interesting observation

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was playing a top player last night getting my nuts shot off, my freind from Zimbabwe was watching, he has very little exposier to pool, there just isnt much pool in Africa.

He has seen me beat him a couple times a few years ago, I played good against him but not great several years ago and I explained how I was looking at the patterns and moving the CB to set up the run-out. Simple position play that a C player would understand. When I showed him what I was doing he clearly understood why and how. He is very smart to say the least, he is a professional hunter and is a mechnic on cars as well.


After my nightly beating he commented to me "All I saw was a bunch of balls going every which way" This was hardly the case I was playing a top player and he was just running out on me nothing fancy playing 9 ball-he didnt miss often, I played bad, my back wasnt the problem I just played bad, but my point is here is a 34 year old man who is handy with a gun, mechnics etc and has seen basically no pool in his life and to him it looked like a mess of balls on the table when infact it was a champion playing tight shape very good, not bangers where it is a mess of balls.

I thought about that for a while and realized that thats what most people see when they watch pool and why it dosent sell, look at the NBA, NFL, MLB and golf and soccer, all those games have a simple objective get the ball in 1 or 2 holes or to the end of the field, pool is much more complicated at first glance, since people for the most part,me too, like it the easy way they are attracted to simple games and side step complicated ones, seen chess on TV recently??? same thing for pool its just to much, I told him the objective but he couldnt make sence of it, and thats why pool is where its at, KT had it right 8ball because more people "get-it" with that game but to people like my friend who has never been exposed to it they wont take the time to learn it,


I explained to him that who I was playing was a elite player, he thought I was, I cleared that up fast, i said I'm a accomplished player but far from elite, he replied "how do you understand whats going on?" thats from a very smart well travelled person, pool is to complicated to be self taught for the masses learn and become fans like the major sports, NBA 2 teams 2 holes 1 ball, you do the math.....


they did get into socity in the UK and a few other countrys but that was long ago in simpler times, we have a uphill battle to say the least. what ever happened to bumper pool tables in the Sears and Wards catalogs???
 
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Those who do play pool in Zimbabwe, South Africa and some other states in that area play almost exclusively on Uk style pool tables at Uk style 8 ball and using Uk style 8 ball rules (mostly 'Blackball' rules as issued by the WPA) and red/yellow sets of balls.

One form of the Uk style 8 ball World Championships is due to be held in Swaziland in Africa later this year.

Disagree that 9 ball pool is complicated, what can be simpler than progressing from 1 to 9? It would surely be fairer to say that the game was specifically designed with morons in mind;) :)
 
Fatboy said:
I was playing a top player last night getting my nuts shot off, my freind from Zimbabwe was watching, he has very little exposier to pool, there just isnt much pool in Africa.

He has seen me beat him a couple times a few years ago, I played good against him but not great several years ago and I explained how I was looking at the patterns and moving the CB to set up the run-out. Simple position play that a C player would understand. When I showed him what I was doing he clearly understood why and how. He is very smart to say the least, he is a professional hunter and is a mechnic on cars as well.


After my nightly beating he commented to me "All I saw was a bunch of balls going every which way" This was hardly the case I was playing a top player and he was just running out on me nothing fancy playing 9 ball-he didnt miss often, I played bad, my back wasnt the problem I just played bad, but my point is here is a 34 year old man who is handy with a gun, mechnics etc and has seen basically no pool in his life and to him it looked like a mess of balls on the table when infact it was a champion playing tight shape very good, not bangers where it is a mess of balls.

I thought about that for a while and realized that thats what most people see when they watch pool and why it dosent sell, look at the NBA, NFL, MLB and golf and soccer, all those games have a simple objective get the ball in 1 or 2 holes or to the end of the field, pool is much more complicated at first glance, since people for the most part,me too, like it the easy way they are attracted to simple games and side step complicated ones, seen chess on TV recently??? same thing for pool its just to much, I told him the objective but he couldnt make sence of it, and thats why pool is where its at, KT had it right 8ball because more people "get-it" with that game but to people like my friend who has never been exposed to it they wont take the time to learn it,


I explained to him that who I was playing was a elite player, he thought I was, I cleared that up fast, i said I'm a accomplished player but far from elite, he replied "how do you understand whats going on?" thats from a very smart well travelled person, pool is to complicated to be self taught for the masses learn and become fans like the major sports, NBA 2 teams 2 holes 1 ball, you do the math.....


they did get into socity in the UK and a few other countrys but that was long ago in simpler times, we have a uphill battle to say the least. what ever happened to bumper pool tables in the Sears and Wards catalogs???


They were located by the bra and panties and if you raised boys you couldn't flip to them easily cause the pages stuck together, so, they were deleted due to poor sales.
 
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Good stuff, Fatboy.

Kind of similar to the introduction to Target Pool where Kim Davenport talks of a spectator approaching him after an exhibition and asking what was so hard about the game, since he all he had were "easy" shots. Kim responded, "Because I made them that way."

The uninitiated either think that pro pool is a bunch of trick shots after another or is simply an easy game they could master if "they had the time to practice" or "had their own table." (How many times have we heard that?)
 
It's the uneducated view of pool that needs changing. I suggested in another thread that a TV show hosted by top player/commentaters would be useful. Every few shots the commentators would demonstrate a shot that was just made and show how the cb would have rolled with natural center ball and how it's course was changed by spinning it in some manner.
 
Fatboy said:
I was playing a top player last night getting my nuts shot off, my freind from Zimbabwe was watching, he has very little exposier to pool, there just isnt much pool in Africa.

He has seen me beat him a couple times a few years ago, I played good against him but not great several years ago and I explained how I was looking at the patterns and moving the CB to set up the run-out. Simple position play that a C player would understand. When I showed him what I was doing he clearly understood why and how. He is very smart to say the least, he is a professional hunter and is a mechnic on cars as well.


After my nightly beating he commented to me "All I saw was a bunch of balls going every which way" This was hardly the case I was playing a top player and he was just running out on me nothing fancy playing 9 ball-he didnt miss often, I played bad, my back wasnt the problem I just played bad, but my point is here is a 34 year old man who is handy with a gun, mechnics etc and has seen basically no pool in his life and to him it looked like a mess of balls on the table when infact it was a champion playing tight shape very good, not bangers where it is a mess of balls.

I thought about that for a while and realized that thats what most people see when they watch pool and why it dosent sell, look at the NBA, NFL, MLB and golf and soccer, all those games have a simple objective get the ball in 1 or 2 holes or to the end of the field, pool is much more complicated at first glance, since people for the most part,me too, like it the easy way they are attracted to simple games and side step complicated ones, seen chess on TV recently??? same thing for pool its just to much, I told him the objective but he couldnt make sence of it, and thats why pool is where its at, KT had it right 8ball because more people "get-it" with that game but to people like my friend who has never been exposed to it they wont take the time to learn it,


I explained to him that who I was playing was a elite player, he thought I was, I cleared that up fast, i said I'm a accomplished player but far from elite, he replied "how do you understand whats going on?" thats from a very smart well travelled person, pool is to complicated to be self taught for the masses learn and become fans like the major sports, NBA 2 teams 2 holes 1 ball, you do the math.....


they did get into socity in the UK and a few other countrys but that was long ago in simpler times, we have a uphill battle to say the least. what ever happened to bumper pool tables in the Sears and Wards catalogs???

The solution is spot shot tournaments!

Even the trick shot guys have a better spectator setup. "Let's play pool table H-O-R-S-E!"
 
Klopek...There are plenty of avenues for instruction here in the U.S. What's missing is the "attitude" that people NEED (and can benefit from) instruction! :rolleyes: :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Klopek said:
That's why in Europe and Asia there's instruction, so they start on the right footing and they can appreciate the game.
 
i got bad rep for this thread, my first one in over a year????:confused: :confused: :confused: it was just an obsrvation not my my opinion, pool is difficult to understnand for some people, it came easy to me to under stand, i just suck at it.
 
Fatboy said:
After my nightly beating he commented to me "All I saw was a bunch of balls going every which way"

Because he is from another country I am willing to give your friend a bit of a pass on this one, however...

All he has done is stripped a GAME down to its fundamental core, and I would suspect because he wasn't that interested in it. Maybe politely interested, but not really interested.

I hate ice hockey... Despise it... Silliest game ever to me...

When I see it played it is just a bunch of men in stuffed suits skating and falling on frozen water. Have I missed the nuances and complexities of the game. Of course I have. Because I don't care.

Any game can be stripped down to its essentials and appear pretty silly in comparison to other more important things. They are after all games.

But, if you read or listen to elite players of any game and the stories of how they became interested in that game you will see a definite pattern.

Usually as children they watched adults play and became entranced by the COMPLEXITY of the movements and NUANCES of the strategy.

They cared enough to look past the bare core and find what is great about the game.

Pool isn't for everyone. You can't force feed it to the masses.

Some people will never care enough to look past "a bunch of balls going every which way."

What pool needs is an angle (in my opinion a personality or pop culture awakening) that will prod the average person to try and see what the nuances and complexities of the game are.

It may not work for even 20% of the people, but if it works for even 10% you have increased your KNOWLEDGEABLE interested patron base by that much and the process can start over again with a new angle.

The answers to pool's perception problems won't be answered overnight...

Attrition is the answer.
 
I'm not sure that typical football fans understand the game to the extent that they see a trap when one is played. I'm not sure that casual basketball fans see all the back-side screens that are set or faked. I'm not sure your average baseball fan understands the curcumstances that make a squeeze play an acceptable risk. We players know our games, but many fans do not and I can empathise with your friend and his perspective on our game. Just my thoughts on fans, the games they watch, and the complexities involved.

Dave

<edit, cause I was typing while McKinneyMiner wrote his reply> A lot of hockey fans don't see the breakout patterns played into a single or dual back-checker situation :).
 
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DaveK said:
I'm not sure that typical football fans understand the game to the extent that they see a trap when one is played. I'm not sure that casual basketball fans see all the back-side screens that are set or faked. I'm not sure your average baseball fan understands the curcumstances that make a squeeze play an acceptable risk.

That's my point...

What makes a novice fan want to learn as much as they can about any given game?

I have no interest in hockey, so it just seems silly to me.

But if hockey could somehow get me interested enough to want to be a knowldgeable fan they might be successful in converting one of the unbelievers. That's their job.

Now how can we as a community get the average American interested enough to at least give the complexities a chance?
 
Fatboy said:
I was playing a top player last night getting my nuts shot off, my freind from Zimbabwe was watching, he has very little exposier to pool, there just isnt much pool in Africa.

He has seen me beat him a couple times a few years ago, I played good against him but not great several years ago and I explained how I was looking at the patterns and moving the CB to set up the run-out. Simple position play that a C player would understand. When I showed him what I was doing he clearly understood why and how. He is very smart to say the least, he is a professional hunter and is a mechnic on cars as well.


After my nightly beating he commented to me "All I saw was a bunch of balls going every which way" This was hardly the case I was playing a top player and he was just running out on me nothing fancy playing 9 ball-he didnt miss often, I played bad, my back wasnt the problem I just played bad, but my point is here is a 34 year old man who is handy with a gun, mechnics etc and has seen basically no pool in his life and to him it looked like a mess of balls on the table when infact it was a champion playing tight shape very good, not bangers where it is a mess of balls.

I thought about that for a while and realized that thats what most people see when they watch pool and why it dosent sell, look at the NBA, NFL, MLB and golf and soccer, all those games have a simple objective get the ball in 1 or 2 holes or to the end of the field, pool is much more complicated at first glance, since people for the most part,me too, like it the easy way they are attracted to simple games and side step complicated ones, seen chess on TV recently??? same thing for pool its just to much, I told him the objective but he couldnt make sence of it, and thats why pool is where its at, KT had it right 8ball because more people "get-it" with that game but to people like my friend who has never been exposed to it they wont take the time to learn it,


I explained to him that who I was playing was a elite player, he thought I was, I cleared that up fast, i said I'm a accomplished player but far from elite, he replied "how do you understand whats going on?" thats from a very smart well travelled person, pool is to complicated to be self taught for the masses learn and become fans like the major sports, NBA 2 teams 2 holes 1 ball, you do the math.....


they did get into socity in the UK and a few other countrys but that was long ago in simpler times, we have a uphill battle to say the least. what ever happened to bumper pool tables in the Sears and Wards catalogs???

Maybe demolition pool is the answer... shoot/fight...shoot/fight. It works for Hockey.:D
 
McKinneyMiner said:
That's my point...

What makes a novice fan want to learn as much as they can about any given game?

I have no interest in hockey, so it just seems silly to me.

But if hockey could somehow get me interested enough to want to be a knowldgeable fan they might be successful in converting one of the unbelievers. That's their job.

Now how can we as a community get the average American interested enough to at least give the complexities a chance?
Went to the fights one night and a hockey game broke out !
 
Focus on the personalities

McKinneyMiner said:
That's my point...

What makes a novice fan want to learn as much as they can about any given game?

I have no interest in hockey, so it just seems silly to me.

But if hockey could somehow get me interested enough to want to be a knowldgeable fan they might be successful in converting one of the unbelievers. That's their job.

Now how can we as a community get the average American interested enough to at least give the complexities a chance?

The trend in televised sports is to focus more on the personalities and less on the actual game being played. This gives casual viewers a reason to watch, other than the game.

Witness player introductions in NFL telecasts. Now the players introduce themselves and say what school they're from or some tidbit about their teammates. Even poker coverage (especially ESPN) is full of "up close and personal" moments.

As a diehard sports fan it drives me absolutley crazy, but you can't argure with the success.

Pool has plenty of "personalities" that I believe would draw interest on TV. If we just had a regularly scheduled venue to present them.

Once you've got regular viewers you can slowly educate them on the intricacies of the game.

MM
 
Fatboy said:
I was playing a top player last night getting my nuts shot off, my freind from Zimbabwe was watching, he has very little exposier to pool, there just isnt much pool in Africa.

He has seen me beat him a couple times a few years ago, I played good against him but not great several years ago and I explained how I was looking at the patterns and moving the CB to set up the run-out. Simple position play that a C player would understand. When I showed him what I was doing he clearly understood why and how. He is very smart to say the least, he is a professional hunter and is a mechnic on cars as well.


After my nightly beating he commented to me "All I saw was a bunch of balls going every which way" This was hardly the case I was playing a top player and he was just running out on me nothing fancy playing 9 ball-he didnt miss often, I played bad, my back wasnt the problem I just played bad, but my point is here is a 34 year old man who is handy with a gun, mechnics etc and has seen basically no pool in his life and to him it looked like a mess of balls on the table when infact it was a champion playing tight shape very good, not bangers where it is a mess of balls.

I thought about that for a while and realized that thats what most people see when they watch pool and why it dosent sell, look at the NBA, NFL, MLB and golf and soccer, all those games have a simple objective get the ball in 1 or 2 holes or to the end of the field, pool is much more complicated at first glance, since people for the most part,me too, like it the easy way they are attracted to simple games and side step complicated ones, seen chess on TV recently??? same thing for pool its just to much, I told him the objective but he couldnt make sence of it, and thats why pool is where its at, KT had it right 8ball because more people "get-it" with that game but to people like my friend who has never been exposed to it they wont take the time to learn it,


I explained to him that who I was playing was a elite player, he thought I was, I cleared that up fast, i said I'm a accomplished player but far from elite, he replied "how do you understand whats going on?" thats from a very smart well travelled person, pool is to complicated to be self taught for the masses learn and become fans like the major sports, NBA 2 teams 2 holes 1 ball, you do the math.....


they did get into socity in the UK and a few other countrys but that was long ago in simpler times, we have a uphill battle to say the least. what ever happened to bumper pool tables in the Sears and Wards catalogs???

I'm not sure if you're right about it being too complicated to be self-taught for the masses to learn or not but I'll send you some rep for the interesting perspective.

Did your explanation about who you were playing and what he was doing stimulate your friend's interest in the game or did he simply catalog your comments and go on his way?

JoeyA
 
What do you guys think of something like this being on TV every now and then, as format to showcase pro pool players' skills for the spectators...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZBGRhT6DSGo

It has the following elements that I think the masses, who are not knowledgeable about pool, can relate to:

1. All 15 balls being used.
2. Bar table with big pockets is appropriate equipment for this.
3. Spectacular shots.
4. Position play is crucial but even if that is overlooked by the spectators, it doesn't really matter.
5. Lots of ball "action".

I'm not saying it's the future of pool or anything, but it would be a cool side show during the airing of a pool match, or maybe even for it's own half hour slot here and there.

Here are the original threads on this challenge:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=62583
http://pl.cuetable.com/showthread.php?t=732
 
Cuebacca said:
5. Lots of ball "action".

Also, I think that if this ever were on TV, someone would need to point out to the audience that there is a method to the madness, so they wouldn't just think it's balls flying around looking for a pocket. Perhaps the shooter can briefly describe their goal before each shot, even if slop is permitted.
 
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