IPT...a thought to ponder

Shorty

Shorty

A banger at best...
Silver Member
I am not trying to discredit Kevin T or the IPT in any way, shape or form...but something is bugging me and I have to get my cards out on the table so to speak.

I honestly get the feeling that this whole IPT thing is just another pyramid scheme to sucker people out of there money. I know, I know...no one has put any money in yet...but still. You ever get that rub from this whole ordeal? I mean the book...now the IPT...doesn't it seem like KT is just tapping yet another audience who has not figured out his pyramid schemes?

If I am wrong Kevin, then I offer my sincerest of apologies...but I was taught when something doesn't smell quite right, to stay away from it.

Just something I wanted to get off my chest, sorry if I offended anybody, but does anybody else feel this way, or am I a lone wolf?

Shorty
 
Shorty said:
I am not trying to discredit Kevin T or the IPT in any way, shape or form...but something is bugging me and I have to get my cards out on the table so to speak.

I honestly get the feeling that this whole IPT thing is just another pyramid scheme to sucker people out of there money. I know, I know...no one has put any money in yet...but still. You ever get that rub from this whole ordeal? I mean the book...now the IPT...doesn't it seem like KT is just tapping yet another audience who has not figured out his pyramid schemes?

If I am wrong Kevin, then I offer my sincerest of apologies...but I was taught when something doesn't smell quite right, to stay away from it.

Just something I wanted to get off my chest, sorry if I offended anybody, but does anybody else feel this way, or am I a lone wolf?

Shorty
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You shouldn't push farts in public. It is rude.
 
Shorty:

Well, the guy is not stupid... he sees an angle for the IPT to give him exposure and income, that is for sure. If it benefits the sport and the players... I am all for it!

Obviously, he was inspired by the poker tour and the money they are generating. It is similar to the WWF... and how they tried to creat the XFL... it was entertainment designed to make money.

If KT tries it for a while and it doesn't produce the cash... then it will be cut and the big paydays will be over and we will all be back to gutter hustling and weekly tournaments!

At this point, I can see it going either way... but I do know that without TV exposure (and I mean REAL, BIG TV exposure), it won't fly. Look how often poker is on TV... on various channels.... Pool doesn't even come close to that level of exposure yet.

So, it does smell a little funny since he is trying to use the sport to make a buck, but we are trying to use him too... so it's a push....
 
Who ever said that Kevin T. is a philanthropist? He's not donating his hard-earned cash to hungry pool professionals. It would be naive to think this way.

First of all, he's a business man. He wouldn't do ANYTHING unless he thinks it will make him a buck in the long run. KT is not stupid...he's not a multi-millionaire because he gives money to the needy. He created the IPT to make money FIRST. Advancing the sport of pool is just a by-product of this business.

The question is...can anyone blame him for this? Why should we harp on him because of his primary motive for making money? We should actually be happy that Kevin sees this tour as a long term cash-generating machine, cuz that will ensure the financial future of the tour and our sport. Why would we be bothered if KT profits out of this tour? As long as pool gets the publicity it desperately needs, as long as the prize money stays the way it is, who cares if he's making millions from this tour?

Bottom line is...the IPT is a BUSINESS...just like every other professional sport. If you can't make money off a business, then there's no point starting one. I think the pool community should just be grateful that someone has the courage to invest his own money into this particular business.
 
I've quietly sat by and watched all of the IPT pro/con threads without commenting yet, but it's time to throw my thoughts in. I personally have no idea or opinion as to wether or not the IPT will last or fall on it's face. However, if the cards aren't played right, the whole venture, based on past failed tours, is pretty high risk simply because the sport needs to appeal more to non-playing viewers in order to make a good run, and it's always been my opinion that to non-players, anything other than trick shot shows can be quite boring.
But, to those that keep bashing the IPT tour and it's founder for simply trying to make a quick buck, and suggesting that he'll eventually pull out and run before he takes a big loss, I have to say SO WHAT!! Even if the guy is out just to make cash, (nothing wrong with that) in order to make money, he's going to have to have SOME success with the tour, which can only be good for the players involved even if it doesn't last long. Let's say the tour falls on it's @ss in three years time. Unfortunate, but at least for those three years, some players will made more money in that three year time than they might have in their entire careers had it not been for the IPT. My advice to players with the ability and luck to get onto the tour would be to jump onto that wave and ride it for what it is as long as you can because even if it turns out to be a short ride, it will still have been worth it to get your piece of the pie while it lasted. From the players point of view, there can't be anything to lose. With the exception to the membership card fee, and other entry fees, it's my understanding that none of the players are investing large amounts of money to keep the tour going, so if it does fall apart, I really don't see any big losers from the players point of view. Three years from now, IF the tour no longer exists, somebody should ask Reyes whether or not he thought the IPT was a bad idea that should never have happened in the first place.
dave
 
jsp said:
Who ever said that Kevin T. is a philanthropist? He's not donating his hard-earned cash to hungry pool professionals. It would be naive to think this way.

First of all, he's a business man. He wouldn't do ANYTHING unless he thinks it will make him a buck in the long run. KT is not stupid...he's not a multi-millionaire because he gives money to the needy. He created the IPT to make money FIRST. Advancing the sport of pool is just a by-product of this business.

The question is...can anyone blame him for this? Why should we harp on him because of his primary motive for making money? We should actually be happy that Kevin sees this tour as a long term cash-generating machine, cuz that will ensure the financial future of the tour and our sport. Why would we be bothered if KT profits out of this tour? As long as pool gets the publicity it desperately needs, as long as the prize money stays the way it is, who cares if he's making millions from this tour?

Bottom line is...the IPT is a BUSINESS...just like every other professional sport. If you can't make money off a business, then there's no point starting one. I think the pool community should just be grateful that someone has the courage to invest his own money into this particular business.
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I think Shorty isn't saying the guy is wrong want to make money. He is expressing a concern that, given the guys past, somehow there is a con or a pyramid scheme at the center of his effort.
I can image no way that he is running a con here, if he is it is a very well hidden con. However, I can certainly understand how KT's past would make a person be concerned about that.
I don't like the guy, but my feeling is he is running a legit business venture here.
 
Shorty said:
I am not trying to discredit Kevin T or the IPT in any way, shape or form...but something is bugging me and I have to get my cards out on the table so to speak.

I honestly get the feeling that this whole IPT thing is just another pyramid scheme to sucker people out of there money. I know, I know...no one has put any money in yet...but still. You ever get that rub from this whole ordeal? I mean the book...now the IPT...doesn't it seem like KT is just tapping yet another audience who has not figured out his pyramid schemes?

If I am wrong Kevin, then I offer my sincerest of apologies...but I was taught when something doesn't smell quite right, to stay away from it.

Just something I wanted to get off my chest, sorry if I offended anybody, but does anybody else feel this way, or am I a lone wolf?

Shorty
Click to expand...

What do you mean by a "pyramid scheme?" Are you talking about a Ponzi fraud where the early entries are paid by the later entries? I don't see that here at all.

Or are you talking about his Multi-Level Marketing business(es)?---which his are/were not pyramid schemes, btw. He is offering a referral of $100 for any IPTer who brings in another player, I believe. Is that what you're talking about?

Jeff Livingston
 
He doesn't know what he is talking about, only knows how he feels...

chefjeff said:
What do you mean by a "pyramid scheme?" Are you talking about a Ponzi fraud where the early entries are paid by the later entries? I don't see that here at all.

Or are you talking about his Multi-Level Marketing business(es)?---which his are/were not pyramid schemes, btw. He is offering a referral of $100 for any IPTer who brings in another player, I believe. Is that what you're talking about?

Jeff Livingston
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Lots of good comments guys. I don't see what there is to fear from the IPT, except for players who overestimate their abilities and blow a few thousand for their moment of glory in the qualifiers. Geez, these guys blow a similar amount when they take on a challenge match or travel to any tourney.

But a critical point is that KT couldn't possibly be planning to get his invested money back out of current players through qualifiers etc. They'll be an insignificant proportion of his revenue plan.

He's got to sell products and hopefully sell broadcasting rights. He's got to attract a huge new crowd of pool enthusiasts numbering millions.

If he succeeds, the side effects will likely be a boon for most billiard related businesses. And KT will likely be well situated with a bunch of products to capitalize on this increase interest. And I doubt the others in the industry will be complaining about the trickle down effects to their own businesses.

Just my panglossian 2c :D
 
Shorty said:
I honestly get the feeling that this whole IPT thing is just another pyramid scheme to sucker people out of there money.
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Pyramid scheme ? No, I never got that impression, not even close. He's simply selling a product. The transaction is you send him money, he sends you a book ... if this is a pyramid scheme then Amazon and a lot of other businesses are in trouble. He does always remind me of the old line "how do you know when a salesman is lying ? His mouth is moving !", but he's just a very smooth a talker and also reminds me of the saying "he can sell refrigerators to Eskimos". I'm not big into conspiracys so his message annoys me, but he's definately not the only one, nor the worst imo. I also find that sales pitches as forceful and intense as his are offensive, but never got a hint of an underlying pyramid scheme.

Dave
 
DaveK said:
Pyramid scheme ? No, I never got that impression, not even close. He's simply selling a product. The transaction is you send him money, he sends you a book ... if this is a pyramid scheme then Amazon and a lot of other businesses are in trouble. He does always remind me of the old line "how do you know when a salesman is lying ? His mouth is moving !", but he's just a very smooth a talker and also reminds me of the saying "he can sell refrigerators to Eskimos". I'm not big into conspiracys so his message annoys me, but he's definately not the only one, nor the worst imo. I also find that sales pitches as forceful and intense as his are offensive, but never got a hint of an underlying pyramid scheme.

Dave
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Dave, you hit the nail on the head directly as to what I was trying to say...he just seems like a smooth salesman is all. I once was told I could sell ice to the eskimos, so I must have some of that in me as well.

Again, I am not saying anything negative really...just...the IPT is throwing up some sort of red flag in my head for some reason. I am not jealous, I am not envious, I am just not sure what to think about all of it.

A pyramid scheme is where you get people to send in money for a product thats "vapor" or "simple" and then they sell it to others or get others to sell it for them and then take a cut each of the way up the pyramid until the guy at the top gets the biggest piece of the action.

I just really wanted to see how others are thinking, and thanks for all the inputs, you guys are always so sharp!

Shorty
 
This is in response to the original post. I dont think KT had the intention of pitching his book to IPT viewers. He just happens to be a guy who made some money off a seperate industry and wants to take some of that money and invest it in an industry close to his heart but unrelated to the other. It's called unrelated diversification. Hey, i remember something from college. People and companies do it to protect against the systematic risk associated with their primary area of business.

If kevin really wanted to move more of his dietary books, he would have invested his money in producing shows like "The Biggest Loser" or "Celebrity Fit Club". Pool players are far from his target audience. It's completely unrelated. There's no way he's sold more than 100 books to the pool players who heard about him because of the IPT.
 
Shorty said:
(snip)
A pyramid scheme is where you get people to send in money for a product thats "vapor" or "simple" and then they sell it to others or get others to sell it for them and then take a cut each of the way up the pyramid until the guy at the top gets the biggest piece of the action.

(snip)
Shorty
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That is not a pyramid scheme. You must be thinking of MLM, and you've got the details of that wrong, btw. It never results in being structured as a pyramid---never in my 25 years in that business have I ever seen it so. It is explained that way as a concept sometimes, but never do the results manifest a pyramid shape. No person's growth is dependant on the circumstances of another distributor.

If you think about it, only "regular" businesses are actually pyramid-shaped, with a head man, his lieutenants, their managers, their supervisors, their team leaders, and their workers at the bottom, each hoping to make it higher and higher, sadistically hoping for death, retirement, or the canning of those above them. Sad, but true.

Jeff Livingston
 
KT's motivation isn't that hard to figure (IMO)

KT thinks he has found an under-developed & under-funded sport to capitalize on. I would think he has exclusive promotional rights for the IPT. (IMO) He is betting (a lot) that this will be to NaturalCures.com like the sport of Boxing was to Gillette back in the 60's.
To him - Pool is a business venture AND businesses are designed to make money. Plain & Simple!

TY & GL
 
KT sounds like a pretty smart fellow to me. If I had the money to try to start some big venture, I'd be looking for something that was extremely popular that the business end of hadn't been taken advantage of yet. Pool sounds like a good choice to me. When I say "taken advantage of", I don't mean it in a negative manner. He was looking for a good investment that has a good chance of a big payoff. Nothing wrong with that! It's the basis of a Great economy. I can't think of anything else that is so popular that has the possibility of so much growing room. I hope he makes a bundle cause if he does, the players will also.
 
Are you kidding?

whitewolf said:
He should be paying Mike Immonen and others big bucks to stand in Wal-Mart and push the sales of these DVDs.
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There aren’t one in 5 million customers at Wal-Mart who would know who Mike Immonen is OR even what sport he plays.

You also say - I 'feel' that KT is an idiot who happened to have fallen into some good things.
Yeah, like most very successful business people - He finds that the harder he works - The luckier he gets.

TY & GL
 
whitewolf said:
You crack me up :D

BTW, I 'feel' that KT is an idiot who happened to have fallen into some good things.

I 'feel' that KT is an idiot because he doesn not know how to market what he is doing. He should be selling all of the DVDs in one package deal for $50, not a $1,000! He should be paying Mike Immonen and others big bucks to stand in Wal-Mart and push the sales of these DVDs. Inundate the public with this good stuff. Forget about the short term profit. There is none. I don't see ESPN lining up to do the next big show LIVE!!!!! KT's only chance to succeed here is to reach the people, and even giving away these DVDs may even be better.

PS I guess I am still pissed about hearing about the $1,000 price tag. :p and this is just the way I 'feel' :D
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Even if Mike Immonen stood in Wal-Mart pushing for the sales of these DVD's, would anyone know who he is??? Would any pool players know who Mike Immonen is. LOL :D
 
Shorty said:
A pyramid scheme is where you get people to send in money for a product thats "vapor" or "simple" and then they sell it to others or get others to sell it for them and then take a cut each of the way up the pyramid until the guy at the top gets the biggest piece of the action.

Shorty
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I personally do not see a "pyramid scheme" Shorty, but KT is one sharp businessman.

I say wait, watch, and see what happens with the IPT.

As Actions & Results Speak Louder than Words, or Promises.
 
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