In regards to Bonus Ball

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
The whole hater thing amuses me.

In the culture I grew up in, that of making things out of metal with very expensive tools and materials, peoples "feelings" meant very little. When processes were set up you poked holes in them from every angle and what if'ed things to death. If you can find a way to kill it in the planning stages chances are life will find a way to kill it after its funded.

Nothing is 100%. Risks and challenges are inherent in any venture but taking a critical look at things before during and after events improves the process and the product. Just blithely dancing along saying "Yayyyyy go great job!" does nothing for anyone. But at least those people can't be labeled haters so I guess they are good for something.

Most people I have seen here who are critical of bonus ball have offered advice. Many of those people myself included have been doing the very thing they are trying to do for a long time. If I or anyone else "hated" bonus ball why even take the time to post about it? Why try to give a little guidance at all? Why not just let them flounder around and dig a deeper hole?

If you ask me the people saying "Thanks for trying" are the ones doing the disservice. Trying doesnt mean shit. It wont pay the light bill and it wont pay the players.

I think most of us know what haters are. They are people who are negative just for sport. The don't have the means to change anything and wouldn't know what to do with the money if they had it.

That would be the "this shit will never work" crowd. Then there are the folks who know their way around the business who can offer constructive criticism from experience and who can and will get in the grease if asked to. Those people aren't haters UNLESS they are doing it just to cast a negative vibe and hope for failure.

I think a lot of people are simply disappointed after all the hype leading up to this. The last thing anyone expected after all the buildup was for the streaming to be jacked. After all we have been spoiled by streamers for half a decade now. That coupled with the scheduling conflict led to a perfect storm of discontent.

So some of the "haters" got their wish, a failure, while most everyone else is just venting their frustration.

Every time I hear someone say something won't work I chuckle at how most inventions had the same reaction when you dig into the story behind them. People have all sorts of rejection-letter stories leading up to eventual success.

In fact I remember that a former member here went on several rants about how bad "gambling and streaming" are for pool and then a few years later he was gambling on matches and sponsoring streams. All that after mega "this shit will never work" style rants.

Like you said before if BB jsut gets it together and it works then people will quickly forget this weekend and it will be all good.
 

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Together we'll stand. Divided we fall. Come on, now, people, let's get on the ball and work together ---> HERE
 

trob

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why would anyone who loves this game want this to fail? You don't want to see our best get an opportunity to showcase there talent? Who cares if it's a different game..there thinking outside the box. I hope this is a step in the direction of our players finally having a chance to make a living playing a game we love and they work so hard at.

It's the first weekend. I don't think in the long haul it will cause you to fail but I think you should have maybe ran a free stream for a pre season match to load test it. Hell even restaurants have soft open to put everything to the test before they open the doors to the mass's

btw i just finally got a chance to watch on you tube today and I enjoy it...I'm going to buy the stream and support it.
 

Poolshootindon

Registered Pool Offender
Silver Member
Remember the Outer Limits

Nathan, no doubt you're great at vid production, but you blow big honkin' chunks when it comes to being a spokesmodel. Do everyone concerned a favor and step back from the keyboard for awhile.

Lou Figueroa

Here is how Nathan came across to me.

" There is nothing wrong with your television. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are now controlling the transmission. We control the horizontal and the vertical. We can deluge you with a thousand channels or expand one single image to crystal clarity and beyond. We can shape your vision to anything our imagination can conceive. For the next few hours we will control all that you see and hear. You are about to experience the awe and mystery which reaches from the deepest inner mind to the outer limits ".

Don
 

cardiac kid

Super Senior Member
Silver Member
the longer I live the more I understand that everything balances in the end. An advance one direction leads to a retreat in another. When one thing rises another must fall. Even if the pie gets bigger, now 1000 channels and practically unlimited on-demand content there are winners and losers.

The only constant is time, each day comes and goes and when it's gone it's gone. It's pointless to discuss the possible future of things because no matter what that future is will be of almost zero consequence for most of us. For those that can be impacted they are the ones who should not be discussing but planning for what may come.

The rest of us are simply chattering away about the yin or the yang and allowing ourselves to be pulled along on the winds of opinion like leaves in the wind, blown this way and that with no will of our own.

I am not even sure what the yin or the yang is here. I hope everyone gets what they want out it even though I know it's probably improbable.

John,

Think James Taylor really hit this nail on the head. "The secret to life is enjoying the passage of time"! Yin or yang.

Lyn
 

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The Bonus Ball reminds me of the polarization of Congress, with its two-party system. What drives party polarization is competition for control.

It seems like today there is a ferocious competitiveness in pool. You can see this in a variety of recent threads on this forum.

The polarization of the pool industry has led to less productivity or advancement of the sport. Instead of working together, the trend is the rip everybody apart, pointing out flaws, warts, and problems.

We have competitiveness in my industry, but when we need support, we do receive support from our competitors. We work together to get the job done. There's a bond of sorts in that we are all members of the same tribe.

Not so much in pool. Humans are the only species that can, and will, kill from afar.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
Nathan, no doubt you're great at vid production, but you blow big honkin' chunks when it comes to being a spokesmodel. Do everyone concerned a favor and step back from the keyboard for awhile.

Lou Figueroa

Listen to this guy Nate. He spent his whole career spinning stories for the military. If anyone is fit to be a mentor on how to spin a negative into a positive then it's Lou. He is also even way way way better at turning positives into negatives.
 

Poolshootindon

Registered Pool Offender
Silver Member
I agree with Jam

Checking my pulse to make sure I am alive. :smile:

Pool had two really good movies about the life of a pool player.

The Hustler and The Color of Money.

Shortly after these movies came out, pool had a huge spike in interest.

Now it seems to be gone again.

I am not sure the game of pool is the culprit here.

Its the people involved.

Fixing pool tourneys, throwing matches, cutting up your horse, and just that general hustler image.

Don
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Lou, this is a situation where they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Nathan is only the messenger, yet he's getting pummeled to death on this forum with all kinds of replies, ranging from constructive criticism to personal attacks.

Yes, BB should have a PR spokesperson, but for whatever reason, they don't. Still, I don't think Nathan is deserving of some -- not all -- of the posts about BB. It is as if people are holding Nathan accountable.

At least he is attempting to address inquiries and concerns. It's more than what I've witnessed other industry members do, from reading this forum over the years. If Nathan did not reply, as some others industry members are wont to doing, he would still be getting slammed.


Even when the news is bad, or even horrible, there is the right way to present it, or "the messenger" just ends up compounding the horribleness of the news. IOW, a bad, inexperienced, untrained, or just uncouth messenger can make the news worse than it is or even make their delivery of the news bad news in and of itself. And, that is what's happening here. In fact his presentation is so bad, if he's the only spokesmodel BB can come up with, then they are better off not saying anything at all, as bad of an alternative as that is.

Lou Figueroa
 
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lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here is how Nathan came across to me.

" There is nothing wrong with your television. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are now controlling the transmission. We control the horizontal and the vertical. We can deluge you with a thousand channels or expand one single image to crystal clarity and beyond. We can shape your vision to anything our imagination can conceive. For the next few hours we will control all that you see and hear. You are about to experience the awe and mystery which reaches from the deepest inner mind to the outer limits ".

Don


lol, I remember that one. Do you recall "One Step Beyond"? That used to really get to me when I was a kid.

Lou Figueroa
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Listen to this guy Nate. He spent his whole career spinning stories for the military. If anyone is fit to be a mentor on how to spin a negative into a positive then it's Lou. He is also even way way way better at turning positives into negatives.


Yeah, you're right, John. I was really good at getting up before a room full of reporters and cameras and talking about the crash of a B-52 or F-16 that killed my friends and colleagues. You really nailed me.

Lou Figueroa
 

Poolshootindon

Registered Pool Offender
Silver Member
Response from Nathan could have been

Lou, this is a situation where they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Nathan is only the messenger, yet he's getting pummeled to death on this forum with all kinds of replies, ranging from constructive criticism to personal attacks.

Yes, BB should have a PR spokesperson, but for whatever reason, they don't. Still, I don't think Nathan is deserving of some -- not all -- of the posts about BB. It is as if people are holding Nathan accountable.

At least he is attempting to address inquiries and concerns. It's more than what I've witnessed other industry members do, from reading this forum over the years. If Nathan did not reply, as some others industry members are wont to doing, he would still be getting slammed.

Jam..

All Nathan had to say in his first statement was " We at Bonus Ball are truly sorry for the problems that have occurred during the first 2 days of Bonus Ball.
Be assured that we are working on the problems and we will keep the fans updated on our continued effort to fix the problems".

Sounds simple enough.

Don
 

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Jam..

All Nathan had to say in his first statement was " We at Bonus Ball are truly sorry for the problems that have occurred during the first 2 days of Bonus Ball.
Be assured that we are working on the problems and we will keep the fans updated on our continued effort to fix the problems".

Sounds simple enough.

Don

If it had done *exactly* as you say, Don, I am sure somebody else on this forum would say he did say enough, too few words; in other words, he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. :eek:
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
Yeah, you're right, John. I was really good at getting up before a room full of reporters and cameras and talking about the crash of a B-52 or F-16 that killed my friends and colleagues. You really nailed me.

Lou Figueroa

Lou, if you can't take a little ribbing then don't dish it out. You have made your jabs hundreds of times.

Now you are piling on here. After all that's been said Nathan really needed your golden nugget of wisdom.
 

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I just realized...I've also been barking about some kinda follow on to the COM was about due now to give pool that 25 year (+/-) bump it needs...but now I see, that there could be a kick-as reality movie or show all about the making of BB, with all the pro players in it etc., being done concurrent with the business venture itself, and the outcome is still unknown etc...for better or worse, BB is one of the bigger stories in pool for quite a while now...maybe it could have been called...Bonus Ball Inside Out...doesn't anyone else here think that this is like an amazing Soap Opera type story that's unfolding right in front of our eyes...and we're not even seeing what the players themselves are thinking about it so far, (and other behind the scenes things), like would be part of the reality show/movie...(then also Nathan would be able to not only come to the forums, but also to be on camera too, with someone else doing the production, another nice little twist also)....


they aint doing a movie on pool anytime soon, they did good with COM and never did another one when the window was open in say 89, now with pool gone, kids on Facebook and video games, would you invest in a pool movie? or say Batman?
 

Poolshootindon

Registered Pool Offender
Silver Member
Maybe so

If it had done *exactly* as you say, Don, I am sure somebody else on this forum would say he did say enough, too few words; in other words, he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. :eek:

Jam.. What you say may be true. But at least it would not come across as arrogant.

And I bet my type of statement would have been accepted by more of the so called "haters" then you think.

I am not trying to blow my horn here. I am sure there are many more ways Nathan could have addressed the problem than just mine.

Just my simple minded way of addressing the problem.

Don
 
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