IPT To Be Sold???

[TheOne]

Players are the ASSETS.Players are like a PRODUCT and now it appears that those buisinessman know how to market that product.

Agreed but whats stopping all the players not turning up or playing on another tour? When a business is valued this is one of the key factors, whats stopping somebody else from starting a tour and all your "assets (players)" leaving you behind? Therefore the IPT currently has no assets unless the players have signed an exclusive contract to only play on the IPT, then he has something, certainly not $150m but something!

 

[whitewolf]

Therefore the IPT currently has no assets unless the players have signed an exclusive contract to only play on the IPT, then he has something, certainly not $150m but something!

In this arena, IMHO, even if all the players had signed a contract, this doesn't mean Jack.

FL had predicted that the Far East would take over the billiards world anyway.

 

[Island Drive]

Players are the ASSETS.Players are like a PRODUCT and now it appears that those buisinessman know how to market that product.

Mr Ho realizes through KT IPT start up that the interest is there worldwide!!!

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

My first thought was Mr Ho might be a pool freak, and with 3.5 BIL in your pocket, he might be buying the IPT for something to do. He already owns casinos, and if he brings the IPT to his casinos, who knows what its worth in marketing? For him to throw a few million at the IPT is like me playing $100 sets.....it's just not a big deal either way

Gerry

Maybe we'll see some IPT tournaments being held in Macau? ;-)

Macau may not yet be a household name to Americans but it appears to be an up-and-coming casino and gambling mecca. Consider the following excerpt taken from Forbes magazine:

Vegas of the East
Like most markets whose fortunes are tied to China's rapid growth, Macau puts up some staggering numbers. Three billion people live within a five-hour flight of the city, which is by far the region's biggest casino center. With $5 billion in annual gambling revenue, Macau is expected to take over the title of world's largest casino market this year.
"It's already bigger than Vegas, and it could be much bigger," reports T. Rowe Price's Fath.
As China grows richer and the government eases restrictions on travel, Macau is seeing its visitor numbers and gambling earnings soar. In the second quarter of 2006, Macau's gambling revenue was $1.6 billion, up 11.6% from a year ago. According to Goldman Sachs, full-year gambling revenue and visitor arrivals are expected to rise 15%.
Macau casinos also make more money per customer than do its rivals anywhere in the world. The average daily win per table in Las Vegas is about $2,000, according to Fath. Tables at the Sands Macao pull in quadruple that, he says, due to larger bets and more bets per table.
"The huge difference is that Chinese gamblers are more serious," says Fath

 

[jason]

Yes, the players are an asset. Infact, they are most important asset.
Without the combined power of the worlds best, the IPT becomes something a little less.

Magic and Larry helped to market the NBA, Hulk Hogan and Andre the Giant helped to grow the WWF,
Petty in NASCAR. It took a marriage with the professional organizations for all to benefit.
The IPT is the organization for pool. They have done it better than anyone else (so far). Both sides need each other.
The sum of the parts is greater than the whole!

KT has done a great job with the tournament format, tv promotion, venues, payouts, web site support, etc.
It was only getting better. I hope any new owners can do as good a job.

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

KT has done a great job with the tournament format, tv promotion, venues, payouts, web site support, etc.
It was only getting better. I hope any new owners can do as good a job.

People are too quick to assume the worst possible outcome. KT made a lot of promises about the IPT and for the most part, he has delivered. Players are getting much higher payouts than ever before. Have you forgotten that Thorsten Hohmann made 350K last month for winning the North American Open?

All things considered, KT has been very good for the game and to the players.

 

[TheOne]

Yes, the players are an asset. Infact, they are most important asset.
Without the combined power of the worlds best, the IPT becomes something a little less.

Magic and Larry helped to market the NBA, Hulk Hogan and Andre the Giant helped to grow the WWF,
Petty in NASCAR. It took a marriage with the professional organizations for all to benefit.
The IPT is the organization for pool. They have done it better than anyone else (so far). Both sides need each other.
The sum of the parts is greater than the whole!

KT has done a great job with the tournament format, tv promotion, venues, payouts, web site support, etc.
It was only getting better. I hope any new owners can do as good a job.

They certainly have done a great job but you are missing the point about how companies are valued. Nobody is saying that the players aren't an asset, the question is does the company (IPT) own this asset. As it stands the players are not an IPT owned asset, hence the question what value does the IPT have as a business entity?

 

[jason]

People are too quick to assume the worst possible outcome. KT made a lot of promises about the IPT and for the most part, he has delivered. Players are getting much higher payouts than ever before. Have you forgotten that Thorsten Hohmann made 350K last month for winning the North American Open?

All things considered, KT has been very good for the game and to the players.

Did I say anything different?

KT has done a superb job!

My only concern is without KT at the helm, it might faulter. That's all I was saying.

 

[jason]

They certainly have done a great job but you are missing the point about how companies are valued. Nobody is saying that the players aren't an asset, the question is does the company (IPT) own this asset. As it stands the players are not an IPT owned asset, hence the question what value does the IPT have as a business entity?

The IPT has a value similar (although much smaller) as Nascar, NBA, NFL, and the MLB.

The IPT brand KT has created has a value. The contracts he has negotiated have a value. To the best of my knowledge, the are no exclusive player contracts.

My conclusion is that the IPT does have a value. What that value is, I have no idea.

 

[Nostroke]

They certainly have done a great job but you are missing the point about how companies are valued. Nobody is saying that the players aren't an asset, the question is does the company (IPT) own this asset. As it stands the players are not an IPT owned asset, hence the question what value does the IPT have as a business entity?

If the IPT asked the players to sign an exclusivity contract, I'm guessing everyone would sign if they were guaranteed these same purses and X number of tournaments. What else could they do?

If the contract doesn't have those provisions and guys signed and then purses were cut, things could get hairy.

Im a little off topic here. I'm not addressing the acquisition which i think is likely to turn out a bit different than it is now being floated.

 

[TheOne]

The IPT has a value similar (although much smaller) as Nascar, NBA, NFL, and the MLB.

The IPT brand KT has created has a value. The contracts he has negotiated have a value. To the best of my knowledge, the are no exclusive player contracts.

My conclusion is that the IPT does have a value. What that value is, I have no idea.

NBA, Nascar!

It has a value yes, he's created a great brand, BUT at PRESENT the revenue isn't there. I'm not being negative btw Im just looking at the facts from a valuation point of view. The income earned from fans and merchandise will be negligable. Sponsorship seems to be growing but the way Euro Sport works means they wouldn't have made a cent in the short term from that deal. The website has potential to make money, but even if 10,000 people sign up which would be HUGE and probably take months if not years, at $5 a pop that might cover the site running costs.

If you was going to invest in this business what is your first question? When am I going to see a return, when will i get my money back? As it stands it has great potential BUT huge RISK. This RISK and lack of assets/revenue IMO would make it extreemly unlikely any investor would value the IPT so high.

That being said I did see lots of photos on the IPT website of players reading/signing what look liked contracts? Can anyone confirm what these were? We also don't know the deals the IPT has in the pipeline, or the details of their business plan. We also know KT is a great salesman so if anyone is going to talk it up and get top price he is. That being said the likes of Ho are going to see straight through the BS and look at the figures.

 

[jimmyg]

Lots of real questions

I believe that every AZ poster does, in fact, wish pool, the players and the fans the very best regardless of what they think about KT and his IPT creation, I know that I do. The two are not necessarily mutually inclusive.

But let's be totally honest. KT has a deep rooted reputation, as well as a proven history, for being deceptive and dishonest to both the public and his clientele.

$150M for an inviable business without any major assets and a unproven, unstable income stream sounds like quite a stretch. Businesses are usually sold based on multiples of their net incomes (gross income is often misleading), asset values. or combinations of both. Replacement value is usually used to appraise real estate. Good will, operational infrastructure, future income expectations, and sometimes emotional factors, may enhance overall company value after the first three factors are considered. Start-ups are more difficult to price, although ones without incomes or assets (including proprietary patented products) usually have little or no value to most investors.

Even if this $150M sale was entirely true, the benefits of this sale would go to KT and his inside group, not to the players or the fans.

I actually believe, given the surrounding facts; the cancellation of the London event and the loss of live European tournament coverage, that the IPT is loosing momentum because of lack of interest and lack of income. Of course, I can be wrong, but that is certainly the way it appears to me.

 

[blud]

It's very easy to sit on the side lines and complain about this and that, stating that this should of been done, or that. That's the easy part.

Come with the millions that Kevin has invested, then speak up, now you hcould possibly have room to voice your opinion., Then maybe, just maybe someone will take heed to your opinion.

No matter what happens the pool players have done well with, KT's money.
Before Kevin, formed the IPT, poolplayers had not much to play for. Just sort of a ring game. Over and over again.

If and when Kevin sells his end, so be it. No one in my opinion, needs to bash or ***** one bit.

Do the players and or the fans have anything coming? Not one cent. The players have played for more money than ever before. The fans got to see great talent playing for real HIGH STAKES, as never before.
All the players had a chance at big bucks.

Never heard of a fan much less a player putting up his two or three million, per event, to stage a tournament. Have any of you guys? Don't think so. Don't take my statements wrong, I love players and fans, just in this spot they have no *****es coming.

He is selling what he put together. Some will say he had nothing without the players. That's correct. However, what did the players have without KT and the IPT. NOTHING..........

Kevin gave our sport a huge boost. Good for him, and ALL of US, who make our living in the billiard business. I hope he makes a ton of money from the sale.

NO ONE, has ever put money into our sport as he has.
He wasn't gambling, he knew what he was doing. He's done our sport well. Good for you Kevin.
blud

 

[Eydie Romano]

It's very easy to sit on the side lines and complain about this and that, stating that this should of been done, or that. That's the easy part.

Come with the millions that Kevin has invested, then speak up, now you hcould possibly have room to voice your opinion., Then maybe, just maybe someone will take heed to your opinion.

No matter what happens the pool players have done well with, KT's money.
Before Kevin, formed the IPT, poolplayers had not much to play for. Just sort of a ring game. Over and over again.

If and when Kevin sells his end, so be it. No one in my opinion, needs to bash or ***** one bit.

Do the players and or the fans have anything coming? Not one cent. The players have played for more money than ever before. The fans got to see great talent playing for real HIGH STAKES, as never before.
All the players had a chance at big bucks.

Never heard of a fan much less a player putting up his two or three million, per event, to stage a tournament. Have any of you guys? Don't think so. Don't take my statements wrong, I love players and fans, just in this spot they have no *****es coming.

He is selling what he put together. Some will say he had nothing without the players. That's correct. However, what did the players have without KT and the IPT. NOTHING..........

Kevin gave our sport a huge boost. Good for him, and ALL of US, who make our living in the billiard business. I hope he makes a ton of money from the sale.

NO ONE, has ever put money into our sport as he has.
He wasn't gambling, he knew what he was doing. He's done our sport well. Good for you Kevin.
blud

Blud,

It's nice to see you back here and posting. I have missed your whit and charm!

Hugs, Eydie

 

[jason]

NBA, Nascar! ... BUT at PRESENT the revenue isn't there.

I'm not disagreeing at all, but I don't know either. IMO, to be profitable depends on the ability to draw TV sponsors (By the way, this is the IPT's commodity). They have the big dollars. The cheese that drives the huge payouts. Merchandise sales and website access would be minimal in comparison.

That being said I did see lots of photos on the IPT website of players reading/signing what look liked contracts?

I can't confirm, but I'm sure it has something to do with the rights to broadcast their image/performances. A standard practice in media.

 

[rackmsuckr]

I can't confirm, but I'm sure it has something to do with the rights to broadcast their image/performances. A standard practice in media.

Nothing as esoteric as contracts and release forms. They were tax forms and contact forms.

 

[Ummagumma]

I am surprised that everyone is surprised by this news. And I am surprised that this hasn't gotten around earlier. I thought everyone had an idea this was going to happen. I first heard rumblings about this back in May or June or so.

 

[billlaur]

what kind of a boost to Kt give pool,a shot in the ass there have on ly been 3 tournaments ,4th know going on,count em 4 in almost 2 yrs, not a great track record,what will happen now?I see it as the great 8 ball escape...

 

[Banks]

I'm positive I had read last year in an interview with him that he had already planned on selling the IPT after 2 years. He said that he was a big fan of pool and wanted to see something bigger come of it, which imho it has (whether its all that profitable is another story). He dumped money into it, got it started up and wanted to sell it off to another party to continue it.

 

[jjinfla]

I am surprised that everyone is surprised by this news. And I am surprised that this hasn't gotten around earlier. I thought everyone had an idea this was going to happen. I first heard rumblings about this back in May or June or so.

Selling the enterprise does not surprise me.

It sort of reminds me of the dot com era. House of cards and all that.

Yes, Sigel was talking about a meeting that KT had with a potential buyer, a couple months ago when Sigel was at Capones for a Qualifier.

But the amount of money mentioned then was $58 million. And I thought that was high at the time. I wonder how the price, whatever it is, was derived? It seems that all they have for sale is a name and an idea. Now if they own the players and everything associated with players who play in the tournament that may have some value. Right now I don't know what income generating product they have.

We will just have to wait and see what happens to the tour when the parties sign a contract.

Might as well enjoy this tournament and look forward to Chicago. Nothing we can do about it anyway.

Jake