Interesting safety exchange between SVB and Deuel

bpeacock said:
What was Shane talking about at 1:07:45? What is the definition of 1 of each? Corey made 2 solids and a stripe. So his argument is that Corey should have taken solids? I haven't heard of that one.
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Shane was saying that because more solids were made than strips on the break, Cory had to take the solids, the table was no longer open. Cory was saying that because he made at least one ball of each group, the table was still open until he legally pocketed a ball to determine if he was shooting strips or solids.
 
iusedtoberich said:
That must have been a long time ago! Shane had hair, and Corey won the set:)
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the rule in that match was that you had to do the 2nd ball break. I think Corey would probably still be the favorite with such rules- he is the best at that break and is a great bar table 8 ball player.

I think the match took place in 2008- so yes, now that's 15 years ago!
 
bpeacock said:
What was Shane talking about at 1:07:45? What is the definition of 1 of each? Corey made 2 solids and a stripe. So his argument is that Corey should have taken solids? I haven't heard of that one.
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The Accu Stats Make It Happen 8 Ball Invitational tournament had that rule too- that you have to take whatever the higher number of balls you made on the break. Obviously, if even- then it's your choice. I don't think Corey and SVB had clarified that rule beforehand in this match though
 
westcoast said:
The Accu Stats Make It Happen 8 Ball Invitational tournament had that rule too- that you have to take whatever the higher number of balls you made on the break. Obviously, if even- then it's your choice. ...
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Accu-Stats held 4 Make-It-Happen Invitationals for 8-Ball.
• In the first two, in 2012 and 2014, the table was open after the break.​
• In the last two, in 2016 and 2017, it was as you say -- take the group you make more of on the break (table open if breaker made same number of each group, or fouled, or broke dry)​
 
westcoast said:
the rule in that match was that you had to do the 2nd ball break. I think Corey would probably still be the favorite with such rules- he is the best at that break and is a great bar table 8 ball player.

I think the match took place in 2008- so yes, now that's 15 years ago!
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he's a great 8-ball player on any table. corey's patterns are impeccable, him and darren are probably still the best in that regard. i hope to see both at the upcoming world 8b championship
 
maha said:
but the causal watcher wouldnt get to see it as he would have turned if off by then. that's the point.
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I enjoy watching pool but after seeing that safety fiasco I turned it off. I didn't even realize there was a match after the exchange.

This is literally the type of safety battles you see between two C players that just found out what a safety was. We used to have a league rule that you couldn't use the same rail contact on this type of safety. I forget the exact rule as it was a house rule for the league but it was maybe you could only use the same rail as a contact rail 2 or 3 shots in a row.

There's a reason they went to 3 cushion in billiards. Nobody wants to watch an extended session of nursing the ball. Imagine some dude scoring 300 points doing this. 😴

Sure, it takes more skill than most mere mortals have but night night.
 
realkingcobra said:
For all those calling fouls during this exchange of chess, do any of you really think that Shane or Cory don't know what a foul is, really??? Either one of them would be the FIRST to call a foul, and win the chess game, and the the player that fouled would know it, and accept the defeat!!!
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And yet, they used several illegal strokes, so they did not know what a foul was in that case. From how they played them, it's not so much that they ignored or hid the foul, the did not seem to know how they shot the shot was illegal in the first place. It's a shot that many gamblers and old school players would have tried, but it's illegal if you use the rulebook.
 
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realkingcobra said:
You guys all missed what they were trying to do! The problem was the table. When you have spray glue build up on the slate, you can't get the cue ball to sit frozen to the rail, and that's what they were trying to do. Who ever could stick the cue ball to the rail first, would force the incoming player to have to make contact with another rail, or commit a foul, ball in hand!!
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No one missed what they were trying to do, it's pretty clear they were trying to get the other player to force a mistake, which is kinda the point of safeties.
 
boogieman said:
I enjoy watching pool but after seeing that safety fiasco I turned it off. I didn't even realize there was a match after the exchange.

This is literally the type of safety battles you see between two C players that just found out what a safety was. We used to have a league rule that you couldn't use the same rail contact on this type of safety. I forget the exact rule as it was a house rule for the league but it was maybe you could only use the same rail as a contact rail 2 or 3 shots in a row.

There's a reason they went to 3 cushion in billiards. Nobody wants to watch an extended session of nursing the ball. Imagine some dude scoring 300 points doing this. 😴

Sure, it takes more skill than most mere mortals have but night night.
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They were playing the right shot to win the rack, I don't see an issue with what they were trying to do. They were not playing for an audience, but to play the match and win. I always said that the players should play the right shot and play at their pace, not what some outside person wants to see. I don't yell at my mechanic to change the tires faster or do to it while juggling or doing handstands, we should not complain the players play how they play. Most games are not for show but for the result, it's not like they were producing something for MTV or ESPN and needed flash and exitement.
 
hang-the-9 said:
They were playing the right shot to win the rack, I don't see an issue with what they were trying to do. They were not playing for an audience, but to play the match and win. I always said that the players should play the right shot and play at their pace, not what some outside person wants to see. I don't yell at my mechanic to change the tires faster or do to it while juggling or doing handstands, we should not complain the players play how they play. Most games are not for show but for the result, it's not like they were producing something for MTV or ESPN and needed flash and exitement.
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I agree- particularly because this was a gambling match that just happened to be filmed. It would be different if it were a streamed or televised tournament match
 
generally, gambling you dont call those petty fouls on the other player. its an un written rule in gambling.
the other player will just deny it and quit the game.

as long as your tip touches the cue ball its a shot, not how you make it happen. just because some organization makes rules doesnt mean they are followed outside the tournament.
 
maha said:
generally, gambling you dont call those petty fouls on the other player. its an un written rule in gambling.
the other player will just deny it and quit the game.

as long as your tip touches the cue ball its a shot, not how you make it happen. just because some organization makes rules doesnt mean they are followed outside the tournament.
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You meant ....generally while gambling(stealing) you would let your sucker get away with that kind of crap. If you let them play like that-you get to do the same. Besides you don't want to lose your pigeon.
Tell me I am wrong.😉
 
realkingcobra said:
Shane was saying that because more solids were made than strips on the break, Cory had to take the solids, the table was no longer open. Cory was saying that because he made at least one ball of each group, the table was still open until he legally pocketed a ball to determine if he was shooting strips or solids.
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Looked to me like Shane was tired of watching him run racks and decided to try and break his rhythm with nonsensical fake news arguments.
 
maha said:
generally, gambling you dont call those petty fouls on the other player. its an un written rule in gambling.
the other player will just deny it and quit the game.

as long as your tip touches the cue ball its a shot, not how you make it happen. just because some organization makes rules doesnt mean they are followed outside the tournament.
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So who decides what rules are followed and when? All the rules are written down by the WPA at some point and developed over the years. Where is the line on a foul that is called and ignored? Using 3 fouls to win a game may be a "petty foul", be a man and run out, or a safe in general is considered to be verboten to play by many non-educated players. I don't see how ignoring the rules benefits anyone unless they set up a modified rule set ahead of time for gambling vs normal play. Then they can say "how you hit the ball does not matter" or "you can climb on the table with both feet", etc... Two pro players, they should know and follow pretty much every tiny rule the WPA and BCA has for a legal stroke and play in general.
 
gamblers know the local rules of the room. if new you get to ask about them.
a few rooms let you climb on the table. some let you knock a ball off the table and no foul others dont.
some use the 45 degree rule for double hits. some say a piece of chalk distance. most just tell the player before the shot what he has to do. most dont use the 3 foul rule unless stated or told its in effect early on.

been doing this for 6 decades and never see any argument over the rules.
if you want wpa or some or all tournament rules to be enforced just tell your opponent before you start the game.
no problem.
 
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