In defense of JR

[drivermaker]

fairly level green.

There are different methods of chipping and different ways of aim or alignment in chipping.

If it's fairly level, you want to figure out the distance from ball to cup and the distance from the ball to a "safe zone" landing spot on the green where the ball can start rolling as quickly as possible. That helps you to determine what club to use. Some players use multiple clubs and others try to do it with one.

However, you pick an imaginary spot out on the green that you want to carry the ball to AND that's on line with the ball and cup. Some players will address the ball with an open stance and others will have a square stance.

In other words, the feet are on a parrallel line with a straight imaginary line drawn from the ball to the cup. It's like a railroad track...the same visual imagery used in one of the aiming systems in pool. The ball to cup line is the outside rail on a railroad track, and the line of the feet is the inside rail of the railroad track.

The bottom portion of the club is also aligned to the landing spot straight on...not to the left and not to the right. It remains square to that spot.

Everthing else is also parallel...meaning your eyeline, shoulders, hips, knees and feet. That's how an accomplised player or pro addresses the shot.

A hack looks at the cup...sets up to the ball somewhere on the general line that he "thinks" is right based on "feel" for the day...and makes his stroke on hope, prayer, and guesswork.
Kinda like a "feel hack" in aiming for pool.

 

[chefjeff]

Different authors of psychology and metaphysics use different terms to describe similar things.

Personally I don't think the word sub-conscious is correct, though it often makes more sense to the reader. I believe it is conscious and that feel can be conscious.

I don't mean it in the touchy feely sense. I'm no hippy or Oprah fan.

The so called sense of feel operates through the nerve endings from the skin and through all organs including the eyes, smell receptors, taste receptors and ears as well as the brain. It is uniquely different from the other senses which are simply sensors.

It is no coincidence that it many languages the term for feel relates both to the touch sense and mental processes.

It may not be a part of the emperical sciences you are familiar with, but it is a key aspect of the meta-physical sciences.

How do you feel about that you heathen pagan

Good point, feel can be conscious. Now what?

Jeff Livingston

 

[TheOne]

No, women only have the 6th one....men don't. They ALWAYS know that we're lying when we tell them we love them for their minds and not their body. (although you can sometimes get away with just saying you love them, you might catch a lapse in focus)

Now, let's talk a little more about Jessica Simpson...

Where would you like to start......<fill in the blanks>

PS
Sadly it wasn't her blonde hair

 

[drivermaker]

Where would you like to start......<fill in the blanks>

PS
Sadly it wasn't her blonde hair

LOL...no kidding. I guess we'll just have to buy the "Dukes Of Hazzard" dvd and play it over and over.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Good point, feel can be conscious. Now what?

Jeff Livingston

Time for bed unfortunately ...Jessica is calling

Maybe when I return, I'll expand upon the relationships between feeling, desire, rightness, reason and memory in regards to their relevance to physical acts of skill, specifically relating to potting.

DM will be in suspense I'm sure

Night all

 

[drivermaker]

Time for bed unfortunately ...Jessica is calling

Maybe when I return, I'll expand upon the relationships between feeling, desire, rightness, reason and memory in regards to their relevance to physical acts of skill, specifically relating to potting.

DM will be in suspense I'm sure

Night all

It's not bed time for me yet, but zzzzzzz......zzzzzzzzz.....zzzzzzzzzz.......zzzzzzzzzz......(no need to wake me either) zzzzzzzz........zzzzzzzzz.......

 

[TheOne]

LOL...no kidding. I guess we'll just have to buy the "Dukes Of Hazzard" dvd and play it over and over.

I find that the pause always presses my buttons

 

[BRKNRUN]

You can add to :
Is CIT going to effect the OB?
IS SPIN going to effect the OB?
with...
How far will be the the deflection of the CB with english?
How much will the CB swerve?
How will the speed effect all of the above?

Now, for a system or set of sytems to provide solutions to all of these at various speeds, distances and angles seems to me very unlikely.

Whereas, if I hit a shot hard with low left, slighlty elevated on a 1/2 ball and miss it to the right. I adjust a bit an repeat..and repeat...until I just remember what works. I may start by taking into account all these variables to make an initial estimate of aiming line, but I learn to hone in on making each shot very accurately by repetition, careful observation and adjustment.

I see where you are going with this...and I tend to agree. There are parts of shootinga CB into a OB that are alingment and other parts that are done by feel...

The bolded items above would fall into a "feel" catagory as every cue and CB and Cloth and Rail will act different.

My main point was that shooting a round ball into another round ball to make the ball "Cut" by some degree has a different alingment process than simply shooting a bullet at a "end result" target

I can sit there all day and make the cb hit a specific diamond, but to make a "specific part" of the CB hit the diamond is a differnt story....and then throw in all the "feel" variables....makes the process a challenge.

What I agree with though is that there are non-feel variables and feel variables in shooting a shot....That is probably why there is so much debate...everyone is picking "limited" pieces of shotmaking that fits thier side...........JMO

BTW...Before someone comes up with the "Yeah but shooting a rifle you have to "feel" for the wind and loss of velocity over distance"......It won't apply in a matter of 9 feet max.....or even 12 feet for a snooker table...

 

[Gerald]

Good post. The point is to see who has the biggest dick. imho.

"Houleigans," I like it...that name should stick.

The problem is that the term "feel" is incorrect. It would better be stated by the concept of, "consciously playing subconscious pool." Or in this exact topic, "consciously aiming subconsiously."

In other words, each shooter has consciously learned how to pot balls. Once done numerous times, the subconscious mind has now learned it and takes over the task, freeing up the conscious mind to do something else. By using a process of integration (my term is "The Recipe"), one can then add new aiming information via the conscious mind again, and overlearn that, so the subconscious mind can take over that task, too. Thus, some come to call it "feel," when it is really overlearned skill.

Now as to what exact aiming method(s) is overlearned, that is up to the player, his goals, his spot in his journey of pool, and how much shit he's willing to put up with here with to learn something new.

Jeff Livingston

Thank you. As I was reading previous posts I was thinking is there not a starting point. A system so to say that enables a person to determine aiming, and there seem to be many, and once that system is learned isn't it possible for one to sub consciously use this and other systems automatically in a manner that could be considered "feel" Do we take a person brand new to pool, put a cue in his hands show him the basics of how to use it and say to him, or her. put that ball in the pocket by "feel". I think that "feel" is a result of knowledge stored.

 

[GeraldG]

Thank you. As I was reading previous posts I was thinking is there not a starting point. A system so to say that enables a person to determine aiming, and there seem to be many, and once that system is learned isn't it possible for one to sub consciously use this and other systems automatically in a manner that could be considered "feel" Do we take a person brand new to pool, put a cue in his hands show him the basics of how to use it and say to him, or her. put that ball in the pocket by "feel". I think that "feel" is a result of knowledge stored.

OK, now I'm confused. Was Jeff responding to you or me? Did I write that post, or did you write it? Am I you? Or are you me? Or am I me and you are you? Gerald? GeraldG? I think I need to change my screen name....let's see....how about Driversmakers?

 

[Fred Agnir]

WW: BTW, Fred, I can read. And I can also read between the lines, something left brained people SIMPLY CANNOT DO.

And as I said previously, you have no idea what being left-brained means. It's only a catch phrase for you, and for those that don't understand it's meaning .It's obvious you don't understand, because you accuse me of being "left-brained." Anyone who can actually read my posts can see that I'm not.

Those who accuse others of being "left-brained" actually are the ones who don't have balance. It's the very collegiate Psych 101 immaturity that defines you.

You're immature. And you don't know the first thing about balanced brain activity. That's why everything you don't understand is "too left-brained," without any realization that the rest of us use our right brain quite well, thank you very much.

I'm very proud of my artistic nature, and my artistic background. Nothing you delude will ever take away my upbringing.

Someday, maybe I'll teach you about Psychology 101.

Fred <~~~ very right-brained, thank goodness

 

[GeraldG]

And as I said previously, you have no idea what being left-brained means. It's only a catch phrase for you, and for those that don't understand it's meaning .It's obvious you don't understand, because you accuse me of being "left-brained." Anyone who can actually read my posts can see that I'm not.

Those who accuse others of being "left-brained" actually are the ones who don't have balance. It's the very collegiate Psych 101 immaturity that defines you.

You're immature. And you don't know the first thing about balanced brain activity. That's why everything you don't understand is "too left-brained," without any realization that the rest of us use our right brain quite well, thank you very much.

I'm very proud of my artistic nature, and my artistic background. Nothing you delude will ever take away my upbringing.

Someday, maybe I'll teach you about Psychology 101.

Fred <~~~ very right-brained, thank goodness

So...should you line up your left-brain or your right brain over the cue?


Seriously, I agree with you 100% FWIW.

 

[Fred Agnir]

Seriously, I agree with you 100% FWIW.

That WW has no idea what he's talking about? Good, that makes everyone.

He brings this crap up every time discussions go over his head. He probably knows the least about "left brain vs. right brain" among anybody on this board.

The fact of the matter is, because I've written technically (I am and engineer afterall) he assumes that I can't be anything other than left-brain dominant. But, what about all of the other posts over the past 8 years that I've written that aren't technical? What about the odd fact that I'm an accomplished pool player (a very right-brained activity). What about the fact that I'm a musician? I love sports (yet, another right-brain activity). What about the fact that I'm a writer for a magazine, and that my writing includes creative writing and poetry (two very right-brained activities)? That is what I wanted to do, when I was in high school two decades ago.

And what about the fact that I've never scored anything on left/right brain analysis test that suggested that I was anything other the balanced with a tendency toward right-brain dominant (depending on the set of questions). I have never been confused with being left-brain dominant.

Here's an interesting test, not like the usual fluff on the internet, one that you can't prethink your answers:

http://web.tickle.com/tests/brain/

It's a question of balance. I happen to have some. WW is apparently overcome with jealousy and overall ignorance.

Fred

 

[BRKNRUN]

That WW has no idea what he's talking about? Good, that makes everyone.

He brings this crap up every time discussions go over his head. He probably knows the least about "left brain vs. right brain" among anybody on this board.

The fact of the matter is, because I've written technically (I am and engineer afterall) he assumes that I can't be anything other than left-brain dominant. But, what about all of the other posts over the past 8 years that I've written that aren't technical? What about the odd fact that I'm an accomplished pool player (a very right-brained activity). What about the fact that I'm a musician? I love sports (yet, another right-brain activity). What about the fact that I'm a writer for a magazine, and that my writing includes creative writing and poetry (two very right-brained activities)? That is what I wanted to do, when I was in high school two decades ago.

And what about the fact that I've never scored anything on left/right brain analysis test that suggested that I was anything other the balanced with a tendency toward right-brain dominant (depending on the set of questions). I have never been confused with being left-brain dominant.

It's a question of balance. I happen to have some. WW is apparently overcome with jealousy and overall ignorance.

Fred

However.....being left brained is not the end of the world.....I scored a 2 on a scale of 1 - 40 (higher the number the more right brained you were, the lower the more left brained you were)

That being said, and the fact that pattern play and shot selection are probably my weakest link in pool, I still have quite a bit of imagination and creativity in me. I am always coming up with "off the wall" ideas and concepts.....

DISCLAIMER: I was a Psyc 101 student in JC and thats it....

 

[drivermaker]

Thank you. As I was reading previous posts I was thinking is there not a starting point. A system so to say that enables a person to determine aiming, and there seem to be many, and once that system is learned isn't it possible for one to sub consciously use this and other systems automatically in a manner that could be considered "feel" Do we take a person brand new to pool, put a cue in his hands show him the basics of how to use it and say to him, or her. put that ball in the pocket by "feel". I think that "feel" is a result of knowledge stored.

Yep...well put. What seems to be ironic is the so called "feel" guys on this thread are the ones that have the least knowledge of all the various ways to do it and also the most resistant to learning other new systems. All they want to do is sit on their ass and attempt to debunk something on paper in 2-D and then have the balls to talk about "feel" when enough hours aren't even spent at a real table to develop it. For as little as they play, if ANYONE needs systems to keep things on track...it's them! Go figure...

 

[GeraldG]

That WW has no idea what he's talking about? Good, that makes everyone.

He brings this crap up every time discussions go over his head. He probably knows the least about "left brain vs. right brain" among anybody on this board.

The fact of the matter is, because I've written technically (I am and engineer afterall) he assumes that I can't be anything other than left-brain dominant. But, what about all of the other posts over the past 8 years that I've written that aren't technical? What about the odd fact that I'm an accomplished pool player (a very right-brained activity). What about the fact that I'm a musician? I love sports (yet, another right-brain activity). What about the fact that I'm a writer for a magazine, and that my writing includes creative writing and poetry (two very right-brained activities)? That is what I wanted to do, when I was in high school two decades ago.

And what about the fact that I've never scored anything on left/right brain analysis test that suggested that I was anything other the balanced with a tendency toward right-brain dominant (depending on the set of questions). I have never been confused with being left-brain dominant.

Here's an interesting test, not like the usual fluff on the internet, one that you can't prethink your answers:

http://web.tickle.com/tests/brain/

It's a question of balance. I happen to have some. WW is apparently overcome with jealousy and overall ignorance.

Fred

Yeah, WW seems to be weilding the "Left-brained" thing like some sort of weapon...as if it were some sort of insult.

Just because a person has well-developed left brain function DOES NOT mean that he or she is incapable of tasks associated with the right brain. Nor is one function exclusive to one side of the brain or the other. One side (region) of the brain naturally is used mainly for creative/artistic tasks and the other side mainly for logical type tasks, but in the event that one region of the brain is diminished in function, another region can and will take over those tasks that were associated with it. And..people with well developed "left-brain" function can also possess highly developed "right-brain" function.

As a matter of fact, Engineers are typically the types of people that have a high degree of function in both regions, especially design Engineers. They need the logical function for the technical aspects of their job as well as the creativity for the design aspects.

 

[DaveK]

...Engineers are typically the types of people that have a high degree of function in both regions....

You are a very smart man GeraldG !

Dave

 

[Fred Agnir]

As a matter of fact, Engineers are typically the types of people that have a high degree of function in both regions, especially design Engineers. They need the logical function for the technical aspects of their job as well as the creativity for the design aspects.

It's something he'll never understand. He just has no idea.

Fred

 

[Fred Agnir]

that was a fun test fred thanks for sharing the site..i came up left brained. and it sure did fit me. i was good at math, fact i was a math teacher and welding instructor.now i know why i cant play any musical instrument. anyways thanks again fred.

When I took it, it came up "balanced." No surprise to me, given my daily activities. And, I think you'd agree, there's no way to "think ahead" the answers in some effort to tailor the analysis.

Fred

 

[sjm]

We need more pirates.

It has been scientifically proven that a reduction in pirates has led to an increase in global warming.

(I will ignore all mentions of the causation v correlation argument).

Ships ahoy...or something

Another classic in this sort of thing is that the economy always seemes to do well when church attendance is falling. The only logical implication, therefore, is that if people just stopped going to church, the economy would rally big-time. My college statistics professor used this example to drive home the point that you need to be careful with quantitative modeling.