Info from Oscar for all the Brunswick lovers out there.
- Thread starter trob
- Start date
a great playing table is a must. simple as that.
but a table can be made in other countries that do better work. and a 10 grand table needs to have better craftsmanship.
china can make to good standards but are not known for that and what you see isn't indicative of whats inside.
but a table can be made in other countries that do better work. and a 10 grand table needs to have better craftsmanship.
china can make to good standards but are not known for that and what you see isn't indicative of whats inside.
This is great news. I talked a bit with Oscar at the Expo, basically begging him to get Brunswick back in the pro game. He said they were working on it.
1 piece slate and steel frame to me also means a quick setup table for tournament use. We know that was a game changer for Diamond, and every manufacturer should copy that these days, IMO.
Metal vs wood: Both can be made to play great as we all know. Just depends on the execution. Me personally, if I were designing a table from scratch, I'd probably go with bent steel sheetmetal or extruded aluminum, over wood. Both have economies of scale, extremely high strength to weight ratio, and can be very precisely manufactured at scale.
IMO, Brunswick lost market share mostly because they completely disappeared from the pro game for 20 years. Zero sponsorship, zero tournaments, zero promotion.
They were always priced the higetst, and about double Diamond in the late 90s. Today, Diamond is almost the price of a Gold Crown 6, so I don't see the price being that big of a sticking point for a consumer buying new, or for a commercial room.
At the end of the day, more competition is great for us. Competition is what brought Diamond tables into the game to begin with. Let's see what Brunswick can return with!
1 piece slate and steel frame to me also means a quick setup table for tournament use. We know that was a game changer for Diamond, and every manufacturer should copy that these days, IMO.
Metal vs wood: Both can be made to play great as we all know. Just depends on the execution. Me personally, if I were designing a table from scratch, I'd probably go with bent steel sheetmetal or extruded aluminum, over wood. Both have economies of scale, extremely high strength to weight ratio, and can be very precisely manufactured at scale.
IMO, Brunswick lost market share mostly because they completely disappeared from the pro game for 20 years. Zero sponsorship, zero tournaments, zero promotion.
They were always priced the higetst, and about double Diamond in the late 90s. Today, Diamond is almost the price of a Gold Crown 6, so I don't see the price being that big of a sticking point for a consumer buying new, or for a commercial room.
At the end of the day, more competition is great for us. Competition is what brought Diamond tables into the game to begin with. Let's see what Brunswick can return with!
Brunswick Balke Collender was it? Tiffanies of pool. Brand value still holding.
Incidentally, the notice mentions steel frame.
I like that Oscar mentioned his background with his father on installation of pool tables. He knows equipment well, and he's a great SME for Brunswick. I can't wait to see what unfolds.
Many old-school players do prefer GCs to other tables, though Diamond will always be a favorite of many.
Many old-school players do prefer GCs to other tables, though Diamond will always be a favorite of many.
I have no personal knowledge but I do know I oread a lot of installers complain about how poorly the current gold crowns are built. Nothing matching up and having to redrill holes and such. I get the feeling that Brunswick is owned by a company that only cares about the name and not so much about being the best in the world. as a person who loves the look and play of diamonds I would love to see Brunswick rise back to the top as a premier table maker.
now being one of the old guys in the pool scene around here lol I get asked about tables. I always tell people to me if your getting a 7 foot table diamond is the only choice but if your getting a 9 foot you can save yourself a ton of money buying a gold crown and you’ll be just as happy. They play great and will last forever and around here for 2k you can get one in great condition.
played on a New Brunswick Black Wolf recently- 9 foot - piece of garbage table IMO
Apple to oranges. Every iteration of the Black Wolf is inferior to the Gold Crown.
Poplar is about the cheapest hardwood there is. As it relates to the cost of a table it's almost meaningless in the overall cost of a table.
Having owned a sawmill myself, and having friends that are loggers, also having a friend that buys hardwood at the commercial level, you would be amazed at what hardwood lumber costs in commercial quantities. It's really quite cheap, not even remotely like what you pay for it in a store. The costs for lumber in a pool table are the glue ups, the machining and the finishing.
Actual material costs in a table are a very small part of the cost, although I honestly have no idea as to what slate cost them.
The real costs are the workers, the machining and finishing of it, and shipping and marketing. Actual materials for a 12k to 14k table, could be as little as 10%-15%.
Good insight. I still think steel would be cheaper to use and manufacture into a pool table frame vs Poplar.
Well- my point is any company that would turn out the Black Wolf table as advertised by them, I would not trust to produce a table of very good quality- it is NEVER apples to oranges when you are talking about one manufacturer and their willingness to currently produce junk and pass it off as something very good - how do you trust that same company to produce quality.
Apples to oranges is comparing a GC1 to a table that the current Brunswick company would produce today IMO!
The GCVI is a nice table and Brunswick has produced different levels of tables at different price points for decades. Not everyone can afford, or has the need, for a top of the line commercial grade table.
You have to give them some credit for bringing in a player like Oscar to go over their new table. Not only as a top player but his family background he has a lot to offer. Will they incorporate his suggestions, who knows but it was interesting seeing them pull a new table apart for a closer look for him.
These high end tables are all priced comparably, just coincidence, not hardly. Can they gain ground on Diamond, possibly, and as to tournaments will have to have a one piece slate version. There is more than just the table as it relates to tournaments though, and that is the backing of the manufacture. Don't think Diamond would roll over in the face of stiff competition. They are already selling tables as fast as they can make them.
Have to say the tables in Janet Atwell's place look really nice, and not just the tables, the whole place looks awesome. Why is it that the women pool players seem better at leveraging their pool fame vs the guys? There are lessons to be learned here.
These high end tables are all priced comparably, just coincidence, not hardly. Can they gain ground on Diamond, possibly, and as to tournaments will have to have a one piece slate version. There is more than just the table as it relates to tournaments though, and that is the backing of the manufacture. Don't think Diamond would roll over in the face of stiff competition. They are already selling tables as fast as they can make them.
Have to say the tables in Janet Atwell's place look really nice, and not just the tables, the whole place looks awesome. Why is it that the women pool players seem better at leveraging their pool fame vs the guys? There are lessons to be learned here.
I had a Brunswick Glenwood table for years before I got my Diamond. Nice table, but had the typical sag in the middle. When it came time to recover, and having a woodshop full of wood, I decided to see if I could correct that. Took some thinking as the two side to side beam pockets came to within a couple inches of the bottom of the side rails. Finally figured it out and I glued and screwed an additional 1" thick layer of maple along the whole inside of the skirts effectively doubling their thickness. It really made the table feel much more solid and the table level never changed or sagged after that. It was quite simple to do once I figured out how, and could easily do now, with just a jig saw and miter saw. You just needed to cut a side slot to closely go around the cross support structure in the additional framing, then after glueing that side support board to the factory skirt, I glued 45 deg wedges to go around the cross support brackets to better transfer the load to the new additional side support. Was a great table after that, but I am happy I bought my Diamond
Give him a break. Those asian cars all look alike. **Ducks and runs for cover**
I just saw this video on Oscar's FB page. It looks like the GC7 prototype is barely visible in the background, with Mark Gregory working on it! Good stuff
