IPT Qualifiers - is it just me?

[TheOne]

When the IPT tour started 150 players where selected based on how good you are, how early you applied, and probably who you knew.

It wasn't rocket science to pick the 150 players based on a mixture of various worldwide ranking lists, and maybe reserve a small % of the spots for IPT/KT wild cards. This has been discussed before and would have given the tour much greater creditability. This wouldn't have helped me much but it would have made sure the high ranking professionals who have dedicated their lives to acheive their success got the spots IMO they deserved. I don't recall much of a reason why this wasn't done?

The other possibility was to hold global qualifiers to select the 150 lucky ones. Why wasn't this done?

But now several months later before the tour has even started the IPT is going to launch:

a series of $2000 double elimination tour card qualifiers in the US only, and

25 double elimination qualifiers around the globe to get the players for the 50 open spots in the two biggest tournaments on the calendar.

All this before a tournament proper has even begun!

Why of why (if they couldn't simply pick the 150 best players in the world based on current rankings) didn't the IPT organise one big qualifier and take the top 150 players from it? If players dropped out/didn't turn up they could then simply go down the list!

 

[Gabber]

When the IPT tour started 150 players where selected based on how good you are, how early you applied, and probably who you knew.

It wasn't rocket science to pick the 150 players based on a mixture of various worldwide ranking lists, and maybe reserve a small % of the spots for IPT/KT wild cards. This has been discussed before and would have given the tour much greater creditability. This wouldn't have helped me much but it would have made sure the high ranking professionals who have dedicated their lives to acheive their success got the spots IMO they deserved. I don't recall much of a reason why this wasn't done?

The other possibility was to hold global qualifiers to select the 150 lucky ones. Why wasn't this done?

But now several months later before the tour has even started the IPT is going to launch:

a series of $2000 double elimination tour card qualifiers in the US only, and

25 double elimination qualifiers around the globe to get the players for the 50 open spots in the two biggest tournaments on the calendar.

All this before a tournament proper has even begun!

Why of why (if they couldn't simply pick the 150 best players in the world based on current rankings) didn't the IPT organise one big qualifier and take the top 150 players from it? If players dropped out/didn't turn up they could then simply go down the list!

Jam already addressed this point.

When is the next tournament? Why the delay? The IPT had to delay the schedule for ’06 because of the negotiations with television, things like worldwide rights, continents like Europe and Asia who want to go live, and as well deal with the other worldwide sporting events and issues. The IPT has to be careful not to have certain dates because of maybe a World Cup or another type of sporting event. All dates must be considered, not just for U.S., but around the world to not coincide with the dates of the venues.

Because of the success of TV and other interests, there are venues now, hotel chains, casino chains, and cities -- yes, CITIES -- coming to them saying, "Please bring the tour to our city," offering huge amounts of incentives and monies. Within the next few weeks, the tournament date will be nailed down, based on TV availability, space availability at venues that really want the IPT.

You should listen to the tapes or better still, read Jam's summary. She condenses 60+ mins of superlatives and BS into something that you can read in 30 secs..

BTW, we are all LOSERS according to KT........ Yep, internet forum users are all LOSERS. ..........No sorry, thats wrong, you are only a LOSER if you have a criticism about the IPT! I guess you are now included!
KT niether answers Q's or takes any notice of what is said on the internet forums like this one................right???????????
Wasnt there a post , "KT answers all your Qs"????
If its not important, why even mention it.
The only way anyone knows that the Qals are taking place is through the web! Without the pool community on the web- nobody would know that the IPT even exists.


Gabber..

 

[TheOne]

Jam already addressed this point.



You should listen to the tapes or better still, read Jam's summary. She condenses 60+ mins of superlatives and BS into something that you can read in 30 secs..

BTW, we are all LOSERS according to KT........ Yep, internet forum users are all LOSERS. ..........No sorry, thats wrong, you are only a LOSER if you have a criticism about the IPT! I guess you are now included!
KT niether answers Q's or takes any notice of what is said on the internet forums like this one................right???????????
Wasnt there a post , "KT answers all your Qs"????
If its not important, why even mention it.
The only way anyone knows that the Qals are taking place is through the web! Without the pool community on the web- nobody would know that the IPT even exists.


Gabber..

I don't see how JAMs comments relate to my point about qualification and how the players where chosen? Although everything she says makes perfect sense of course.

Well there are a number of posters and players (both selected and not selected) that are now too scared to say what they want to say about the IPT as they think it will in some way effect their chances of playing the IPT in the future. I very much want to play in the IPT but I wouldn't want to if questions in a forum somehow affected my chances!

I was initially cautious about the IPT when you had to send in $1000 in advance months before any planned event and I shared my feelings on this forum. I didnt get selected which was probably due to a) I applied too late and b) I jsut didn't have a good enough pool cv. However despite numerous requests Deno (the IPT) won't reply to any forum questions? I hope its a case they are very busy as I'm sure it is but I'm very much not alone in sharing these concerns.

I really hope as the IPT become more popular (and hence more powerful) they do try to listen to ALL players and not just those lucky enough to be selected, afterall in a couple of years the majority of the players that make up the IPT are the players that where originally rejected. I left pool a long time ago because of politics and its a shame to see such a potentially wonderful new tour repeat some of those mistakes

We also seem to have two distinct camps of players now too, the "have's" and the "have nots"! The "haves" that have been fortunate enough to be selected for the tour are labelled "poodles" and I think it's fair to say are frothing at the mouth at the financial prospects. Then we have the "have nots" the players that were not selected that are labelled "forum whingers" and "losers" (sadly by some of the players that where actually selected!)

Personally I find it all a bit depressing and I think both points of view are a bit exagerated.

However I do get a sense that certain selected players are more than happy to trample over their less fortunate colleagues in order to look after themselves. That really is a shame...

 

[Colin Colenso]

Craig,
I think your point about the qualification system is a fair one.

Though I wonder how many would have attended at that stage, and how keen various clubs would be to participate if they allowed qualifying spots overseas?

Perhaps with hindsight they'd do it differently. A bit hard to go back on things now.

I certainly hope the gravy train rolls on so that all the deserving players get their chance.

 

[Jimmy M.]

BTW, we are all LOSERS according to KT........ Yep, internet forum users are all LOSERS. ..........No sorry, thats wrong, you are only a LOSER if you have a criticism about the IPT!

KT called the forum users "losers"?

 

[Scottster]

Not offering a spot to players that have averaged in the top 20 in the BD power rankings over the past 10 years is ludicrous, and telling them they have to pay 2 grand to qualify is a slap in their face when they have already proved themselves worthy of a spot, unlike some of the names of people who received a spot.

 

[Jimmy M.]

Not offering a spot to players that have averaged in the top 20 in the BD power rankings over the past 10 years is ludicrous, and telling them they have to pay 2 grand to qualify is a slap in their face when they have already proved themselves worthy of a spot, unlike some of the names of people who received a spot.

You're absolutely correct. I've thought the same thing but, for fear of being labeled just another I.P.T. basher, I haven't said it. Now that you have, I'll agree.

 

[jjinfla]

KT called the forum users "losers"?

Basically he did in his tape. But it really is a hard point to argue. Surely no one is going to plan his life on what he reads on message boards. If you do, then look in the mirror and you will see a real loser.

But of course it is a tool that can be used to some advantage. And KT and the IPT have used it to their advantage that is for sure. In fact they pretty much took over AZB.

But if you really want answers to questions then by all means go to the IPT website and send them an e-mail. And of course sign it with your real name, address and telephone number. Or call them and talk to them in person. Then you can post here and tell us what you learned that has not already been made available to the general public.

Anyway, as far as his selection of players just think of it as one big wedding party. At a wedding party you always hear someone asking "why was she invited?" Or he? The simple answer is that he invited the people he wanted to be at the party. What's the big deal? Or do you still believe that life is fair? Or that money doesn't talk?

I am sure that some people are not there simply because that KT, or his advisors, didn't want them there. Why is that so hard to understand?

As far as players crying that they were not properly notified that is pure bunk. Every pool player worth his salt knows all the good players within 1,000 miles of him or where any action is. If they were not tuned in to the grapevine shame on them.

Jake

 

[Jimmy M.]

Basically he did in his tape. But it really is a hard point to argue. Surely no one is going to plan his life on what he reads on message boards. If you do, then look in the mirror and you will see a real loser.

But of course it is a tool that can be used to some advantage. And KT and the IPT have used it to their advantage that is for sure. In fact they pretty much took over AZB.

But if you really want answers to questions then by all means go to the IPT website and send them an e-mail. And of course sign it with your real name, address and telephone number. Or call them and talk to them in person. Then you can post here and tell us what you learned that has not already been made available to the general public.

Anyway, as far as his selection of players just think of it as one big wedding party. At a wedding party you always hear someone asking "why was she invited?" Or he? The simple answer is that he invited the people he wanted to be at the party. What's the big deal? Or do you still believe that life is fair? Or that money doesn't talk?

I am sure that some people are not there simply because that KT, or his advisors, didn't want them there. Why is that so hard to understand?

As far as players crying that they were not properly notified that is pure bunk. Every pool player worth his salt knows all the good players within 1,000 miles of him or where any action is. If they were not tuned in to the grapevine shame on them.

Jake

I'm unsure why you find it so hard to sympathize with players like, dare I say his name again, Danny Harriman ... or Tony C, or Tang Hoa, or Dave Hemmah, or (do I really need to go on?). I get the impression that you want to argue each time someone suggests that the I.P.T. might be anything less than perfect. You're usually one of the first ones to respond to those posts - usually in some condescending manner that would almost certainly incite a little Internet flame war. You seem like I bright guy. I find it hard to believe that you don't know what you're doing there. Hey, if that's what you want to do, have fun. I'm sure you'll have plenty more opportunities since I don't expect these types of posts to just go away in the near future.

If I were in their shoes, yes, I would feel somewhat insulted for having to pay $2000 to *try* to get to where some other, arguably less deserving, players already are. Do I feel that way? Not really. If the true top 150 got in, I wouldn't have been selected anyway so I'd still have to try to qualify if I wanted in. However, I'm able to see how that could be insulting, to some degree, and I can sympathize with these guys. I hope they all get in and then dominate the tour.

 

[rackmsuckr]

KT called the forum users "losers"?

I am sure he was referring to a few key naysayers, not all of us.

And it was more directed at making business decisions, if you listen to the whole audio.

 

[vader93490]

Well there are a number of posters and players (both selected and not selected) that are now too scared to say what they want to say about the IPT as they think it will in some way effect their chances of playing the IPT in the future. I very much want to play in the IPT but I wouldn't want to if questions in a forum somehow affected my chances!

Speaking for myself, I have not ever been "scared" (to quote you) or intimidated by any person to voice my dislike for the IPT organization. I've made my reasons quite known both publically & privately in this forum why I continue to have an utter disgust & nothing but contempt for Kevin Trudeau & his organization.

I made the statement in another thread (it may have been the one that was deleted recently) that I will not participate in one of these IPT events. It wouldn't matter if the payout was two hundred million dollars, I still would not choose to compete or even apply to be in the IPT organization to try to compete in one of their events. That statement still holds true. Many good friends in real life that I've known personally for years have said that I'm "losing out" (to quote them) by my continued refusals to consider applying to the IPT or possibly playing in it at some future date. Some of them do, however, understand my reasoning for refusing to have anything to do with the IPT organization & have started to slowly agree with my ongoing perceptions about the organization, particularly the people in charge of it.

I also recall stating in the recently deleted thread that if someone wants to go & collect their thirty pieces of silver from the IPT, have at it & be my guest. Some folks will have no qualms whatsoever about collecting money from this man Kevin Trudeau, that's easy to see. However, ask yourself this while you're collecting your money if you do eventually make it into the IPT organization: If Kevin Trudeau had no qualms about bilking high dollar companies & trusting innocent customers with his "Natural Cures" line, why should he have any qualms about bilking the participating IPT players & companies out of money as well in the future?

 

[jjinfla]

I'm unsure why you find it so hard to sympathize with players like, dare I say his name again, Danny Harriman ...

Danny Harriman did not apply. I should sympathize with him? Most likely Corey Deuel tried to get him to apply since they were pretty good friends. Danny was most likely still pissed over not getting his money from previous events and decided not to bother with the IPT. That was his decision.

It is obvious to me that a lot of players now in the IPT are going to be cannon fodder for the "Real" pros. And in all probability they will not win any matches and will be gone at the end of 2006. I include most of the HOF in that group. Why were they selected in the first place? Who knows? It is KT's game so he would be the one to ask.

The football draft will be coming up and you will see some teams pick a player and people will wonder why in the hell did they pick that guy? Besides the plain answer is that he will fit into their plans - they picked him becasue it is their franchise and they can do as they please. Same with KT. It is his tour and he can do as he wants.

Sorta reminds me of Mike & Mr. Wilson here on AZB.

Jake

 

[sjm]

Well, I know I risk standing out like a sore thumb here, but I'll defend the IPT.

The IPT, based on its perceived timetable, needed to find a high-quality roster of capable pool professionals quickly. As far as I'm concerned, they succeeded. No doubt, the application process may not have been the best possible approach to filling the initial roster, but a solid roster resulted from the methodology that was used.

The IPT has also devised the mechanism by which, over time, the elite will continue to qualify for partcipation on their tour, underperformers will lose their touring cards, and the spots that open will be filled based on a qualifying event accessible to all. This is, more or less, golf's system, and it has been praised often on our forum as very fair.

If the IPT has not done a perfect job in filling it's initial roster, they get a free pass from me, because they have built a solid player foundation for a tour and have built a mechanism for the future that ensures that the most deserving will have access to their tour.

I do feel bad for those who play world class pool and are not yet on the IPT roster, but feel that they will, eventually, earn their way in soon enough, and in the meantime, they may still qualify for some of the IPT events.

 

[Celtic]

SJM is correct.

How would you do it Theone. You claim you would just run international qualifiers for the spots? OK, what is the entry fee for these qualifiers? $25? $50? are you going to limit the fields and bring up controversy there? Because you are going to get thousands of people if the entry is really really low. Or are you going to make the entry fee high to get rid of the pretenders? OK, so previous to actually running an event how are you going to get all those top players to pay a substantial entry fee in order to win a spot onto a yet to start tour? I mean you had pro pool players that did not even go so far as to put in a free application to the tour online, now you want to run world qualifiers and figure the players would have incured the expense of that for a tour that had yet been met with extreme caution and skeptical attacks of it all being a scam?

They did it the only way they could. They needed a field of players BEFORE the first event, they needed to give these people the spots for free, they needed to make the applications free so that the top players did not feel any risk in the attempt to enter a tour that was met with extreme skeptics. Then they ran an event with that field and proved that it was no joke. This would not have worked any other way. I welcome you to tell me what you, TheOne would have done to begin this tour, and be specific, make sure you cover all the issues such as skeptisism and appathy that the IPT faced previous to its first couple of events.

 

[Scottster]

Danny did attempt to fill out the online application and never received any correspondence from the IPT either way, which made him wonder if he filled it out correctly. He hopes he didn't since he hasn't ever heard a word from any IPT official.
Like myself, he is in favor of the IPT, he is just really upset that his efforts of being one of the top players in the past 11 years has been overlooked.
This occurance, along with a couple of other blows he has taken in the recent past really has him down in the duldrems when it comes to the topic of a "Professional Tour".
Danny is a good guy. In his own words, he's "No Angel", but he is still on the other spectrum from Earl.
I am hopeful he will play in the IPT "Open" events later on in the year, and hopefully perform well enough in those to be a top 50 money winner.

 

[jjinfla]

Well everybody, how many of you expected that 46 people would jump into this qualifier? From the talk I heard I was expecting maybe a dozen applicants. Shows how dumb I am.

How many others are there who passed on this one but are waiting for one or more of the next three? I wouldn't be surprised to find the next three qualifiers with larger fields. After all, as the better players win their cards then the odds of winning increase.

And $92,000, minus costs, will be added to the salary of the players for 2006.

Jake

 

[sjm]

Like myself, he is in favor of the IPT, he is just really upset that his efforts of being one of the top players in the past 11 years has been overlooked.

The IPT selected those deemed the 150 most deserving of those whose applications were received on time. Danny Harriman wasn't among those considered, so the claim that his accomplishments have been overlooked is without basis.

If he did fill out an online application in a timely fashion, and the IPT denies having received it, let him produce his printout of that application, which I'm sure would have a time stamp on it. Or let him produce his E-mail confirmation that his application was received. Or let him produce a post on this forum in which he claims, before the application deadline, to have applied. Or let him produce an E-mail to the IPT in which he inquires about the status of his application prior to the deadline. There are many ways in which Danny could, more or less, corroborate that his application was filed in a timely way, and if he did so, I suspect something would be done about it. On hearsay evidence alone, it's a safe bet that nothing can be done.

I'm guessing, though I don't really know, that he missed the deadline and, if I'm right, he is responsible for the fact that his name was not considered. If that is the case, the suggestion that his achievements were overlooked by anyone is, very simply, false.

Harriman's a great player and he'll qualify for the 2007 tour if he wishes to. It's a shame he's not on the 2006 roster, but if this tour does well, I'm sure Danny will do well with it, which will please me and many others.

 

[nfty9er]

A coincidence

The IPT selected those deemed the 150 most deserving of those whose applications were received on time. Danny Harriman wasn't among those considered, so the claim that his accomplishments have been overlooked is without basis.

If he did fill out an online application in a timely fashion, and the IPT denies having received it, let him produce his printout of that application, which I'm sure would have a time stamp on it. Or let him produce his E-mail confirmation that his application was received. Or let him produce a post on this forum in which he claims, before the application deadline, to have applied. Or let him produce an E-mail to the IPT in which he inquires about the status of his application prior to the deadline. There are many ways in which Danny could, more or less, corroborate that his application was filed in a timely way, and if he did so, I suspect something would be done about it. On hearsay evidence alone, it's a safe bet that nothing can be done.

I'm guessing, though I don't really know, that he missed the deadline and, if I'm right, he is responsible for the fact that his name was not considered. If that is the case, the suggestion that his achievements were overlooked by anyone is, very simply, false.

Harriman's a great player and he'll qualify for the 2007 tour if he wishes to. It's a shame he's not on the 2006 roster, but if this tour does well, I'm sure Danny will do well with it, which will please me and many others.

Too funny SJM cause if you think back didn't Danny have a problem producing proof of some paperwork when he had that not being paid controversy. He misplaced his proof or something to that effect, cannot exactly remember(senility) but your response brought this to mind. lol

 

[nfty9er]

Don't mean to argue here, however

SJM is correct.

How would you do it Theone. You claim you would just run international qualifiers for the spots? OK, what is the entry fee for these qualifiers? $25? $50? are you going to limit the fields and bring up controversy there? Because you are going to get thousands of people if the entry is really really low. Or are you going to make the entry fee high to get rid of the pretenders? OK, so previous to actually running an event how are you going to get all those top players to pay a substantial entry fee in order to win a spot onto a yet to start tour? I mean you had pro pool players that did not even go so far as to put in a free application to the tour online, now you want to run world qualifiers and figure the players would have incured the expense of that for a tour that had yet been met with extreme caution and skeptical attacks of it all being a scam?

They did it the only way they could. They needed a field of players BEFORE the first event, they needed to give these people the spots for free, they needed to make the applications free so that the top players did not feel any risk in the attempt to enter a tour that was met with extreme skeptics. Then they ran an event with that field and proved that it was no joke. This would not have worked any other way. I welcome you to tell me what you, TheOne would have done to begin this tour, and be specific, make sure you cover all the issues such as skeptisism and appathy that the IPT faced previous to its first couple of events.

If they needed to give these spots for free, why are they now charging 2000 to qualify for only 8 spots. I still think they should have been chosen like everyone else.

 

[watchez]

Maybe some of the players that have been 'coaching' KT on how the IPT should be run with it's rules and formats had something to do with the players that were chosen. If all the top players were chosen then many of the 'shortstop' players would be off the top 100 after 1 year. Now with 'lesser' players (compare some of the IPT players to those that are now trying to qualify) it gives some of these 'shortstop' players and their buddies an extra year, so to speak, on the tour before they have to really worry about being top 100. They got free entry into the IPT compared to the risk of $2000 and they got a free extra year. Sweet for them. Not so sweet for say Alex P.