Interesting action game that took place at hardtimes

D

dundeewizard

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
2 men were betting against each other that the one guy whom I'll refer to as the "shooter" could nto make 20 balls or more in 5 racks but all the balls had to be made in one of the bottom pockets similar to one pocket.

The bet was intitally $20 then went up to 50 and eventaully I believe it was for $2000.
It ended with the shooter 10g down but was even more surprisng to me was the way the shooter continued to break. The shooter was breaking the same as a traditional one pocket break and sponngin the cue ball to the center of the table. There was no restrictions on how to break so this was baffling especially as he was never winning. I understand not doing the full on head ball blast break as a scratch or any miss and the rack was over but I think the 8 ball 2nd ball break would have been the best way to go.

Anyone seen this game before and is it a con match? I think it is much harder than it looks from the rail.
 
Just another stupid trendy and hipster style of playing. He probably wanted to be looked like a genius for doing that. A traditional 8 ball break would be better.

I remember playing some guy at a weekly tournament. We were playing 9 ball and he broke the ball soft like one pocket style. He was a better player than I was but I took offense to that and destroyed him.

Another instance, of trying to be smarter than you are.
 
dom_poppa said:
Just another stupid trendy and hipster style of playing. He probably wanted to be looked like a genius for doing that. A traditional 8 ball break would be better.

I remember playing some guy at a weekly tournament. We were playing 9 ball and he broke the ball soft like one pocket style. He was a better player than I was but I took offense to that and destroyed him.

Another instance, of trying to be smarter than you are.
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Trendy hipster, eh?

That insult is lawnmower
 
Yea...trendy and hipster.

You know those type of people who drink their flavored and fruity beer, if it is mainstream than it is not cool to them. You see these types at pool halls.

I pretty much can drink any beer and don't need those flavored sweet beers.
 
One Pocket challenge game.
break balls. shoot as many balls into your pocket as possible.

Usually there is a number (say 20 balls) that the shooter is trying to pocket in less than 3 racks. Any miss and the rack is over.

example, 3 racks ; rack # 1, only makes 4 balls, rack#2 7 balls, rack 3 8 balls total is 4+7+8= 19 balls. game over.

They did this at the Derby a few years ago where the shooter got 5 racks and the most balls made was 42 by Gabe Owen, IIRC.

btw, the shooter is a very good ball maker and just as good with getting shape. It is a tough game, it wouldn't surprise me had it gone the other way
 
dom_poppa said:
Yea...trendy and hipster.

You know those type of people who drink their flavored and fruity beer, if it is mainstream than it is not cool to them.
.
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Hmmph ... trendy and hipster, interesting. I always thought those were democrats. :scratchhead:
 
dom_poppa said:
Just another stupid trendy and hipster style of playing. He probably wanted to be looked like a genius for doing that. A traditional 8 ball break would be better.

I remember playing some guy at a weekly tournament. We were playing 9 ball and he broke the ball soft like one pocket style. He was a better player than I was but I took offense to that and destroyed him.

Another instance, of trying to be smarter than you are.
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from your posts i find it hard to believe you actually play pool. :rolleyes:
 
dom_poppa said:
Just another stupid trendy and hipster style of playing. He probably wanted to be looked like a genius for doing that. A traditional 8 ball break would be better.

I remember playing some guy at a weekly tournament. We were playing 9 ball and he broke the ball soft like one pocket style. He was a better player than I was but I took offense to that and destroyed him.

Another instance, of trying to be smarter than you are.
Click to expand...

I've bet against Corey Deuel doing this in my local room (although a much higher number than 20 was his target), as well as several top local level players (A and Opens). Also seen it at DCC they had this exact challenge a few years ago. Of all these top level local and professional players, not a single one of them used a "traditional 8 ball break", or anything even remotely close to it.
 
iusedtoberich said:
I've bet against Corey Deuel doing this in my local room (although a much higher number than 20 was his target), as well as several top local level players (A and Opens). Also seen it at DCC they had this exact challenge a few years ago. Of all these top level local and professional players, not a single one of them used a "traditional 8 ball break", or anything even remotely close to it.
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How do you handle a scratch (cue ball in the pocket) on the break?
 
I would hit it with a mdium hit cut break. Take the cueball of the rail below side pocket. Better to scatter a few balls up table than risk tie ups or tough shots to your corner. I would expect to get 20 pretty easily. Maybe I am just anorher sucker. I wouldnt scratch so averaging 4+ a rack seems pretty doable.
 
iusedtoberich said:
I've bet against Corey Deuel doing this in my local room (although a much higher number than 20 was his target), as well as several top local level players (A and Opens). Also seen it at DCC they had this exact challenge a few years ago. Of all these top level local and professional players, not a single one of them used a "traditional 8 ball break", or anything even remotely close to it.
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If you had to make a very high number of balls, it would be best to use a soft break because any balls that end up close to the oppsing pocket are out of play. But in the OP's case, the shooter only needed to make 4 balls per rack, so that problem would not usually come into play.
 
This is the standard one pocket ghost game it sounds like.

Here's a copy and paste of a 2008 Jay Helfert post:

The entry fee is $50. For this, the player gets three tries at the "Ghost". Each try/turn consists of five attempts to run as many balls as possible into one corner pocket. So a player will get 15 total attempts for his entry fee. Understand?

The player can break any way he wants, and he shoots from where the cue ball stops. He shoots until he misses, and that is the end of one attempt. Then he re-racks and takes his second attempt. After five attempts, we add up all the balls he has made and that is his score for that turn. Got it?

If a player scratches on the break, he loses one ball and gets ball in hand behind the line. He can only make 14 points this time max, if he runs them all. Any balls made in other pockets, stay down until all the other balls have been pocketed. Then they respot.

This was at the DCC. Allen Hopkins showed some of the younger players his way of breaking in this game a few years back as well, IIRC.

The best possible score for five attempts is 75, five perfect 15's. Gabe shot a 60 last year. I'm betting no one beats it this year or any year for a long, long time. It will be a record kind of like Babe Ruth's 60 Home Runs.
And I don't think steroids will help you on this one.
 
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Scratch loses on ball, but gets you ball in hand in kitchen. Seems like a strange reward for scratching.

I will play with this a little, but 20 sure seems pretty easy. Gerring 8 or more per break is excellent. 12 average like Gabe did is super strong.
 
This is an old proposition shot I recall seeing attempted on a bar box back in the early 80s by a very good player. I think it's one of those prop shots that you may pull off once in a while but odds are......you won't more often. Would love to see someone put up money for Efren to try it.
 
takeitdown said:
Scratch loses on ball, but gets you ball in hand in kitchen. Seems like a strange reward for scratching.

I will play with this a little, but 20 sure seems pretty easy. Gerring 8 or more per break is excellent. 12 average like Gabe did is super strong.
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The pockets at Hard Times, Sacramento are tough, and I was there til 6am when he got it down to 1k stuck, playing for 1k with five tries. I had been playing in he tournament and when we quit, I went home.

He was going to 14 or 15 after starting at 20 and getting stuck. Very tough game to come back on, especially on tough equipment.

Going to 20 on these tables would be like going to 25 on most tables.
 
I think that is a good break, we played around with it last night also breaking head ball medium left us in quite good shape usually guarantted at least one or two off the break. Amazing how important the break is
 
mnb said:
How do you handle a scratch (cue ball in the pocket) on the break?
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Masayoshi said:
If you had to make a very high number of balls, it would be best to use a soft break because any balls that end up close to the oppsing pocket are out of play. But in the OP's case, the shooter only needed to make 4 balls per rack, so that problem would not usually come into play.
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mnb: Its been several years, but I think I recall any scratch, including the break, was a loss of that trial, and a re-rack.

Massayoshi: I do not personally think the break strategy changes whether you are going to 10 balls or 40 balls in 5 attempts. Btw, unless you have seen this in person, its hard to believe how GOOD a player needs to be to get 20 balls in 5 attempts. I mean a really GOOD player. Try it out at with your locals sometime to see for yourself.


If anyone ever has the chance to bet against Corey or Gabe doing this, it will be money well spent. You will see the best shooting you have ever see in in your life. Circus shot after circus shot is what will happen, and you won't believe what is possible to pocket by these top guys when they are going all out offense. Watching Corey play this ghost was the most entertaining pool I've ever witnessed, bar none.
 
iusedtoberich said:
mnb: Watching Corey play this ghost was the most entertaining pool I've ever witnessed, bar none.
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When Jay was running the 1P Challenge out of the AZB room at the derby, I watched quite a few attempts from several players....but watching Corey come up with some of the shots he shoots is mind boggling!! I was sitting next to Schmidtty and we were both left with our mouths agape....several times. John's no schlub at it either, but Corey sees things that just don't appear to be there. Wish I coulda recorded our banter back and forth about Corey's shooting. He had a couple of 15s with shots no one else would have seen, much less tried em if they had :eek:

BTW, breaking HARD is NOT the way to go in this kind of game. just hit it hard enough not to hide the balls on your side with the stack (meaning, get whitey back out to the middle of the table).
 
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