Interesting tidbit on yellow Micarta

Tommy-D

Tommy-D

World's best B player...
Silver Member
> I recently joined the Practical Machinist forum,and got some info I didn't expect.

The thread was about the company Raybestos,and whether or not they were still openly selling asbestos-based products.

I mentioned that because of the asbestos content,that we couldn't get Westinghouse/GE Micarta any more in the original form. I was told that in fact that it wasn't made of asbestos to start with,rather high-quality linen or Kraft paper,and VARNISH.

I don't really have any basis to disagree with him,his status over there is like Mike Webb's status as the man to go to for oddball taps here,LOL. I think he worked for them.

If anyone wants,I can cut/paste the whole thing here,or throw up the link. Tommy D
 
Tommy-D said:
> I recently joined the Practical Machinist forum,and got some info I didn't expect.

The thread was about the company Raybestos,and whether or not they were still openly selling asbestos-based products.

I mentioned that because of the asbestos content,that we couldn't get Westinghouse/GE Micarta any more in the original form. I was told that in fact that it wasn't made of asbestos to start with,rather high-quality linen or Kraft paper,and VARNISH.

I don't really have any basis to disagree with him,his status over there is like Mike Webb's status as the man to go to for oddball taps here,LOL. I think he worked for them.

If anyone wants,I can cut/paste the whole thing here,or throw up the link. Tommy D
Click to expand...


Yeah their brake Pads & shoes were loaded with It.

The WH micarta I have no idea on though, other then what I've been told, which is probably the same info you previously had.

Dale seems to know alot about the stuff, maybe He will see this and chime in.
 
Ask that guy if he would be willing to cut it without a mask to support his claim . . . :nono:

Oh Pdcue . . .
 
Mr Hoppe said:
Ask that guy if he would be willing to cut it without a mask to support his claim . . . :nono:

Oh Pdcue . . .
Click to expand...

You rang?

Once again,
Micarta is/was a registerd trademark name used by Westinghouse
for its line of industrial plastics. The name is now owned by Norplex.

The 'old yellow Micarta', so sought after by many for ferrules was
quite a bit different from the rest of the line.

First, it wasn't a phenolic.
It isn't laminated - tho it is reinforced.
It was never manufactured in rod form<rolled rod>
It was also never made by GE
- tho they may have made something similar.

Westinghouse quit producing it about 20 years ago. From the
'it's a small world' file, the product that replaced 'yellow Micarta'
for most applications is G10.

Dale<Micarta wise and pound foolish>
 
pdcue said:
You rang?

Once again,
Micarta is/was a registerd trademark name used by Westinghouse
for its line of industrial plastics. The name is now owned by Norplex.

The 'old yellow Micarta', so sought after by many for ferrules was
quite a bit different from the rest of the line.

First, it wasn't a phenolic.
It isn't laminated - tho it is reinforced.
It was never manufactured in rod form<rolled rod>
It was also never made by GE
- tho they may have made something similar.

Westinghouse quit producing it about 20 years ago. From the
'it's a small world' file, the product that replaced 'yellow Micarta'
for most applications is G10.

Dale<Micarta wise and pound foolish>
Click to expand...

Dale ...can you expand on this a little more?
I have always been under the impression that the old yellowing micarta was a linen based material. I guess I base this on what everyone calls old yellow micarta when describing the type of ferrules used by Jerry Franklin and some others on their older cues.
Some time ago I purchased a piece from an individual that swears it is the old yellow micarta but it does not have a linen weave at all. I guess maybe a paper based material? It was supposedly cut round from flat stock and when the end of it is cut you can see a slight difference in the yellow color being darker around the outside of the piece so it does darken with exposure.

<~~~still learning with many questions..................
 
BarenbruggeCues said:
Dale ...can you expand on this a little more?
I have always been under the impression that the old yellowing micarta was a linen based material. I guess I base this on what everyone calls old yellow micarta when describing the type of ferrules used by Jerry Franklin and some others on their older cues.
Some time ago I purchased a piece from an individual that swears it is the old yellow micarta but it does not have a linen weave at all. I guess maybe a paper based material? It was supposedly cut round from flat stock and when the end of it is cut you can see a slight difference in the yellow color being darker around the outside of the piece so it does darken with exposure.

<~~~still learning with many questions..................
Click to expand...
I thought it was PAPER based.
 
I have also been told that it is paper based and contains NO asbestos. However, much like today's materials, I'm sure there were many different variants of these materials. A quick search of google for "asbestos micarta" will give you enough to read to keep you busy for a while.

Regardless of whether it contains asbestos or not, it is cheap insurance to wear a mask while cutting. Most resin based materials I've ever cut smell pretty bad cutting them anyways.
 
JoeyInCali said:
I thought it was PAPER based.
Click to expand...


Well ...that's what I'm trying to find out for sure.

The piece I have looks like probable paper based but the ones I've seen on older cues that are referred to as old yellow micarta have been a linen or weave based material.
 
BarenbruggeCues said:
Dale ...can you expand on this a little more?
I have always been under the impression that the old yellowing micarta was a linen based material. I guess I base this on what everyone calls old yellow micarta when describing the type of ferrules used by Jerry Franklin and some others on their older cues.
Some time ago I purchased a piece from an individual that swears it is the old yellow micarta but it does not have a linen weave at all. I guess maybe a paper based material? It was supposedly cut round from flat stock and when the end of it is cut you can see a slight difference in the yellow color being darker around the outside of the piece so it does darken with exposure.

<~~~still learning with many questions..................
Click to expand...
The old yellow micarta used for cue ferrules was not linen based. It really stank cutting it and in my opinion was not a very good playing ferrule. I thought Schon cues played much better after they quit using it. But others on here think it played great. I have heard some of them on here talk about the nice soft hit it had. Which makes me think they never really used the old stuff as it had a fairly hard hit, even harder than the linen melamine Schon replaced it with. But everyone has their opinions, and that is mine and I have used it many times in the 80's and early 90's for repair work. I also used the cream colored stuff that came out later and Atlas and a few others sold it and it did play a little less hard, but was prone to the whole top half of the ferrule coming off. I suspect that is the material some think was the old yellow micarta when they talk about the nice soft hit. Neither were linen based material.
 
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I have 3 old Schon micarta ferrules there.
The other one is Mason's micarta tube I cut and threaded.
I'm willing to sell the Schon ferrules for $1000 for the 3 pieces.
 

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JoeyInCali said:
I have 3 old Schon micarta ferrules there.
The other one is Mason's micarta tube I cut and threaded.
I'm willing to sell the Schon ferrules for $1000 for the 3 pieces.
Click to expand...


you're a good guy,joey. i don't care what everyone else says.
 
larrynj1 said:
you're a good guy,joey. i don't care what everyone else says.
Click to expand...
I'll throw in the gorilla glue.
Really, how do you place a value on them?
I heard $150 is the going rate.
 
recently I have seen it go for about 100.00 a ferrule just for the material.
I totally understand some likeing it, and others not so much. I however, absolutely love everything about it. feel, playability, even the odd looks and frequent questions of "what kind of ferrule is that"
not to mention... it just looks cool IMO
 
JoeyInCali said:
I have 3 old Schon micarta ferrules there.
The other one is Mason's micarta tube I cut and threaded.
I'm willing to sell the Schon ferrules for $1000 for the 3 pieces.
Click to expand...
If the picture showing on my screen is the actual color of the ferrules, those are the early 1990's Micarta cream colored material and not the old yellow ones.
 
cueman said:
The old yellow micarta used for cue ferrules was not linen based. It really stank cutting it and in my opinion was not a very good playing ferrule. I thought Schon cues played much better after they quit using it. But others on here think it played great. I have heard some of them on here talk about the nice soft hit it had. Which makes me think they never really used the old stuff as it had a fairly hard hit, even harder than the linen melamine Schon replaced it with. But everyone has their opinions, and that is mine and I have used it many times in the 80's and early 90's for repair work. I also used the cream colored stuff that came out later and Atlas and a few others sold it and it did play a little less hard, but was prone to the whole top half of the ferrule coming off. I suspect that is the material some think was the old yellow micarta when they talk about the nice soft hit. Neither were linen based material.
Click to expand...

Not exactly - I've used the "REAL" 'old stuff' for almost 30 years and I
can tell you without reservation that it doesn't hit nearly as hard
as melamine. Which leads me to beleive you must have been
hitting with Schons made after Runde left, and they had perhaps
tried to substitute for the material he used. Who knows?
Besides hard hit is not just due to the ferrule. I've hit with
plenty of early Moochies that I felt hit hard as a rock,
and their ferrules were so soft you could have
bit one in half with dull teeth.

Perhaps much of the confusion is due to the fact that Micarta
was a sort of 'brand name' that Westinghouse used for all of it's
industrial plastics, later even some
'decorative' plastics<the infamouis Atlas product>, most of which
were Phenolics - many were laminated - some were white.

So, it was possible, even in the Disco Era, (Westinghouse suspended
manufactuer of poolcue Micarta in 1977) to encounter "Micarta"
that was white and phenolic, and laminated, and reinforced with
paper, or linen, or glass.

Add in that the line of plastics has now been owned by 3 or 4
corporations since WH, and that people sometimes call products
from other makers Micarta - no wonder there is a mystery.

FWIW - I happen to love the 'hit' of Micarta - but I like other
materials also.

Dale
 
Last edited:
pdcue said:
Not exactly - I've used the "REAL" 'old stuff' for almost 30 years and I
can tell you without reservation that it doesn't hit nearly as hard
as melamine. Which leads me to beleive you must have been
hitting with Schons made after Runde left, and they had perhaps
tried to substitute for the material he used. Who knows?
Besides hard hit is not just due to the ferrule. I've hit with
plenty of early Moochies that I felt hit hard as a rock,
and their ferrules were so soft you could have
bit one in half with dull teeth.

Perhaps much of the confusion is due to the fact that Micarta
was a sort of 'brand name' that Westinghouse used for all of it's
industrial plastics, later even some
'decorative' plastics<the infamouis Atlas product>, most of which
were Phenolics - many were laminated - some were white.

So, it was possible, even in the Disco Era, (Westinghouse suspended
manufactuer of poolcue Micarta in 1977) to encounter "Micarta"
that was white and phenolic, and laminated, and reinforced with
paper, or linen, or glass.

Add in that the line of plastics has now been owned by 3 or 4
corporations since WH, and that people sometimes call products
from other makers Micarta - no wonder there is a mystery.

FWIW - I happen to love the 'hit' of Micarta - but I like other
materials also.

Dale
Click to expand...
I bought from Bob while he was there at Schon. Terry got to refusing to sell ferrules to me shortly after Bob left. We all have opinions on feel or hit and on this one we will disagree. By the way I have a brown joint Schon with Yellow Micarta ferrules and in my opinion it has a harder hit than the melamine Schon went to later. Now if we were to talk about the old Aegis linen material then I would agree that Aegis hit harder than the old Schon Micarta.
 
pdcue said:
Not exactly - I've used the "REAL" 'old stuff' for almost 30 years and I
can tell you without reservation that it doesn't hit nearly as hard
as melamine. Which leads me to beleive you must have been
hitting with Schons made after Runde left, and they had perhaps
tried to substitute for the material he used. Who knows?
Besides hard hit is not just due to the ferrule. I've hit with
plenty of early Moochies that I felt hit hard as a rock,
and their ferrules were so soft you could have
bit one in half with dull teeth.

Perhaps much of the confusion is due to the fact that Micarta
was a sort of 'brand name' that Westinghouse used for all of it's
industrial plastics, later even some
'decorative' plastics<the infamouis Atlas product>, most of which
were Phenolics - many were laminated - some were white.

So, it was possible, even in the Disco Era, (Westinghouse suspended
manufactuer of poolcue Micarta in 1977) to encounter "Micarta"
that was white and phenolic, and laminated, and reinforced with
paper, or linen, or glass.

Add in that the line of plastics has now been owned by 3 or 4
corporations since WH, and that people sometimes call products
from other makers Micarta - no wonder there is a mystery.

FWIW - I happen to love the 'hit' of Micarta - but I like other
materials also.

Dale
Click to expand...

My choice also, schwiiiiing ;)
 
there are many different grades or styles of melamine,but i would say that the old yellow micarta is softer than most all of them and a whole lot softer than the "glass for lack of a better description" melamine.the melamine Atlas was selling last year was pretty soft hitting but still not quite as soft as the old stuff.i do feel that the LBM is lower in deflection than the old yellow.ithe stuff i have now is similar in hit to the old stuff(softer) with similar to LBM playing characteristics.i love the hit of the old yellow stuff,but i feel there are better playing materials.
 
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