In Defense of Mr. Wilson

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Mr Wilson plays pool (mentioned that so that this post is considered pool-related.) But seriously...........

I do not have an opinion on whether Jimbo should have been banned. In fact, I did not read the controversial posts that led to a decision that seems to have many very upset, and I ache for those who have temporarily lost a valued companion on the forum.........

What I do have an opinion on is the hallowed halls of AZB and the means by which they are, and must be, maintained and defended.

To me, AZB is a library. In a library, there are authors whose works are partially or completely omitted intentionally, for the simple reason that those rightfully empowered are able to manage content before a book hits the shelves.

Mr Wilson is the librarian here at AZB, but he does not have the luxury of being able to manage content before the fact, except that he can remove a thread that is evolving objectionably or distastefully. The threads are the books of the AZB library, the posts chapters of those books, but the librarian must, as a rule, remove unsuitable materials from the shelves to properly manage content, and it's one tough job.

When we go to the public library, we all understand that one objectionable chapter may be enough to keep an otherwise good book off the shelves, yet few accept that one bad post in a thread can, similarly, make a thread unworthy of remaining on the shelves of the AZB library. How often posters go crazy when a thread with some useful content is removed!

We, similarly, understand that a library may choose to boycott an author that has produced just one objectionable book, yet many cannot accept it when a comparable choice is made by our AZB librarian about a poster.

At my local public library, they don't carry all the authors I like, and they don't have all the books I prefer, and they have their reasons. Rather than scream at the librarian for this, I prefer to recognize that the librarian does the best they can to manage content, and that I should be thankful for what I have. I extend the same courtesy to Mr. Wilson, the librarian of AZB, and therefore, the empowered judge of what content belongs here.

Mr Wilson gets it right some of the time and wrong some of the time, but he does his best job to manage content here in the hallowed halls of AZB. He will never and can never please all of us, but I think we need to understand and appreciate how difficult his job is, and how well he usually performs it.

When posters ask whether Mr Wilson is GOD or whether he is somehow depriving posters of first amendment rights of free speech, I find it disturbing. Being here is a privilege, not a right, but how easily we sometimes forget.
 
sjm said:
Mr Wilson plays pool (mentioned that so that this post is considered pool-related.) But seriously...........

I do not have an opinion on whether Jimbo should have been banned. In fact, I did not read the controversial posts that led to a decision that seems to have many very upset, and I ache for those who have temporarily lost a valued companion on the forum.........

What I do have an opinion on is the hallowed halls of AZB and the means by which they are, and must be, maintained and defended.

To me, AZB is a library. In a library, there are authors whose works are partially or completely omitted intentionally, for the simple reason that those rightfully empowered are able to manage content before a book hits the shelves.

Mr Wilson is the librarian here at AZB, but he does not have the luxury of being able to manage content before the fact, except that he can remove a thread that is evolving objectionably or distastefully. The threads are the books of the AZB library, the posts chapters of those books, but the librarian must, as a rule, remove unsuitable materials from the shelves to properly manage content, and it's one tough job.

When we go to the public library, we all understand that one objectionable chapter may be enough to keep an otherwise good book off the shelves, yet few accept that one bad post in a thread can, similarly, make a thread unworthy of remaining on the shelves of the AZB library. How often posters go crazy when a thread with some useful content is removed!

We, similarly, understand that a library may choose to boycott an author that has produced just one objectionable book, yet many cannot accept it when a comparable choice is made by our AZB librarian about a poster.

At my local public library, they don't carry all the authors I like, and they don't have all the books I prefer, and they have their reasons. Rather than scream at the librarian for this, I prefer to recognize that the librarian does the best they can to manage content, and that I should be thankful for what I have. I extend the same courtesy to Mr. Wilson, the librarian of AZB, and therefore, the empowered judge of what content belongs here.

Mr Wilson gets it right some of the time and wrong some of the time, but he does his best job to manage content here in the hallowed halls of AZB. He will never and can never please all of us, but I think we need to understand and appreciate how difficult his job is, and how well he usually performs it.

When posters ask whether Mr Wilson is GOD or whether he is somehow depriving posters of first amendment rights of free speech, I find it disturbing. Being here is a privilege, not a right, but how easily we sometimes forget.

Not speaking of the topic, but speaking of the verse, this is well said. Nice analogy. :)
ez
 
When I'm at the library I don't have someone threatening me with being banned. Or asking me to apologize because I said something they didn't like. Librarians by and large will let you say and do most anything because most librarians believe its your right, even if they disagree.

At least the libraries where I live and sometimes work are that way.

personally I wouldn't have a problem with how things are run, if there wasn't a fairly large smacking of a power trip. Egging things on and threatening banning in public, and then having to carry it out or appear weak. Just my opinion based on what I've read on this site.

This site is made up in content by its members, not its owners. It is the most popular site because of its members and the content they provide. I'm glad every time I'm here that Mike has graciously hosted this place where folks like me can write their opinions on billiards, life, and everything in between. Moderation is needed, but in my opinion we have more of a ban first instead of moderate. I think of moderators as someone to help cooler heads prevail, and not cause things to escalate.

Just my .02, and that is all.
 
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sjm said:
Mr Wilson plays pool (mentioned that so that this post is considered pool-related.) But seriously...........

I do not have an opinion on whether Jimbo should have been banned. In fact, I did not read the controversial posts that led to a decision that seems to have many very upset, and I ache for those who have temporarily lost a valued companion on the forum.........

What I do have an opinion on is the hallowed halls of AZB and the means by which they are, and must be, maintained and defended.

To me, AZB is a library. In a library, there are authors whose works are partially or completely omitted intentionally, for the simple reason that those rightfully empowered are able to manage content before a book hits the shelves.

Mr Wilson is the librarian here at AZB, but he does not have the luxury of being able to manage content before the fact, except that he can remove a thread that is evolving objectionably or distastefully. The threads are the books of the AZB library, the posts chapters of those books, but the librarian must, as a rule, remove unsuitable materials from the shelves to properly manage content, and it's one tough job.

When we go to the public library, we all understand that one objectionable chapter may be enough to keep an otherwise good book off the shelves, yet few accept that one bad post in a thread can, similarly, make a thread unworthy of remaining on the shelves of the AZB library. How often posters go crazy when a thread with some useful content is removed!

We, similarly, understand that a library may choose to boycott an author that has produced just one objectionable book, yet many cannot accept it when a comparable choice is made by our AZB librarian about a poster.

At my local public library, they don't carry all the authors I like, and they don't have all the books I prefer, and they have their reasons. Rather than scream at the librarian for this, I prefer to recognize that the librarian does the best they can to manage content, and that I should be thankful for what I have. I extend the same courtesy to Mr. Wilson, the librarian of AZB, and therefore, the empowered judge of what content belongs here.

Mr Wilson gets it right some of the time and wrong some of the time, but he does his best job to manage content here in the hallowed halls of AZB. He will never and can never please all of us, but I think we need to understand and appreciate how difficult his job is, and how well he usually performs it.

When posters ask whether Mr Wilson is GOD or whether he is somehow depriving posters of first amendment rights of free speech, I find it disturbing. Being here is a privilege, not a right, but how easily we sometimes forget.

Very true.

At the end of the day, we would all be better served remembering that membership at azb forums requires adherence to rules. Should at anytime the moderators feel those rules have been usurped, the offneding parties can be removed at their discretion. All members here agreed to thatbefore their intial post.

Yesterday someone responded to that notion as being "unoriginal". That argument is often made when the tired and true thinking cant be defeated, and they would like another crack at a new defense. Ultimately, the arguemnt begins and ends right there.

I'll post this too. The surest way to guarantee that you'll never be banned, excercise comon courtesy and respect for fellow members in each and every post.

Respectful interaction goes along way.

rg
 
cubswin said:
When I'm at the library I don't have someone threatening me with being banned. Or asking me to apologize because I said something they didn't like. Librarians by and large will let you say and do most anything because most librarians believe its your right, even if they disagree.

At least the libraries where I live and sometimes work are that way.

personally I wouldn't have a problem with how things are run, if there wasn't a fairly large smacking of a power trip. Egging things on and threatening banning in public, and then having to carry it out or appear weak. Just my opinion based on what I've read on this site.

This site is made up in content by its members, not its owners. It is the most popular site because of its members and the content they provide. I'm glad every time I'm here that Mike has graciously hosted this place where folks like me can write their opinions on billiards, life, and everything in between. Moderation is needed, but in my opinion we have more of a ban first instead of moderate. I think of moderators as someone to help cooler heads prevail, and not cause things to escalate.

Just my .02, and that is all.
sjm, I respectfully submit that the kernel of truth is here. It is not what is being done, it is the manner in which it occurs. It is partisan, combative and inconsistent.

And, truly, if we want this to be a board about pool (and people complain that "real" pool industry types - players and others - don't participate) do we really want a mod to tell one of the most respected cue makers of all time to go to usenet for their freedom? I still shake my head as I type that. What if that was one of the many industry people that you know and respect?

Yes, it is Mike's board and he appointed Dave. But, c'mon. Things have gotten out of hand all over the place here.
 
NYC cue dude said:
Very true.

At the end of the day, we would all be better served remembering that membership at azb forums requires adherence to rules. Should at anytime the moderators feel those rules have been usurped, the offneding parties can be removed at their discretion. All members here agreed to thatbefore their intial post.

Yesterday someone responded to that notion as being "unoriginal". That argument is often made when the tired and true thinking cant be defeated, and they would like another crack at a new defense. Ultimately, the arguemnt begins and ends right there.

I'll post this too. The surest way to guarantee that you'll never be banned, excercise comon courtesy and respect for fellow members in each and every post.

Respectful interaction goes along way.


rg
Randy, it goes a long way when the mods do it also.
 
cubswin said:
When I'm at the library I don't have someone threatening me with being banned. Or asking me to apologize because I said something they didn't like. Librarians by and large will let you say and do most anything because most librarians believe its your right, even if they disagree.

At least the libraries where I live and sometimes work are that way.


Just my .02, and that is all.

They would if you were being overly disruptive.

Regardless I believe you have misinterpreted SJM's analogy. According to him, we are all authors in the library that is AZB. If we write something that is offensive it will be pulled from the shelves, if we continue writing in such a manner, our works will be denied publication.
 
I'm Lost

Cameron Smith said:
They would if you were being overly disruptive.

Regardless I believe you have misinterpreted SJM's analogy. According to him, we are all authors in the library that is AZB. If we write something that is offensive it will be pulled from the shelves, if we continue writing in such a manner, our works will be denied publication.



Dammit, they took my library card away....
Doug
( and, the Dewey Decimal System )
 
SJM,

I haven't been here in a long time now. I don't know what the deal is with Jimbo and I don't really care. Seems that things haven't really changed that much though.

As usual, you wrote another exquisite post. The only thing that I would say is that AZ is not like a library the way I see it. Rather, it is like a privately owned book store. The owner has the right to stock whatever books he/she wants. He/she can exclude any books he or she wants.

It also seems to me that many here feel that this forum should be some type of democracy. I don't and never have. This forum exists at the sole whim of the owner.

I grew up in a family owned business so I have no problem understanding that this site is nothing more than a privately owned business. The people that come to this site have the option to leave if they don't like it. No one is forcing anyone to stay here. I left for quite a while and I read one thread and feel like I never left.

It is nice to see you still here, though, SJM!
 
cubswin said:
When I'm at the library I don't have someone threatening me with being banned. Or asking me to apologize because I said something they didn't like. Librarians by and large will let you say and do most anything because most librarians believe its your right, even if they disagree.

At least the libraries where I live and sometimes work are that way.

personally I wouldn't have a problem with how things are run, if there wasn't a fairly large smacking of a power trip. Egging things on and threatening banning in public, and then having to carry it out or appear weak. Just my opinion based on what I've read on this site.

This site is made up in content by its members, not its owners. It is the most popular site because of its members and the content they provide. I'm glad every time I'm here that Mike has graciously hosted this place where folks like me can write their opinions on billiards, life, and everything in between. Moderation is needed, but in my opinion we have more of a ban first instead of moderate. I think of moderators as someone to help cooler heads prevail, and not cause things to escalate.

Just my .02, and that is all.

Walk into a library, drop your drawers, stick it in someone's face and tell them to kiss it.
Free speech? I think not.
Would a librarian let this ride with a warning? I think not.
I think the police would be there in no time to help you find the door.

Being a moderator is a thankless job most of the time. I'll tell you one thing, they couldn't pay me enough to do it.

I may not agree with them 100% but they have my respect.
 
Stones said:
Walk into a library, drop your drawers, stick it in someone's face and tell them to kiss it.
Free speech? I think not.
Would a librarian let this ride with a warning? I think not.
I think the police would be there in no time to help you find the door.

Being a moderator is a thankless job most of the time. I'll tell you one thing, they couldn't pay me enough to do it.

I may not agree with them 100% but they have my respect.

Exactly correct. Being a moderator is a PITA (If you don't know what that one stands for, well...)

Face it, some people don't listen to warnings, and it is a PRIVILEGE, not a GOD GIVEN RIGHT, that you are on these forums.

You consented to the rules and regulations of this forum.

If you don't like them, leave, or make a better forum.
 
sjm said:
...What I do have an opinion on is the hallowed halls of AZB and the means by which they are, and must be, maintained and defended.

To me, AZB is a library...Mr Wilson gets it right some of the time and wrong some of the time, but he does his best job to manage content here in the hallowed halls of AZB. He will never and can never please all of us, but I think we need to understand and appreciate how difficult his job is, and how well he usually performs it.

When posters ask whether Mr Wilson is GOD or whether he is somehow depriving posters of first amendment rights of free speech, I find it disturbing. Being here is a privilege, not a right, but how easily we sometimes forget.

Wow, what a GREAT post! I feel exactly the same way as you.

I am very happy to see SJM come forward with his excellent words of wisdom. Thank you for being brave enough to state the truth. Well done!

JAM
 
I tried to give you GOOD rep, SJM, but I got that infamous message stating that I must spread it around some more! :p

Again, thank you, SJM, for stepping up to the plate and providing your opinion. I couldn't agree more with your words.

GREAT post by SJM, as usual. You are truly one of AzBilliard's most esteemed posters and most definitely an asset to this forum, just like Mr. Wilson. You are always the voice of reason!

JAM
 
ScottR said:
It is partisan, combative and inconsistent.


I believe this is exactly where the problem lies. When a leader plays favorites he loses respect. It's obvious Mr Wilson put JimBo under a microscope, no one can survive this scrutiny. Others hower, make blatant racial slurs, yet their posts are deleted and the offender continues to post. Mr. Wilson gave JimBo an ultimatum in public, maybe this should be have been done privately to allow JimBo to save face. Instead JimBo had to stand on what he believed to be right and get banned.

SJM, while I completely agree with you, the situaion was handled inappropriately and offensive posts are not given the same punishment to everyone.

JAM, I remember the thread you have been talking about, IMO, the offending party deserved a break for some of the things said there.

This is my perception, reality or not, it's what I perceive to be happening.

Jim
 
jhendri2 said:
I believe this is exactly where the problem lies. When a leader plays favorites he loses respect. It's obvious Mr Wilson put JimBo under a microscope, no one can survive this scrutiny.

Jim, let me please comment on your observation. I do not believe Mr. Wilson puts anyone under a microscope. When an offending party continues to call people idiots, with constant references to them having reading comprehension problems, and then, ultimately, that they are hypocrites, it seems that the offending party is developing a pattern of problematic, harrassing, and rude posts, IMHO.

jhendri2 said:
JAM, I remember the thread you have been talking about, IMO, the offending party deserved a break for some of the things said there.

Jim, it was not the first time the offending party targeted me and/or mine on this forum.

One of the MANY insults directed at me personally is that the offending party instructed me to not post anything about pool anymore on this forum because I "have no clue." The offending party posts that I should stick to my trip reports and that is all. This was one of the MANY insults targeting me personally, and it was hurtful, which was the sole intention of the offending party.

I don't think I need to provide my pool portfolio on this forum, but, in a nutshell, I have run many pool tournaments -- got one of my tournaments on TV on "PM Magazine" here in D.C. -- worked in an action pool room on the graveyard shift (LOL), played pool as a 6 on the Busch League, played pool socially with friends, played pool for money, and used to travel on the road when action was prevalent many years ago, all this before the offending party was even born and set foot on this earth.

Yep, it is personal with me because the offending party most definitely did target me, among others.

JAM
 
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JAM said:
Jim, let me please comment on your observation. I do not believe Mr. Wilson puts anyone under a microscope. When an offending party continues to call people idiots, with constant references to them having reading comprehension problems, and then, ultimately, that they are hypocrites, it seems that the offending party is developing a pattern of problematic, harrassing, and rude posts, IMHO.



Jim, it was not the first time the offending party targeted me and/or mine on this forum.

One of the MANY insults directed at me personally is that the offending party instructed me to not post anything about pool anymore on this forum because I "have no clue." The offending party posts that I should stick to my trip reports and that is all. This was one of the MANY insults targeting me personally, and it was hurtful, which was the sole intention of the offending party.

I don't think I need to provide my pool portfolio on this forum, but, in a nutshell, I have run many pool tournaments -- got one of my tournaments on TV on "PM Magazine" here in D.C. -- worked in an action pool room on the graveyard shift (LOL), played pool as a 6 on the Busch League, played pool socially with friends, played pool for money, and used to travel on the road when action was prevalent many years ago, all this before the offending party was even born and set foot on this earth.

Yep, it is personal with me because the offending party most definitely did target me, among others.

JAM

JAM

My apologies, when I said break, I think you took it the wrong way, I meant a ban for the behavior in that thread. Not as in a second chance.

You know I'm a fan of you and Keith, but we'll have to agree to disagree on the way this situation was handled. I've seen, read it, and when the offense is so egrigeous, I've even reported it. In my opinion, punishments are not dealt evenly. JimBo's post were scrutinized unlike some of the favorites on here.

My perception of the way punishment is handled here won't change through words. It takes action by the powers that be.

Jim
 
jhendri2 said:
I've seen, read it, and when the offense is so egrigeous, I've even reported it. In my opinion, punishments are not dealt evenly. JimBo's post were scrutinized unlike some of the favorites on here.

My perception of the way punishment is handled here won't change through words. It takes action by the powers that be.

Jim

I agree. Right now there are at least 20 posts that are much worse than anything Jimbo has ever said on this board. I even brought one particular one to Wilsons attention yesterday. I get on this morning and that poster is still at it.

If he is not banned by the end of the day I will strongly consider loging out for good.

If there is going to be discipline here then it must be fair, consistent and swift.
 
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JAM said:
Jim, let me please comment on your observation. I do not believe Mr. Wilson puts anyone under a microscope. When an offending party continues to call people idiots, with constant references to them having reading comprehension problems, and then, ultimately, that they are hypocrites, it seems that the offending party is developing a pattern of problematic, harrassing, and rude posts, IMHO.



Jim, it was not the first time the offending party targeted me and/or mine on this forum.

One of the MANY insults directed at me personally is that the offending party instructed me to not post anything about pool anymore on this forum because I "have no clue." The offending party posts that I should stick to my trip reports and that is all. This was one of the MANY insults targeting me personally, and it was hurtful, which was the sole intention of the offending party.

I don't think I need to provide my pool portfolio on this forum, but, in a nutshell, I have run many pool tournaments -- got one of my tournaments on TV on "PM Magazine" here in D.C. -- worked in an action pool room on the graveyard shift (LOL), played pool as a 6 on the Busch League, played pool socially with friends, played pool for money, and used to travel on the road when action was prevalent many years ago, all this before the offending party was even born and set foot on this earth.

Yep, it is personal with me because the offending party most definitely did target me, among others.

JAM


Good morning JAM.... Please let me know if you and Keith are coming up to Turning Stone in february. Sure won't be the same without you and him there...............................mike
 
jhendri2 said:
JAM

My apologies, when I said break, I think you took it the wrong way, I meant a ban for the behavior in that thread. Not as in a second chance.

Shucks, Jim, no apologies are warranted, truly. I respect you and your opinion on the topic. :)

jhendri2 said:
...but we'll have to agree to disagree on the way this situation was handled. I've seen, read it, and when the offense is so egrigeous, I've even reported it. In my opinion, punishments are not dealt evenly. JimBo's post were scrutinized unlike some of the favorites on here.

My perception of the way punishment is handled here won't change through words. It takes action by the powers that be.

Again, I do understand your thoughts and respect your viewpoint. :)

There are EXISTING rules to this MODERATED forum.

The EXISTING rules are located in a sticky thread in the Main Forum.

The offending party was banned previously and hopefully is aware of the EXISTING rules to this MODERATED forum which are on a sticky thread at the beginning of the Main Forum, in full view.

How many times should one be called an "idiot," told they have "reading comprehension problems," and that whatever they say, they are "hypocrites"? These words, as one example, are, IMHO, problematic, harassing, rude, and antagonistic.

I think that if a person is aware of the rules to this forum, then they should follow them.

If they have violated the rules to this MODERATED forum, then, depending on the offense, they should be warned.

If they are banned for violating the rules to this MODERATED forum, then they may be given a second chance.

If they violate the rules in this MODERATED forum after being given a second chance, I think they are deserving of whatever outcome is deemed by the website authority.

JMHO, FWIW.

JAM
 
cueball1950 said:
Good morning JAM.... Please let me know if you and Keith are coming up to Turning Stone in february. Sure won't be the same without you and him there...............................mike

It's up in the air at this juncture, Mike! However, I know that you will have a blast at the Turning Stone Casino, and I hope you provide some updates in case I am unable to attend.

Hope all is well with you and yours, Mike. May the New Year bring you all that you desire! :)

JAM
 
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