i was talking to thorston in the hall of the ventian, while smoking my cigar, and we wer'e talking about if straight pool helped his 8-ball game, and he replied, "not really,8-ball is a different game" he went on to say something that shocked me, he said~~~~"8-ball is much more difficult than straight pool" this i found fascinatating!! coming from the horses mouth,he said "there is so much more involved with 8-ball, so much more that can go wrong, rather than right,for instance the break alone, could be a disaster" i said hmm, interesting, i figured he would say straight pool helped him a lot with 8-ball,and that straight pool would be more challenging and more difficult, but no, it didn't help him with 8-ball, and 8-ball he said is more difficult to him. i found that insightful and interesting, hope you did as well,Bernie Friend IPT player 2006. p.s. that conversation took place, while he was in the last 32 or so players. i personally pegged him to win it all, once i saw he was in the last 32, he's too damn strong! i said to myself.
Intersting Thought From Hoemann
- Thread starter 8-ball bernie
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It is spelled Thorsten Hohmann.8-ball bernie said:
That whole post was hard to comprehend. 
That's curious... I thought about it myself, there are strategic aspects in 8 ball that are unlike any other game. 8 ball is a freak in a sense...
And, yes, a lot can go wrong running a rack of 8 or 9 ball that in 14.1 isn't an issue. But I respectfully think that the man has his 14.1 so hardwired he most likely forgot aspects of 14.1 (particularly patterns and nudging clusters) that make 8 ball look a lot easier.
That being said, here's yet another example of a pro who respects the game of 8 ball more than a lot of half-baked amateurs who think 9 ball is all there is. Very interesting post.
And, yes, a lot can go wrong running a rack of 8 or 9 ball that in 14.1 isn't an issue. But I respectfully think that the man has his 14.1 so hardwired he most likely forgot aspects of 14.1 (particularly patterns and nudging clusters) that make 8 ball look a lot easier.
That being said, here's yet another example of a pro who respects the game of 8 ball more than a lot of half-baked amateurs who think 9 ball is all there is. Very interesting post.
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I think it would be easier to find what is right with that post rather than what is wrong.Eric. said:
I haven't played much 14.1 in my life but I always wondered why people say it requires more precision than other games. You can shoot whatever ball you want and if you get out of line you can find another ball. The only time you have to crack down is towards the end to make sure you get a good break ball. Like I said I haven't played it much so I was just wondering why it is placed as one of the toughest games.
Could it be because the better player usually wins considering the high score you have to go to as opposed to 1 game of 8 or 9 ball. So basically you have to be on top of your own game and play extreamly well to beat the better player which is going to require precision?
Could it be because the better player usually wins considering the high score you have to go to as opposed to 1 game of 8 or 9 ball. So basically you have to be on top of your own game and play extreamly well to beat the better player which is going to require precision?
lewdo26 said:
That's what I was thinking, too. He is so good at 14.1 that chance rarely enters the equation. Once he gets going he can get a good enough break ball and be able to get in position to do it again the next rack.
In eight ball, the break is a great unknown. Dry. or make one and get frozen to a ball without a shot.
8-ball bernie said:
Thorsten's comment is an interesting one. I can see where straight pool might be considered an easier game than 8-ball as you can play any ball you want, rather than just stripes or solids.
Thorsten's comment can also be considered an extension of the previously discussed question of whether 8-ball is an easier game than 9-ball. The answer may depend on a person's temperament and aptitude. Different people may find certain pool games easier or harder than others due to the different skills required to play each game.
dmgwalsh said:
Hmm, maybe this is why Thorsten likes straight pool better than 8-ball. He's good enough that he can run rack after rack, using the break shot to control the table.
8-ball bernie said:
Whether or not 8-ball is more difficult is a personal choice. But, I've said many times that although playing 14.1 can help your 8-ball game (it certainly helped mine), the game of 8-ball has so much of its own patterns that are seen often that aren't seen much in other games that it deserves its own study. And its study deserves more respect. You have to play a lot of 8-ball to get out your best 8-ball game. Watching the players, you can tell who plays 8-ball, and who doesn't. Even if they run out often.
I'm glad someone like Hohmann has said it, since me saying it means nothing.
Fred
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Cornerman said:
Personally, I have to agree. The best analogy I can come up with is that 8 ball can play like 14.1 in the early game ie dealing with clusters, but the end game can play more like Rotation being that you have to negotiate interfering balls that may block certain routes or pockets.
Eric
I remember about a month ago, a discussion about 8-ball and so many people were saying how easy that thought 8 ball was in comparison with almost all other games in pool.
I said, I think 8-ball may be the hardest, and skillful game.
Alot of people think 8-ball is easy, because they don't know much about playing 'good' 8-ball, and they play other people who have no clue how to play... so those players get away with running 5 balls and missing - and get another chance at the table.
Play a good 8-ball player and try to run 4-6 balls and miss...
I said, I think 8-ball may be the hardest, and skillful game.
Alot of people think 8-ball is easy, because they don't know much about playing 'good' 8-ball, and they play other people who have no clue how to play... so those players get away with running 5 balls and missing - and get another chance at the table.
Play a good 8-ball player and try to run 4-6 balls and miss...
On one point, I disagree with Thorsten. I do not subscribe to the "more problems after the break shot" theory because in eight ball, a player left tough after the break is not required to attempt the runout, as there is generally a safety that will put one on relatively even footing with an opponent in any given rack. Similarly, in nine ball, a player left tough after the break may play safe or "push out" rather than playing from the position that results, getting a chance to beat their opponent to the next shot. In straight pool, however, if one smashes open the rack but fails to get a reasonable shot, there is rarely a safety that will deny opponent a shot at any of the fourteen balls on the table, so they often have no choice but to play a low percentage shot.
Where I agree with Thorsten, however, is that for top professionals, many tricky positions will result from the eight ball break, presenting a very unique and, somewhat unfamiliar, challenge. Still, I feel that eight ball has been made easier by the fact that a player making a ball on the break may select stripes or solids, rather than being restricted to choosing based on what has been pocketed. It was not always that way, and the problems encountered after the break were more severe before this clear relaxation of the rules.
Eight ball is probably the easiest game for an amateur to develop proficiency in, and I supect this is why it tends to be viewed as easy, but for professionals, the game stakcs up against most of the other games played over the green felt.
One thing I'm absolutely sure of, however, is that whatever the game being played over the green felt, I like Thorsten's chances! Thorsten is now the flagbearer for excellence and professionalism over the green felt, and as one of the game's most ardent fans, this is something I am very pleased about.
Where I agree with Thorsten, however, is that for top professionals, many tricky positions will result from the eight ball break, presenting a very unique and, somewhat unfamiliar, challenge. Still, I feel that eight ball has been made easier by the fact that a player making a ball on the break may select stripes or solids, rather than being restricted to choosing based on what has been pocketed. It was not always that way, and the problems encountered after the break were more severe before this clear relaxation of the rules.
Eight ball is probably the easiest game for an amateur to develop proficiency in, and I supect this is why it tends to be viewed as easy, but for professionals, the game stakcs up against most of the other games played over the green felt.
One thing I'm absolutely sure of, however, is that whatever the game being played over the green felt, I like Thorsten's chances! Thorsten is now the flagbearer for excellence and professionalism over the green felt, and as one of the game's most ardent fans, this is something I am very pleased about.
I can see why Thorsten would say 8-ball is harder than 14.1. I would dispute, however, that learning straight pool didn't help his 8-ball game. I suspect that the precise position play he learned playing straight pool has become so much a part of his game for so long that he's forgotten what honed it and where it originated.
As for 8-ball being more difficult, I absolutely agree. I've played 14.1 for 40 years. It's still my favorite game. I also think straight pool most consistently identifies the best player. Just look back over the years at the names who've won major straight pool events. You'll very seldom see a one-time flash in the pan name appear. That said, and despite my love of straight pool, I do consider 8-ball harder.
Eight ball, like no other game, demands a combination of planning, strategy and precision that exceeds even my beloved straight pool. The failure to execute any of the stated parameters against a top opponent almost certainly means a loss. As a result, I feel more pressure playing 8-ball than any other game. I think that is what Thosten was talking about comparing 8-ball to 14.1.
As for 8-ball being more difficult, I absolutely agree. I've played 14.1 for 40 years. It's still my favorite game. I also think straight pool most consistently identifies the best player. Just look back over the years at the names who've won major straight pool events. You'll very seldom see a one-time flash in the pan name appear. That said, and despite my love of straight pool, I do consider 8-ball harder.
Eight ball, like no other game, demands a combination of planning, strategy and precision that exceeds even my beloved straight pool. The failure to execute any of the stated parameters against a top opponent almost certainly means a loss. As a result, I feel more pressure playing 8-ball than any other game. I think that is what Thosten was talking about comparing 8-ball to 14.1.
thorstenhohmann
New member
Always said that straight pool has helped my overall game a lot....thats what happens when you quote somebody who's name you can't write right... hehehe
Well that about sums it up.thorstenhohmann said:
Well said Thorsten!
sjm said:
I don't know if this holds true to 8-ball since there is no pushout, but in 9-ball, the player who has to push-out is always considered the heavy underdog to win the rack (at the pro level).
thorstenhohmann said:
Thanks for my first major laugh of the day!