IPT Travel and lodging expenses

JAM said:
... . This truly is REAL POOL with no room for rack riggers and break mechanics, and if you think they do not exist, you are living in a dream world. I saw one American icon at an event rack his own in a winners-rack format and make the EXACT SAME wing ball eight times in a row on his break. It was sickening.... M
I'm not sure what youi're saying. It's well known that if the rack is tight, the wing ball goes in almost every time. Was he supposed to rack the balls loose to keep the wing ball from going in?
 
8-ball bernie said:
you are so missing my point. i want pool players to get the uptmost respect, heck i'm one of them! what i am saying is this~~~~~~~ pool must appeal to the masses, not just you and i, we are the chior, don't preach to us. we need NEW viewers, new blood, the ipt will not come across as a circus or a freak show, but it will come across as an exciting sport, that takes skill and has lot's and lot's of pressure and drama, this is not your father's ESPN. that is my point, this is the dawning of a new era, pool will be a "real sport" serious and fun, but, it will be dramatic, exciting and new, none of this preaching to the chior stuff, a new exciting angle on pool. as kevin said in his own words, aai papraphrase here, it will have the seriousness of golf, with the entertainment and drama of poker.

Unfortunate that is not what you said, in fact quite the opposite. You seem to be caught up in the reality show aspect and not the playing of the sport. The top players that are the real deal will make it not some idiot doing everything he or she can to draw attention to themselves. The public have very short attention spans and no matter how you look at it the audience "WILL" be people already interested in the sport. If they can just draw them they will have a success. If not it will fail for sure. At the most the audience will be a very very small group. Pool is not a fad if they can draw a nitch audience, that will be the best they can hope for.
 
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8-ball bernie said:
you are so missing my point. i want pool players to get the uptmost respect, heck i'm one of them! what i am saying is this~~~~~~~ pool must appeal to the masses, not just you and i, we are the chior, don't preach to us. we need NEW viewers, new blood, the ipt will not come across as a circus or a freak show, but it will come across as an exciting sport, that takes skill and has lot's and lot's of pressure and drama, this is not your father's ESPN. that is my point, this is the dawning of a new era, pool will be a "real sport" serious and fun, but, it will be dramatic, exciting and new, none of this preaching to the chior stuff, a new exciting angle on pool. as kevin said in his own words, aai papraphrase here, it will have the seriousness of golf, with the entertainment and drama of poker.

Wait a second... let me get this right. You want people who know nothing about pool to watch a show about people who get loud and obnoxious when they miss a shot? And I quote,"they want to see strickland throw a chair across the room and hit the ref in the head!" Well you want to know something? They may want to watch that, but that is exactly the reason why pool does not appeal to the general public. Poolhalls in general have a bad rep as it is. The public believes that poolhalls are always filled with smoke and the only people who go to them are gamblers, drug addicts and just basically deviants of all kinds. Is this anyway to get the public interested? By showing all the cursing, sharking, and supposed "chair throwing" you are hurting the game, not helping it. Drama is one thing, but Jerry Springer stuff isn't drama, it's chaos. Instead of the drama that you insist on appealing to the public, why not enforce the encouragement of the intellectual aspects of the game. Show the public that it can be a game of chess not just banging balls and screaming like a luntatic.
 
let me say, i for one would love nothing more than to have pool as serious as a brain surgory operation. i appreciate the fact that good pool is skill at it's highest level. like golf, pool pros should be respected, and it should be looked at as a very involved (thinking ahead, pattern play positional skill, safteys, etc. etc.) i would love pool to finally after all these years get the respect it deserves, nothing would make me more pleased. but let us remember, everything comes down to money and television ratings, the ENTIRE ipt is based on ratings. the people who watch golf, in general are rich white republican men, who buy mercedes,and blue chip stocks, so the PGA has sponsorship, from these huge corporations, so that is how golf survives, mom's sisters, and grandmothers basically as a rule do not watch golf, thus the corporate sponsers do not care, because they have the rich white man supporting them, and that's all they care about. what i'm saying is this, the ipt's goal is to build an auidence, find an auidence, nuture the auidence. ratings is ALL important. now, i'm not saying pool players acting like clowns will be the ultimate answer, it won't, but pool players looking and thinking, looking and thinking, may not work either, agreed? what i am saying is that the reason why kevin is doing this in the first place is because he believes that pool can be profitable if shown to the "right" auidence. you see, ESPN was a HUGE failure, huge! they didn't and do not care about pool, they used it as filler! they only put it on when they needed to fill up space. thus, look who they got to watch pool~~~ not many people. the more mother's daughter's grandmothers and PEOPLE WHO DO NOT normally watch pool, tune in, the more success the ipt will have. so, as kevin said in the very first meeting, "television is everything", he went on to say, "this entire tour is based around television" "television comes first" and he is RIGHT! television should come first, let's face it, many, many millionaires, could have started a tour, but how many have the brains like kevin, to do it the right way, my answer, none of them, kevin, not only has the money, but the brains, to take the ipt and 8-ball into middle america, into everyone's homes, people will be saying, "i can't go out tonight veronica, the IPT is on, and on the coming attractions, mike sigel get's into a riff with c.j. wiley." now, there is TV. this is what will intrest middle america. not backspin, or inside english, no, personalitys, clashes, people human beings, under pressure, it's a new angle on pool, once again, they are NOT trying to make pool into circus, no, they will make it serrious, but with human drama, and inside,backround going on's with the players, and trying to survive. does this make sense? do you see the difference? it will feel as your there, sweating out the matches, and each week will bring more and more pressure and drama, until the finals! the auidence at home will come to love certain personalitys and hate other's, so that's where the ipt is at, it's not just pool like accu-stats or ESPN. it goes beyond that, it goes into the hearts and sweat of the player. i think i just won for longest post!
 
It suppose to be that way

juegabillar said:
JAM:

I was referring to the expenses of those who did not make it into the original 150 and have had to take their chances with qualifiers.

There is a great number of excellent players that were not in the original 150 and have had some great expenses in order to try to qualify for the Tour. It will take some time for these people to recover from their loses.

Those who were originally selected, and those who already qualified will get their chances to "recoup" the money invested. The others will have to stay at the sidelines for the time being with a couple of "thousand dollars" in the red until another qualifier comes up.

Everyone is happy for those who made it, but what about those who didn't?

This tour will benefit about 150 players of the thousands listed in the world. If we take into consideration that there are 153 recognized billiard organizations in the world, (not all of them pool) the average is not even 1 player per organization/country.

In reality, this tour will only benefit a few.......this means that the remaining players will have to survived with the "mom and pops" tournaments around the world that don't have the sponsorship and money being "poured in" by the IPT......but wait, the IPT has already ignored the established dates of our beloved "mom and pops" tournaments and have bumped them out of their already selected dates.....leaving them scambling for air......and last minutes changes that obviously cost money.....

I'm still scrambling with this IPT issue........

You seem to forget the IPT was patterned after the PGA tour. That number is exactly the number of PGA players on tour. Everyone else has to scramble. And there are a lot more golfers aspiring to be pro's than there will be pool players and it costs golfers a lot more. So I suggest you just accept that fact and go for it. It's true it will be difficult but the PGA does not seem to be hurting and it gets more popular yearly. And there are mini tours galore for the ones not at the top. So I see no problem. If there is a will there is a way.
 
8-ball bernie said:
let me say, i for one would love nothing more than to have pool as serious as a brain surgory operation. i appreciate the fact that good pool is skill at it's highest level. like golf, pool pros should be respected, and it should be looked at as a very involved (thinking ahead, pattern play positional skill, safteys, etc. etc.) i would love pool to finally after all these years get the respect it deserves, nothing would make me more pleased. but let us remember, everything comes down to money and television ratings, the ENTIRE ipt is based on ratings. the people who watch golf, in general are rich white republican men, who buy mercedes,and blue chip stocks, so the PGA has sponsorship, from these huge corporations, so that is how golf survives, mom's sisters, and grandmothers basically as a rule do not watch golf, thus the corporate sponsers do not care, because they have the rich white man supporting them, and that's all they care about. what i'm saying is this, the ipt's goal is to build an auidence, find an auidence, nuture the auidence. ratings is ALL important. now, i'm not saying pool players acting like clowns will be the ultimate answer, it won't, but pool players looking and thinking, looking and thinking, may not work either, agreed? what i am saying is that the reason why kevin is doing this in the first place is because he believes that pool can be profitable if shown to the "right" auidence. you see, ESPN was a HUGE failure, huge! they didn't and do not care about pool, they used it as filler! they only put it on when they needed to fill up space. thus, look who they got to watch pool~~~ not many people. the more mother's daughter's grandmothers and PEOPLE WHO DO NOT normally watch pool, tune in, the more success the ipt will have. so, as kevin said in the very first meeting, "television is everything", he went on to say, "this entire tour is based around television" "television comes first" and he is RIGHT! television should come first, let's face it, many, many millionaires, could have started a tour, but how many have the brains like kevin, to do it the right way, my answer, none of them, kevin, not only has the money, but the brains, to take the ipt and 8-ball into middle america, into everyone's homes, people will be saying, "i can't go out tonight veronica, the IPT is on, and on the coming attractions, mike sigel get's into a riff with c.j. wiley." now, there is TV. this is what will intrest middle america. not backspin, or inside english, no, personalitys, clashes, people human beings, under pressure, it's a new angle on pool, once again, they are NOT trying to make pool into circus, no, they will make it serrious, but with human drama, and inside,backround going on's with the players, and trying to survive. does this make sense? do you see the difference? it will feel as your there, sweating out the matches, and each week will bring more and more pressure and drama, until the finals! the auidence at home will come to love certain personalitys and hate other's, so that's where the ipt is at, it's not just pool like accu-stats or ESPN. it goes beyond that, it goes into the hearts and sweat of the player. i think i just won for longest post!


Based on what you say, if you have any idea what you are talking about, this thing has less chance then I thought. It will chase away the only audience they have or will ever have, the players, the rest of the public could care less regardless what they do. All they have maybe, is a nitch group of players who MAY watch or may not watch and from what you are saying they absolutely don't care about them. If you are right, they should fold the tent now and cut their loses.
 
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8-ball bernie said:
i believe, if pool was to become a popular sport to the masses, then the greatest players on earth, will not be a very big part of that success. i say this because, without naming names, the very best pool players on earth, lack personality, they resemble monotone robots, let's face it, joe schmo public does not want to tune into a drone. they want to see, ACTION! PERSONALITY~~ frantic, shotmaking, incredible shots, they want pool to become "alive" this ipt tour should not be about who is the greatest player in the world, no sir, the public doesn't care. they want persoanlity, they want to see strickland throw a chair across the room and hit the ref in the head! i don't want to see that, the public does! we live in a sick sound bite, show me action type of world. the ipt is trying to bring pool to the masses, PERIOD! let's face it, pool nuts already know, who the greatest players are, we are informed, however, the public wants more! they want Bernie Friend cursing under his breath, keith, complaining about something, karen corr beating the men, austin murphy who is only 12, beating efren reyes, the magician. this is what the ipt is about, if it were just about the top 10 players in the world do you know who would care? bob jewitt, pat flemming, you and 6 other pool nuts. that is NOT what the ipt is all about, it's goal is bring pool to the masses.

Please do name names. The very best pool players on Earth lack personality? Most of the "very best" pool players I know are a pretty unique bunch of people with plenty of personality - be it good or bad. The truth is, when Joe Schmoe public turns on the TV and sees the very best players in the world playing the same game he knows how to play - 8 ball - he will be entertained and appreciate the skill level that these players possess because he'll know that isn't the same game of 8-ball that he plays. What you describe, without the top notch talent, could never survive and would likely never make it to TV in the first place.
 
Bernie, Snooker and 9 ball attract millions and millions of people in the UK, Europe and Asia and I'm still to see a chair thrown in anger! Sure snooker has had its share of personalities, Alex Higgins arguably "made" snooker what it is but I would argue it wasn't because what he did in later years (headbutting referees etc) but purely and simply his quick pace, amazing skills and the emotions he showed. Ok snooker did have its first streaker (which I missed!!! :rolleyes: ) a couple of years ago (on the BBC no less) and I for one wouldn't disapprove of this being introduced into pool if it improved the ratings....oh what am I saying, stupid idea, we don't need gimmics! :D
 
Bob Jewett said:
I'm not sure what youi're saying. It's well known that if the rack is tight, the wing ball goes in almost every time. Was he supposed to rack the balls loose to keep the wing ball from going in?

And I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic.

If you read FURTHER on in the thread, you may find an answer to your inquiry.

No, Bob Jewett, a player is NOT supposed to rack the balls LOOSE to keep the wing ball from going in.

JAM
 
macguy said:
Not water under the bridge for the players and I use the term loosely, who will be maxing out their credit cards trying to keep up with expenses. All I can say is when you are at the tournaments watch out for the bite.

Not one single person is being required to attend any IPT tournament. No one. Not one not ever. No one is being forced to play in the IPT. Not one player is being physically coerced.

Wanna play in the Matchroom World Championships? Then be prepared to fade the political BS along with the expense that goes with it. Be prepared to play according to their rules. Wanna play in the US Open as many foreign players do? The be prepared for the expense and the knowledge that 17th place out of 256 pays something like 1500 dollars.

Going to any of these IPT events will incur a few extra room nights in expense and that's it. Otherwise the travel costs are the same, the food costs are the same, everything else is the same. So essentially the players are looking at an expense increase of about $600 per event to shoot at their share of millions of dollars in prize money as opposed to incurring the same expenses to shoot at FAR FAR less money.

There is no need to feel sorry for any player who is on tour and doesn't have the skills to compete or the money to travel. I'd be busy getting a job and some backers together if it were me. Any player who laments the costs ought to give up their tour card for someone else who would be more than willing to find the means.

Real Pool for Real Money takes Real Commitment

John
 
8-ball bernie said:
to you macguy i say this "cliffhangers" this is where the television shows make ALL of their money, from the tease for next week's show. how many times have you heard next week, paula sleeps, and then wakes up? john dresses up to go to work? NO you never, ever, ever hear that. why??? because it's B O R I N G ! ! you hear, next weeks show, missy gets a call from a stranger, john falls and damages his head, will he be able to go on? all of these reality tv shows are based on stay tuned!!!!!!!!! and the ipt will probally show, on next weeks king of the hill, then they will show clips of the ref making a mistake and taking the balls away before the game was over! gay liel falling down!!!!!!! stuff like that! to make the viewer STAY TUNED!! look at every reality tv show that's on now. what do they all have in common? they all have in common, "oh wow nancy, i have to watch next weeks show, did you SEE those coming attractions!!!!!" so if you think i'm crazy, your wrong, and do not ever go into the world of television, if you did, this would be your tease for next week "watch mika immonen play great, and make no mistakes" wow! that's exciting isn't it?????!!!!!!


Besides the fact that I believe you have never actually set foot in a pool room I think you are pretty far off the mark as to what the "public" will or will not watch.

Golf and Tennis seem to do just fine being on TV every week showing their pros playing perfect. They seem to do just fine without the hyped up drama. I know Kevin wants to have more characters in his shows and I am sure he would like for some rivalries to develop and some trash talk to occur. I am sure that the production will be geared towards making the event exciting and hyping the intensity. Even so I believe that the high class pool will take center stage and Kevin will revel in the fact that the best of the best are competing on his tour.

You know he doesn't want a repeat visit to 20/20 asking him how in the hell Bernie Friend could seriously be the King of The Hill. :-)) I know, that's mean, but I don't deserve to be on the IPT because of my lack of skills and I suspect that yours aren't much better. I say that you should enjoy the ride while you are on it because the line to get back on is going to be long and brutal.

John
 
onepocketchump said:
Not one single person is being required to attend any IPT tournament. No one. Not one not ever. No one is being forced to play in the IPT. Not one player is being physically coerced.

Wanna play in the Matchroom World Championships? Then be prepared to fade the political BS along with the expense that goes with it. Be prepared to play according to their rules. Wanna play in the US Open as many foreign players do? The be prepared for the expense and the knowledge that 17th place out of 256 pays something like 1500 dollars.

Going to any of these IPT events will incur a few extra room nights in expense and that's it. Otherwise the travel costs are the same, the food costs are the same, everything else is the same. So essentially the players are looking at an expense increase of about $600 per event to shoot at their share of millions of dollars in prize money as opposed to incurring the same expenses to shoot at FAR FAR less money.

There is no need to feel sorry for any player who is on tour and doesn't have the skills to compete or the money to travel. I'd be busy getting a job and some backers together if it were me. Any player who laments the costs ought to give up their tour card for someone else who would be more than willing to find the means.

Real Pool for Real Money takes Real Commitment

John


That's my point, many are not real pool players and are chasing a carrot on a stick.
 
onepocketchump said:
Besides the fact that I believe you have never actually set foot in a pool room I think you are pretty far off the mark as to what the "public" will or will not watch.

But he has the trailer park crowd figured out pretty well :D

Dave
 
JAM said:
As they say in business, sometimes it takes money to make money. :p



JAM

I think Jams post make it 100% Clear, it is an Investment in Yourself if you want to be in the IPT REAL BAD.

Otherwise stay home and get a Real job with Regular Hours, Benefits, Pension Benefits, and be a U.S. Goverment Employee like in the Army were you can be all you want to be....:rolleyes:
 
macguy said:
That's my point, many are not real pool players and are chasing a carrot on a stick.

So? Who knows what their motivation is? Maybe they just want to enjoy the privilege of mixing it up with the champions in a historical format. Maybe most of them never figured they had a chance to get in anyway but since they did they might as well go for it. Maybe some of them are "real" pool player but they don't know it yet and their game will flourish when they are surrounded by champions.

Still, whatever the player's motivations are for playing on the IPT, not one of them is being coerced to be there. Each of them will probably revel in the experience for the rest of their lives no matter what happens. To me this is worth the amount of money they are spending to be there.

I am sure one or two of them have toyed with the idea of selling their spot, which was quickly made a moot point.

So, there is no arm twisting. Sure there are some players who are chasing the carrot with no hope of getting it but there are more players on tour with more than enough firepower to get the carrot and the cheese. In 2007 just about all the players on tour will be "real players" as you put it and then there won't be any debate as to who deserves to be there.

It is a testament to what Kevin has already done and what he promises that so many are willing to chase the dream even if they have only an outside chance of any success.

John
 
onepocketchump said:
So? Who knows what their motivation is? Maybe they just want to enjoy the privilege of mixing it up with the champions in a historical format. Maybe most of them never figured they had a chance to get in anyway but since they did they might as well go for it. Maybe some of them are "real" pool player but they don't know it yet and their game will flourish when they are surrounded by champions.

Still, whatever the player's motivations are for playing on the IPT, not one of them is being coerced to be there. Each of them will probably revel in the experience for the rest of their lives no matter what happens. To me this is worth the amount of money they are spending to be there.

I am sure one or two of them have toyed with the idea of selling their spot, which was quickly made a moot point.

So, there is no arm twisting. Sure there are some players who are chasing the carrot with no hope of getting it but there are more players on tour with more than enough firepower to get the carrot and the cheese. In 2007 just about all the players on tour will be "real players" as you put it and then there won't be any debate as to who deserves to be there.

It is a testament to what Kevin has already done and what he promises that so many are willing to chase the dream even if they have only an outside chance of any success.

John

If this thing does survive it will be double tough especially with the round robin format. You won't even see players like Keith still there and none of the girls, it will be all for real champions and every match will be worth it's weight in gold. Winning a tournament will be an amazing feat and will require perfect play. This year though half the matches you will know the out come before they even play.
 
macguy said:
If this thing does survive it will be double tough especially with the round robin format. You won't even see players like Keith still there and none of the girls, it will be all for real champions and every match will be worth it's weight in gold. Winning a tournament will be an amazing feat and will require perfect play. This year though half the matches you will know the out come before they even play.
I think you are wrong if you mean Keith Mcready, and I think Karen and Allison both have a chance to stay.
 
Wow, this is insane here.... who in the hell really believes that the IPT is trying to market to the niche crowd of pool players????? NOTHING I repeat, NOTHING they have done to this point should make anyone think they ARE....

Anyone who has tried that in the past has failed miserably... You don't try to bolster something like pool up and improve the number of interested parties by appealing to the people that are already invested in it... How do you think that golf or poker got to the popularity level that it did?

The TV exposure and the ability for common friends to talk about it did....

With golf a lot of bosses and respected people would play it and talk about it after the weekend so you had people trying to play it so that they could have something in common with those respected people.... When people start to get interested in something they see on TV or are done by people they respect, they want to do it too. It's claled word of mouth advertising...

The IPT is trying to make something that is relatable to the vast majority of people out there to bolster and take control of an under developed industry. They are doing this by introducing an element of drama that non pool players can relate to and by using a game(eightball) that the majority of currently non interested pool players (i.e. bangers or non players) can relate to..

Then once the industry IS bolstered, they will be in a unique position to take complete control of it. Why do you think they are marketing the IPT brand name in pool related products?

Because they don't want to sell them and lose money? Come on don't be naive....

It's because they expect to have tons of non branded customers wanting to play.. Enough to completely dwarf the existing base of customers who are interested only in GC's and Diamonds..

Why do you think diamond was so quick to jump in and agree to make their tables??? Because the possibility of increased profits from doing so is extremely high.....

KT knows all of this and planned it from the beginning, why do you think he doesn't give any credence to the existing establishments and pool fan community.. Because it's going to be a moot point and he wouldn't want to acknowledge their stranglehold on the exsiting billiards industry.....

BErnie is right to an extent......It will take drama and a game and things that the non pool players can relate to for the IPT to succeed... If you were to gain the support of the entire existing fanbase, it would fail miserably, or the existing pool tours would have already generated success as opposed to continuing diminshing returns to the players in tournaments as years go by.....
 
etimmons said:
I think you are wrong if you mean Keith Mcready, and I think Karen and Allison both have a chance to stay.

I don't know, with the possible future level of competition I doubt it. Certainly not for the girls, they will be history for sure and so will Keith unless he raises his game to today's level of competition. You have to be realistic I think, these will be tough tournaments, no freebees here, it will have to be earned every step of the way.
 
macguy said:
I don't know, with the possible future level of competition I doubt it. Certainly not for the girls, they will be history for sure and so will Keith unless he raises his game to today's level of competition. You have to be realistic I think, these will be tough tournaments, no freebees here, it will have to be earned every step of the way.

I don't know if you have been following what's going on in the pool world but both Karen and Allison have beaten on male players, male players have commented on how strong they play and I have no doubt in my mind that Karen Corr, Allison Fisher and Kelly Fisher will all retain their tour cards for 2007 and beyond.

As for Keith, his bad game is still world class. You might as well say that Parica has no chance to keep his tour card. Keith McCready was playing world class pool for large $$$$ as a teenager. Recently he took third in the US Open, second at the Joss Tour finals and regularly finishes in the money against world beaters.

This thing will go off as planned, the competition will be fierce, the winner will be rewarded handsomely and the players will enjoy an average income that is far above what they can currently earn. With the splashing of pool on TV sets around America there will be a resurgence of popularity for pool which will spawn bigger and better tours and tournaments.

And it will all be put on by a guy who advocates drinking juice every day, not smoking, vaccuming out your colon and generally living healthy. What's wrong with that. Along the way some lucky pool players will get to be a part of history in the making for a year.

John
 
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