IPT banning tip/ferrule combo?

[JoeyInCali]

Sure, just move to the next thread when you want to move on. All these discussions go where they go and end when everyone has their fill. We know we are not likely going to change Kevin's or Deno's mind about this but it does no harm to state our opinons anyway. Maybe the next person who starrts a tour will look at these discussions and agree with the pro-jump cue rationale.

Besides that, everything that the IPT or anyone else who is in the public spotlight does is open for comment.

And, thank you Deno for being an active participant in this and other IPT discussions. We appreciate the feedback, even if we don't agree. )

John

Looks like the big guns are slowly going after the jumpers John.
USPPA, then IPT.
Time to make a 58" basswood cue with resin impregnated "leather" tips.

 

[catscradle]

Sure, just move to the next thread when you want to move on. All these discussions go where they go and end when everyone has their fill. We know we are not likely going to change Kevin's or Deno's mind about this but it does no harm to state our opinons anyway. Maybe the next person who starrts a tour will look at these discussions and agree with the pro-jump cue rationale.

Besides that, everything that the IPT or anyone else who is in the public spotlight does is open for comment.

And, thank you Deno for being an active participant in this and other IPT discussions. We appreciate the feedback, even if we don't agree. )

John

Tap-tap-tap.
John I couldn't agree more. That's the beauty of a free internet, the thread goes where it goes. You have one opinion and Deno another, I have one opinion of KT and others another. It can all be stated freely until nobody is interested in reading or typing about it anymore, then it dies. Hell, 3/4s of the threads are repeat stuff, but that's no harm, we read what we want to read.
BTW, I'll try not to make it a habit to agree with you, it takes all the fun out of it.

 

[onepocketchump]

Looks like the big guns are slowly going after the jumpers John.
USPPA, then IPT.
Time to make a 58" basswood cue with resin impregnated "leather" tips.

The USPPA is hardly a "big gun". They are a regional league with a dictatorial person at the helm. The IPT is a professional league with no real bearing on the rest of the planet's pool playing habits.

John

 

[rackmsuckr]

I dont see where its a big deal, Ive never owned a jump cue, and have never used a plastic tip, and jump shots arent that hard to do.. I mean, there are rails, and kick shots are alot easier to master.. IMO.. There are times where a jump shot is needed, Maybe its time I showed the fellow AZ'ers an Idea I worked on for several years.. I came up with a couple trick shots, Jumping a whole ball, a nice lil curve and I hit the rail first.. I call it the JUMP KICK... might prove handy considering the IPT's rules...


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2wld4u

Yes, that's the rail hop I mentioned in another thread that a friend of mine used to do all the time. He showed it to me about 20 years ago.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Miscues should automatically be a foul because it has been proven that they are double hits.

John

I read the Jacksonville experiment report recently and I believe they found that many or most were multiple hits, but not all.

Dr. Dave also has high speed video of a non-double hitting miscue on his site.

Given that, at this point it may be hard to determine for sure if a miscue is a double hit, and the fact that a serious miscue is usually damaging to the shooter, I would not support an instant foul on miscues rule.

There are many situations of partial miscues that would cause controversy too.

 

[Donovan]

miscues as double hits....what?

The only way a miscue could be a double hit is if the side of your cue hit the ball after it went by the ball. A miscue happens because of the cue glancing away from the ball and not actually getting the friction it needed to stick to the ball. How can that hit be a double hit. This is the first I have ever heard anyone saying a miscue is a double hit. For me that makes no sense.

A miscue is a legal shot in BCA rules according to, Randy Gotlicker, the guy who wrote the rule on double hits. That's enough for me to live with. If you need this explained to you in great detail, Bert Kinister discussed the rule with Randy and tells about their converstion in his $100 Video #60 that just came out.

 

[Donovan]

I have not seen this experiment that Collin refers to, but the kind of miscue I was thinking about would probably fit under the non-double hit kind. I do realize that there are some miscues that sound and are double hits. So I suppose it really comes down to a double hit and not a miscue. Just my opinions.

 

[Colin Colenso]

The only way a miscue could be a double hit is if the side of your cue hit the ball after it went by the ball. A miscue happens because of the cue glancing away from the ball and not actually getting the friction it needed to stick to the ball. How can that hit be a double hit. This is the first I have ever heard anyone saying a miscue is a double hit. For me that makes no sense.

A miscue is a legal shot in BCA rules according to, Randy Gotlicker, the guy who wrote the rule on double hits. That's enough for me to live with. If you need this explained to you in great detail, Bert Kinister discussed the rule with Randy and tells about their converstion in his $100 Video #60 that just came out.

Seeing is believing....
The first miscue video is a double hit.
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/high_speed_videos/new/HSVA-14.htm
Click next after you watch this to see a single hit miscue shot.

 

[Tbeaux]

I read the Jacksonville experiment report recently and I believe they found that many or most were multiple hits, but not all.

Dr. Dave also has high speed video of a non-double hitting miscue on his site.

Given that, at this point it may be hard to determine for sure if a miscue is a double hit, and the fact that a serious miscue is usually damaging to the shooter, I would not support an instant foul on miscues rule.

There are many situations of partial miscues that would cause controversy too.

OK,OK.....I'm going to make one more statement on this thread since the subject changed.

I agree with Colin on this.....Basically, if a miscue needs to be ANALYZED with high speed video to find out if it's a double hit, it's just not worth calling a foul, clearly anything happening that fast is not diliberate and most likely worked against the shooter.

Terry

 

[Donovan]

Colin,

Very cool videos. Those miscues seem to be hitting the ball where a miscue should not have happened. I suppose no chalk or not stroking through the ball would cause those. Hmmm, I was thinking of a hit further out on the cue ball. That is interesting.

 

[Donovan]

OK,OK.....I'm going to make one more statement on this thread since the subject changed.

I agree with Colin on this.....Basically, if a miscue needs to be ANALYZED with high speed video to find out if it's a double hit, it's just not worth calling a foul, clearly anything happening that fast is not diliberate and most likely worked against the shooter.

Terry

Really? You never use a msicue as a legitamate shot. Hmmm, there are times when using a deliberate micue helps you gain position. I don't like spoiling someone else's hard work, so check out that Kinster $100 Video. He will show you some amazing things that you have never dreamed of that you can do with position and yes they are legal and eye opening.

 

[Str8PoolMan]

OK,OK.....I'm going to make one more statement on this thread since the subject changed.

I agree with Colin on this.....Basically, if a miscue needs to be ANALYZED with high speed video to find out if it's a double hit, it's just not worth calling a foul, clearly anything happening that fast is not diliberate and most likely worked against the shooter.

Terry

Amen. Miscueing (sp?) is embarrassing enough without have a foul being called as well. Besides, I can't think of an instance where I miscued that it wasn't a foul anyway, since the cueball didn't drive a ball to a rail.

 

[vader93490]

The only way a miscue could be a double hit is if the side of your cue hit the ball after it went by the ball. A miscue happens because of the cue glancing away from the ball and not actually getting the friction it needed to stick to the ball. How can that hit be a double hit. This is the first I have ever heard anyone saying a miscue is a double hit. For me that makes no sense.

I seem to vaguely recall hearing somewhere that the Japanese had a severe penalty regarding a miscue. If one occurred during a match, the other player was awarded ball in hand. To hear them explain a miscue, they stated that they felt that a miscue was the result of the player putting an illegal stroke on the ball.

 

[Donovan]

I seem to vaguely recall hearing somewhere that the Japanese had a severe penalty regarding a miscue. If one occurred during a match, the other player was awarded ball in hand. To hear them explain a miscue, they stated that they felt that a miscue was the result of the player putting an illegal stroke on the ball.

Wow, to me that is just odd. I know when you shoot a miscue everyone says man you got lucky there when things turn out right. I find that funny.

I have never heard so much stuff on miscue shots before. Maybe this is an eye opener for me to learn from. I should always make it look like an accident I guess.