Is Alex the Best Player Alive?

[jay helfert]

You made some excellent points. The action players have certainly earned your respect and mine.

Still, when it comes to deciding who's the best, there is only one way. Put all the great players in the same place at the same time and after they all duke it out, find out who's the last man standing. That's what the major tournaments do.

It's a lot easier to wear down even the most worthy opponent in an action situation than it is to knock off champion after champion to win a major title.
Action games give you room for error. Winning five sets out of eight gets it done in action pool but it's not nearly good enough in tournament play. An hour of poor play may or may not bury you playing fifteen ahead.

It's not about the money, otherwise my idol would be the B player who beats another B player out of 5,000,000.

Greatness is about beating the best, one right after another. Only a few are up to this profound challenge, and only they have the right to be called the best.

I admire the action players, and do appreciate that many of them are wonderful and gifted players, but greatness is about sustained excellence, and only a tournament tests one's ability to produce scintillating stretches of sustained excellence.

You make your point quite well and I cannot and will not disagree with your logic. It DOES take a great player to win against the other great players. And in a tournament, you do have to win right now! No room for error. It's always been interesting to me that no matter what the rules are and the conditions, the cream always seems to rise to the top in Pool. Short race, long race, break from the box, break from the side, alternate break, whatever, the best players keep getting there in the end.
My theory is that near the end of a tournament, the pressure is the greatest and the best players have the "heart" to handle it. Other good players may show some weakness as they get close to the goal line. It's almost as if they know they aren't supposed to beat the other guy, so they don't. I've been witnessing this phenomena for a long time.
The best closer I ever saw was Mike Sigel. He knew how to seal the deal. He was at his best under pressure in a big tournament match. Buddy and Earl I would rate tied for second. They all could and would play super with the title on the line.
Over the years my experience was that in any given tournament with 64 or more top players, you could pick the winner from a small group of five or six guys. The rest of the pack was playing to finish high.
Take care and nice chatting with you.

 

[jay helfert]

Sorry I dont agree. It all rests on the schedule and the pick. You get lined up with tough players and lose one set you go on the losers side. Then you get scheduled with 5 matches in one day and make it to the finals and have to get up in the morning to play your semi final. All the while your opponent gets some soft matches and can get that rest to play the finals in the early evening.
If tournaments were a round robin kind of thing it would be a greater test.
Action matches are head on one to one matches with the better player ending up on top. There is no "bye" or easy matches or getting afternoon matches. Its just you and him.
So I feel action matches is just as good a barometer. I agree with Jay. Jose is one of the best.

Thanks, you both make very good points. I tend to agree with you that the absolute best pool players are the ones that consistently take it off playing against the other top guys. I'm not talking about hustlers who out maneuver somebody and make a score. I'm talking about match ups like Archer against Bustamante and Hatch vs. Tadd a few years back. That's when you get to see the absolute best pool. Two great players locking horns for the long haul.
And over the last 15 years or so, the "man" to beat to be the best was Parica.
On the other hand to win a major tournament like the U.S. Open takes a great player (maybe tougher than the WPC) who can handle a diet of one top gun after another. And Alex has sure proved himself in this arena. And by the way, I like him playing for the cheese as well. He's plain tough all around.
Winner's side, loser's side, the best players find a way to get to that final four, and give themselves a chance to win.
Thanks for your input. You can tell I enjoy this conversation. I'm still a little of a fanatic about pool. Fats said it best, "The greatest game man ever invented"!

 

[jay helfert]

Sorry I dont agree. It all rests on the schedule and the pick. You get lined up with tough players and lose one set you go on the losers side. Then you get scheduled with 5 matches in one day and make it to the finals and have to get up in the morning to play your semi final. All the while your opponent gets some soft matches and can get that rest to play the finals in the early evening.
If tournaments were a round robin kind of thing it would be a greater test.
Action matches are head on one to one matches with the better player ending up on top. There is no "bye" or easy matches or getting afternoon matches. Its just you and him.
So I feel action matches is just as good a barometer. I agree with Jay. Jose is one of the best.

One other thing, I totally agree that to really find out who the best player is, let them play round robin like the old 14.1 tournaments. Hey you gave me a great idea. Invite the top ten or twelve players in the world for a round robin 9-Ball event. I like long matches, like two of three sets, race to nine. Whoever is left standing after something like that would deserve bragging rights.

 

[jay helfert]

I happen to live in Ashe County, NC. which happens to be connected to both states.

God's country!

 

[phoebe choy]

just had to respond

from what i hear alex has not beat any of the top phillipino - philippino players for money. rather players like dennis orcullio own him. before the WPC dennis won 40.000 large american dollars. from alex. i dont think the best player in the world have that kind loss. in my mind he is a top 10 player. he also has the reputation of being a Trick at all forms of wagering. should not be a hero type for young players.

I visit this forum almost daily to keep up with the "pool world" and I have MANY views and opinions on a lot of the issues posted....but I couldn't resist, and HAD to register to specifically to this one....

First of all, Alex has been beaten by Orcullo a few times, but he doesn't "OWN" him. Majority of the sets went to the hill and were decided by one game. Also, it wasn't 40 large, I know, who do you think had to send the money???? Huh? Lastly, Alex drilled him the last time they played, the stakes were higher, and Dennis and the backer apparently refused to play again after that.

Believe me, A LOT of "best player's" have lost. They ALL took their licks and have their highs and lows. But, they ALL have lost sometime or another.

Your last two sentences are really off-base. You make like he's some kind of devil or something?! All his bets, whether jumping, flipping beers, tossing coins, etc. are all legit. He does it - he gets paid - isn't that how it's supposed to work?

He never once asked to be a "hero type" to young kids either. But, since you had to go there.....so be it. First off, Alex loves kids. Of course a pool players life is not anyone really wishes their kids to pick up, but please don't use Alex as the example here. He's learning how to be in the "limelight" and as far as I know isn't all that different in his actions than most of the other players out there, except that he smiles and cracks jokes a lot more frequently. On his behalf I would like to end by saying that I think it's rather refreshing seeing the "kid" in him - that's Alex, forever a kid at heart.

 

[JAM]

I visit this forum almost daily to keep up with the "pool world" and I have MANY views and opinions on a lot of the issues posted....but I couldn't resist, and HAD to register to specifically to this one....

First of all, Alex has been beaten by Orcullo a few times, but he doesn't "OWN" him. Majority of the sets went to the hill and were decided by one game. Also, it wasn't 40 large, I know, who do you think had to send the money???? Huh? Lastly, Alex drilled him the last time they played, the stakes were higher, and Dennis and the backer apparently refused to play again after that.

Believe me, A LOT of "best player's" have lost. They ALL took their licks and have their highs and lows. But, they ALL have lost sometime or another.

Your last two sentences are really off-base. You make like he's some kind of devil or something?! All his bets, whether jumping, flipping beers, tossing coins, etc. are all legit. He does it - he gets paid - isn't that how it's supposed to work?

He never once asked to be a "hero type" to young kids either. But, since you had to go there.....so be it. First off, Alex loves kids. Of course a pool players life is not anyone really wishes their kids to pick up, but please don't use Alex as the example here. He's learning how to be in the "limelight" and as far as I know isn't all that different in his actions than most of the other players out there, except that he smiles and cracks jokes a lot more frequently. On his behalf I would like to end by saying that I think it's rather refreshing seeing the "kid" in him - that's Alex, forever a kid at heart.

Phoebe, welcome to AzBilliards Discussion Forum!

ANYBODY who knows Alex, even just a little bit, is aware that he is a champion. The proof is in the pudding, and Alex has certainly demonstrated over the past several years that he's the real deal! AND he's still a young man and has a long pool life ahead of him.

Personally, I was elated to see him competing at this year's U.S. Open. We haven't had the opportunity to see Alex in recent times up front and close, but certainly have read about all of his recent accomplishments and championship title wins. Though he has represented Canada and The Philippines, he has become an icon in America not only because of his caliber of play, but because he is Mr. Personality. Everybody who meets Alex Pagulayan enjoys him on and off the table. He's truly a nice guy.

Is Alex Pagulayan the best player alive? His track record speaks for itself. Aside from being the 2004 World Pool Champion and now the 2005 U.S. Open Champion, two of the toughest competitions in the world, he is capable of winning any event he plays in. Congratulations to Alex the Lion on this recent great win! Very deserving and well done!

JAM

 

[phoebe choy]

Phoebe, welcome to AzBilliards Discussion Forum!

ANYBODY who knows Alex, even just a little bit, is aware that he is a champion. The proof is in the pudding, and Alex has certainly demonstrated over the past several years that he's the real deal! AND he's still a young man and has a long pool life ahead of him.

Personally, I was elated to see him competing at this year's U.S. Open. We haven't had the opportunity to see Alex in recent times up front and close, but certainly have read about all of his recent accomplishments and championship title wins. Though he has represented Canada and The Philippines, he has become an icon in America not only because of his caliber of play, but because he is Mr. Personality. Everybody who meets Alex Pagulayan enjoys him on and off the table. He's truly a nice guy.

Is Alex Pagulayan the best player alive? The proof is in the pudding, and his track record speaks for itself. Aside from being the 2004 World Pool Champion and now the 2005 U.S. Open Champion, two of the toughest competitions in the world, he is capable of winning any event he plays in. Congratulations to Alex the Lion on this recent great win! Very deserving and well done!

JAM

Thank you JAM! I remember meeting you in 2004 (or 2003?) in NY, you gave me and Alex a ride to the tournament from the hotel. I also was there last year when Keith did so well at the US Open (I distinctly remember the match where Keith beat Alex )

I know the people that know Alex, such as you and Keith, understand and appreciate all 5'3" of him!!! Sometimes I think our guys are just completely misunderstood, you think?

Thanks again for the kind words. Hopefully I can make it to the Derby again this January - maybe I'll see you there?! Until then, you and Keith take care!

HMMMMMM, thanks also for the picture JAM.....now I definitely know he started smoking cigarettes....again! Hahaha

 

[LastTwo]

Thank you JAM! I remember meeting you in 2004 (or 2003?) in NY, you gave me and Alex a ride to the tournament from the hotel. I also was there last year when Keith did so well at the US Open (I distinctly remember the match where Keith beat Alex )

I know the people that know Alex, such as you and Keith, understand and appreciate all 5'3" of him!!! Sometimes I think our guys are just completely misunderstood, you think?

Thanks again for the kind words. Hopefully I can make it to the Derby again this January - maybe I'll see you there?! Until then, you and Keith take care!

HMMMMMM, thanks also for the picture JAM.....now I definitely know he started smoking cigarettes....again! Hahaha

LOL good one Jam! You got Alex busted by his lady. Shame on you! (j/k)

 

[LastTwo]

I visit this forum almost daily to keep up with the "pool world" and I have MANY views and opinions on a lot of the issues posted....but I couldn't resist, and HAD to register to specifically to this one....

First of all, Alex has been beaten by Orcullo a few times, but he doesn't "OWN" him. Majority of the sets went to the hill and were decided by one game. Also, it wasn't 40 large, I know, who do you think had to send the money???? Huh? Lastly, Alex drilled him the last time they played, the stakes were higher, and Dennis and the backer apparently refused to play again after that.

Believe me, A LOT of "best player's" have lost. They ALL took their licks and have their highs and lows. But, they ALL have lost sometime or another.

Your last two sentences are really off-base. You make like he's some kind of devil or something?! All his bets, whether jumping, flipping beers, tossing coins, etc. are all legit. He does it - he gets paid - isn't that how it's supposed to work?

He never once asked to be a "hero type" to young kids either. But, since you had to go there.....so be it. First off, Alex loves kids. Of course a pool players life is not anyone really wishes their kids to pick up, but please don't use Alex as the example here. He's learning how to be in the "limelight" and as far as I know isn't all that different in his actions than most of the other players out there, except that he smiles and cracks jokes a lot more frequently. On his behalf I would like to end by saying that I think it's rather refreshing seeing the "kid" in him - that's Alex, forever a kid at heart.

Looks like JMB just got "owned" by Phoebe! LOL I just love how some jerk goes on a public forum and tells all of these lies about someone, and gets CAUGHT by someone who knows the TRUTH! JMB you should be ashamed of yourself, please keep your mouth shut if you don't know what you are talking about.

Phoebe thanks for clearing that up.

 

[647km2]

Whats that Alex is holding on his hand?

Is it a box of cigaratte? Looks like a Marlboro Light to me.

Regards....

 

[Renegade]

Hopefully Alex wins the DCC this coming january. That will put all the naysayers to rest....

 

[Lucky Lance]

I've known Phoebe for a while, and both she and Alex are good people. People should look at themselves in the mirror before making judgemental comments about others. Alex is just Alex. Let him be himself. He's just trying to be the best pool player he can be--not some kid's role model. Parents should be their children's role models; not athletes or celebrities. Althletes are looked up to because they excel in one specific sport, however kids should instead be looking up to their parents as role models as far as forming themselves to become a good person. I have two kids of my own, and my wife and I always keep this in mind. Anyway, guys here in Hawaii love the guy; he blends right in. Like Phoebe, I don't post very often. But I had to put in my $0.02 on this one.

 

[Rickw]

Thank you JAM! I remember meeting you in 2004 (or 2003?) in NY, you gave me and Alex a ride to the tournament from the hotel. I also was there last year when Keith did so well at the US Open (I distinctly remember the match where Keith beat Alex )

I know the people that know Alex, such as you and Keith, understand and appreciate all 5'3" of him!!! Sometimes I think our guys are just completely misunderstood, you think?

Thanks again for the kind words. Hopefully I can make it to the Derby again this January - maybe I'll see you there?! Until then, you and Keith take care!

HMMMMMM, thanks also for the picture JAM.....now I definitely know he started smoking cigarettes....again! Hahaha

Phoebe,

Nice to see you posting. Are you playing again? You were really making some news a while back as maybe being the best young player around.

BTW, I've seen Alex play a few times in person and he's one of the most classy players out there. He kind of reminds me of Efren when it comes to attitute because he never seems to get out of line.

 

[Rickw]

So your criteria for the best player is who wins the biggest tournaments.
That is a valid criteria, but not the only one. Just like in Poker where the best players do not necessarily win tournaments (they play the biggest money games), pool has always had similar greats.
Over the last 15 years or so the most feared money player on the planet was surprisingly not Efren, but Jose. Do you know he has beaten every top player for the cash and spotted many of them. Until recently Alex wanted no part of him.

Wow! This post really surprises me! I knew Jose was a very good money player but I didn't know he was considered to be better than Efren. I certainly do respect your opinion because you've been so close to all the best players for quite a while. Thank you for sharing this. It certainly changes some of my assumptions!

 

[yobagua]

No Rick buddy. Jay didnt say he was better. Although Jose will set you straight on that. LOL. But he said he was the most feared. That is because Jose has the heart of a lion. He will gamble with you and find a way to beat you giving you ridiculous spots. He is fearless and has the tenacity to eke it out. He is not afraid of losing either.

 

[yobagua]

"First of all, Alex has been beaten by Orcullo a few times, but he doesn't "OWN" him. Majority of the sets went to the hill and were decided by one game. Also, it wasn't 40 large, I know, who do you think had to send the money???? Huh? Lastly, Alex drilled him the last time they played, the stakes were higher, and Dennis and the backer apparently refused to play again after that"

I think we have to be careful about specific figures when we talk about who won what. Often times a player will expand the amount if he is boasting or downsize it to cover from getting bitten. Also rumors fly around from one ear to another so that 4 LARGE can mean 400 or 4000 or 40,000. But the player usually after his backer gets his and his room rent ends up with 40. So who knows.

Once 2 pros got together in a money match the backers put up 10 K each. Word all over town was that so and so won 20K. But it was for only 10. He got his 40% cut which was 4K and after giving his opponent, a fellow pro, get out of town money $800 was left with $3200. After his travel and hotel expenses and picking up several tabs as winners must do ended up with about $2000. Meanwhile everyone is wondering why this pro is playing for $50 sets after winning $20 K. So the reason I never believe posts about specific amounts.

 

[phoebe choy]

I've known Phoebe for a while, and both she and Alex are good people. People should look at themselves in the mirror before making judgemental comments about others. Alex is just Alex. Let him be himself. He's just trying to be the best pool player he can be--not some kid's role model. Parents should be their children's role models; not athletes or celebrities. Althletes are looked up to because they excel in one specific sport, however kids should instead be looking up to their parents as role models as far as forming themselves to become a good person. I have two kids of my own, and my wife and I always keep this in mind. Anyway, guys here in Hawaii love the guy; he blends right in. Like Phoebe, I don't post very often. But I had to put in my $0.02 on this one.

Much appreciated Lance, thank you for your support.

Also, great point about children and role models, in fact in church this weekend our Pastor mentioned that our children understand who God is thru us (their parents). That we (the parents) are the examples for our children when they think about God (and all the good and great things He is about). It truly is a big task for us as parents to be good role models for our own kids let alone other kids too.

Oh yeah, by the way, Alex will be "daddy of two" with me as well!! Tomorrow I go in for my delivery....so wish me luck

 

[phoebe choy]

Phoebe,

Nice to see you posting. Are you playing again? You were really making some news a while back as maybe being the best young player around.

BTW, I've seen Alex play a few times in person and he's one of the most classy players out there. He kind of reminds me of Efren when it comes to attitute because he never seems to get out of line.

Hey Rick,

I wish I was playing again!! Kind of like I dropped off the face of the earth, yeah? Well, after giving birth to our daughter in April 2004, I did start practicing again toward the end of the year, and was in ok form at the Derby 2005. But, found out shortly after that that I was pregnant....again! So (what a coincidence) I'm actually due to give birth tomorrow. After that, I will definitely get back to playing ASAP. I miss the game (i.e. excitement, action, pressure, tournaments, etc.) BADLY. I haven't touched my pool stick since the Derby! There are still a lot of goals I wanted to accomplish as far as pool, and I will forever have the drive/desire to take my game to higher levels. But, I don't mind the hiatus, my kids are first always. Being a parent is truly a joy for me and I gladly put pool aside for their sake.

Anyways, Alex seems to be doing just fine in his tournaments...hehe! HE is making the news now days and THAT I don't mind either. Afterall, thats what this thread is about, right?

 

[onepocketchump]

Much appreciated Lance, thank you for your support.

Also, great point about children and role models, in fact in church this weekend our Pastor mentioned that our children understand who God is thru us (their parents). That we (the parents) are the examples for our children when they think about God (and all the good and great things He is about). It truly is a big task for us as parents to be good role models for our own kids let alone other kids too.

Oh yeah, by the way, Alex will be "daddy of two" with me as well!! Tomorrow I go in for my delivery....so wish me luck

WOW!!!! You go girl!!!! Now that's a pool pedigree right there! Good luck Phoebe.

John

 

[Rickw]

Hey Rick,

I wish I was playing again!! Kind of like I dropped off the face of the earth, yeah? Well, after giving birth to our daughter in April 2004, I did start practicing again toward the end of the year, and was in ok form at the Derby 2005. But, found out shortly after that that I was pregnant....again! So (what a coincidence) I'm actually due to give birth tomorrow. After that, I will definitely get back to playing ASAP. I miss the game (i.e. excitement, action, pressure, tournaments, etc.) BADLY. I haven't touched my pool stick since the Derby! There are still a lot of goals I wanted to accomplish as far as pool, and I will forever have the drive/desire to take my game to higher levels. But, I don't mind the hiatus, my kids are first always. Being a parent is truly a joy for me and I gladly put pool aside for their sake.

Anyways, Alex seems to be doing just fine in his tournaments...hehe! HE is making the news now days and THAT I don't mind either. Afterall, thats what this thread is about, right?

Yeah. I love playing pool so I can just imagine what kind of agony you're going through not being able to play. However, I also have two kids, 24 and 22, and I love them both dearly! Your kids will be your kids for the rest of your life so you're making the right decision about laying off pool and taking care of them right now. This doesn't make it easy though. From what I understand, you have a great deal of potential with pool and I'm sure that one of these days, your time will come. Maybe Alex can watch the kids for a while so you can get out there and play some. My wife and I did that, take turns watching the kids while each of us got a chance to get out there and play some. If he doesn't, get yo bradder to keek he's ass a lil'. Ha Ha. I lived in Hawaii for a couple of years. When I visited there a couple of years ago, the lady at Hawaiian Brian's that cooks in the back gave me some good local treatment. Ha Ha. I love Hawaii and would gladly live there if I could.