is, we pull out of games if were losing(granted we pay the last set) . To keep it in pool terms he fired an air barrel on the last set which is never acceptable to put it lightly.


However I truely believe he started the whole thing with good intentions because the thought he could make a pile of $$$ and make it big, it has the same demographic as poker whitch was blowing up at that time on TV, pool dosent have a Don king(Bad guy too) but at least Don makes events come off and boxers $$$. So pool was a easy desperate sport to make big cheaply, hell darts would cost more to take over. So KT saw a cheap way to take something big and it failed. Thus he bailed out. In his defence and I dont know all the details about what is owed to who, whats wrong with closing up shop-I lost a business once that forced me to bankruptcy. The people I didnt pay hated me but I had no choice. So I understand his decision. There isnt a pool players union to guarantee anything.

I hate the fact he whored out our community of the most under paid professionals of any sport, game in the world. I know what it takes to become a pro in this game a life long commitment, in most cases.

I hate the fact it didnt work.

It wasnt 100% KT's fault it failed. (To the best of my knowlege, why would he cause it to fail unless he stole alot of $$$)

Look at his other things he is a successful person and if he didnt believe his pool tour wasnt going to be successful he wouldnt have spent a dime on it or wasted his time. To the best of my knowlege its not like he rat holed alot of $$$ and left town. If he did do that then yeah lets find him and hang him. If it was a business failure then at least he gave it a shot. I heard he owes people $$$, I did to when I went down and didnt pay, I have been owed $$$ and didnt collect-it sucks but again its a cold world out and nothing is for sure...


Please understand i'm not defending him, but its getting old hearing everyone act like they are a victim of fraud on this mess, even if everyone is, move on. I have been beat so bad because I matched up wrong it was rediclous and lost more than I should have(I also learned how to match up next time, i didnt give up playing or claim who beat me ruined my life and i'm never gonna play again-Tony Watson comes to mind in Reno in the late 80's, wow I got robbed-I never had a shot litterly, but thats another story). KT is a POS no doubt but its over-move on, I just dont play Tony anymore. I just outlined one reason why it could have ended, perhaps i'm 100% wrong but we need to move on weather i'm right or wrong. I'm a businessman, never had a job so this looks clear to me, it might not to people who arnt in business-not a knock just 2 different perspectives.


One more thing if KT wanted to rob a sport why would he pick pool? he would go where there is some big $$ he could scam.


If I ever started something like KY did and I'm not implying I am but if I did I would have a budget to make sure that the first 3 or 4 events everyone got paid. The $$ would be visable in an escrow account, if after that it didnt work I'd leave too but I wouldnt leave anyone hanging on waiting to get paid. I dont operate like that, that was KT problem he fired an air barrel hoping to collect $$$. He made promises before he collected and got caught. POS end of story

I think you make valid points; however, the reason why people can't stand him is because of the lack of integrity and the constant lying. If he would have said at the beginning of the Reno event, "Guys, I may not be able to pay, and here's why, but please play anyway.." most of them would have been OK with that.

As soon as you lie and misrepresent the truth, intentionally, you instantly erase everything that was done right.

Here are the stone cold facts you may not be aware of:

1) Deno told me when I arrived at Reno that the IPT had "an unlimited budget." When my partner and I asked him their budget for operations and marketing later in the week, his response was "we don't have a budget... that's not how Kevin operates" (insinuating he's "mac-money")
*LIE*

2) The IPT was insolvent during the IPT event, which is why they didn't pay, obviously. So, they weren't "loaded" as Deno mentioned.
*LIE*

3) Kevin concocted the Ho merger. He announced a merger/acquisition w/ Ho Interactive and presented it as being complete when there was no deal in place. No one on planet earth ever, ever, ever, ever, ever announces a merger and acquisition publicly before it's completed. Doing so can ruin a deal - even if it were to happen. Because I assume KT knows this, he did so as the foundation of his cover-up of not paying. The internet gambling law was, based on my memory, passed after the IPT; therefore, it shouldn't have had a bearing on whether or not the payouts were made. Kevin Trudeau told me on the phone after the event not to worry, because Ho was still going to purchase the IPT, just at a reduced amount and that the players would be paid by the end of October.
*LIE*

4) Kevin announced at Reno that he was proud to announce the prize fund would be increased from $2M to $3M due to the Ho merger - which was certainly not completed (and may have never been). He knowingly did this while the IPT as a company did not have the funds to pay (since they didn't).
*LIE*

4b) Deno told me after Reno the players weren't paid due to "tax reasons" and "tax liability"
*LIE*

5) Deno told me that the London event was canceled due to them not finalizing the venue contract or logistics w/ the table shipments? Maybe both. Either way, we all know now that was canceled because they knew they couldn't get passed Reno.
*LIE*

6) I can't tell you how many times I was told, "We sent the check last week--- you didn't receive it??"
*LIE*

I can go on and on, but I'm busy here at work. I'd LOOOVE to get into a debate with any living human being on the face of the earth who wants to say the IPT was good for pool and the players. ANY LIVING HUMAN BEING. Just because someone got a check, does not mean the IPT didn't decimate the industry.
 
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Just because someone got a check, does not mean the IPT didn't decimate the industry.

Hwo has it decimated the industry?????????

we are no worse off than before, except that everybody's appetite has been whetted more now after the IPT, and people are aiming higher. allen hopkins million dollar nine ball event is an example.

so i say to you again. how are we worse off? apart from maybe the ignorance is bliss argument - now we know what pool could maybe be like we arent satisfied with what we've got now.
 
.... and one more thing:

Because KT did what he did.... other legitimate "KT's" of the world would never make a legitimate go for professional pool.

Therefore, when you think you made $ because you cashed a check....

... you LOST ten fold in reality.
 
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JAM said:
It's easy to sit on the rail like a nit, taking cheap shots at pool players, like the above-referenced comment. Champion pool players' eyes look on heights beyond yours and my gaze. It is the look of a spirit that can soar, an air of freedom unconquerable, and as such, it is their right to play pool anywhere they feel like it. While champion-caliber players are scrambling around the world, scraping for crumbs, they continue on and try to be all that they can be, the ultimate goal being that precious almighty win. Without them, there would be no sport. Give them the proper dues they deserve instead of ridiculing them as if they're Kling-ons visiting the Starship Enterprise.

JAM

Wow...I was just joking JAM.
 
worriedbeef said:
Hwo has it decimated the industry?????????

we are no worse off than before, except that everybody's appetite has been whetted more now after the IPT, and people are aiming higher. allen hopkins million dollar nine ball event is an example.

so i say to you again. how are we worse off? apart from maybe the ignorance is bliss argument - now we know what pool could maybe be like we arent satisfied with what we've got now.

I was referring to a pool angel-investor / savior / institutional investor coming in and funding a big tour. Not Allen's tournament--- that's self-funded by large entrance fees and qualifiers. That's one tournament, not a tour.

Prior to the IPT, it was possible to get an individual or company to come in and fund something big (as KT tried). Now, it's what you would call "damaged goods" for years to come. You'll never see anyone come in and try to pull an "IPT" for a long time.
 
.... and one more thing:

Because KT did what he did.... other legitimate "KT's" of the world would never make a legitimate go for professional pool.

Therefore, when you think you made $ because you cashed a check....

... you LOST ten fold in reality.
__________________

that's nothing but a huge assumption though really at best...

i mean, you could legitimately argue that if some rich businessman has big plans for pool and ideas and ambitions, he's hardly gonna just say "actually i'm not gonna bother now because somebody tried something similar before me and messed up"
 
SpiderWebComm said:
....I can go on and on, but I'm busy here at work. I'd LOOOVE to get into a debate with any living human being on the face of the earth who wants to say the IPT was good for pool and the players. ANY LIVING HUMAN BEING.

Well, here I am! Come and get me.

SpiderWebComm said:
Just because someone got a check, does not mean the IPT didn't decimate the industry.

Rubbish and hogwash. The IPT didn't decimate the industry.

Au contraire, it's the people who ridicule pool players as if they're freaks of nature, criticizing them because they made a choice in life to play professional pool.

What created the demise of pool as a sport is the nits on the rail who got nothing better to do than spew their nasty "words of wisdom." Pool players have rights, too. Without them, this pool world would be a little dull, wouldn't you think?

Kevin Trudeau tried to elevate pool, and he ain't finished yet, fortunately for those pool players who do want to play professional pool. Today, somebody has to win, place, or show to make a profit in pool competitions. If somebody out there is willing to invest tens of millions of dollars to give pool players a decent platform to compete, then I applaud the effort.

Decade after decade after decade, professional pool has sunk deeper into the abyss of a fruitless wilderness. Yet, pool players continued to give it their all, following their dream to be the best that they can be. I ain't seen anyone invest MILLIONS of dollars into pool in my lifetime, until Kevin Trudeau came to the scene. If you don't like the IPT or Kevin Trudeau, that is your right, but don't ridicule the pool players who want to play in first-class venues and be treated like the professionals that they are.

JAM
 
Not Allen's tournament--- that's self-funded by large entrance fees and qualifiers. That's one tournament, not a tour.

just to be clear i brought up allen's event as an example of the pool industry trying to aim a bit higher now after the IPT gave us a taster. also just so you know, i think allen does intend it to be a tour - he spoke about it in an interview with onthebreak, but like he said, we'll see.
 
worriedbeef said:
that's nothing but a huge assumption though really at best...

i mean, you could legitimately argue that if some rich businessman has big plans for pool and ideas and ambitions, he's hardly gonna just say "actually i'm not gonna bother now because somebody tried something similar before me and messed up"

Worried Beef, it's called intrinsic value.

Joe Rogan made a comment about how the UFC was funded through those casino brothers. Imagine if KT decided to fund the UFC and ruined it like he ruined the IPT, would those casino brothers come in after the fact and try to make a go of it following a national scandal? Answer is no.

That's why, long-term, there's damage.
 
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