Is betting on pool legal in your state?

Kevin3824

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I know it would depend on where you live. I am wondering specifically for Pennsylvania but Other states would be nice to know as well. I know betting on a game of chance is gambling but I am not sure if pool is considered a game of chance or skill? I know most pool halls I have been in have signs saying no gambling. I was under the impression if you bet your opponent and do not have anyone holding the money for you and no stakehorses are involved it was not considered gambling. However, if others bet on the outcome of your game that was gambling. Maybe I am just confused as to what gambling really is.
 

HoldemRw

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I pretty sure it is alright in PA to bet on pool. However I live in VA and it is against law here to gamble. I know PA has casinos in that state so I assume gambling is legal there.

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realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
I know it would depend on where you live. I am wondering specifically for Pennsylvania but Other states would be nice to know as well. I know betting on a game of chance is gambling but I am not sure if pool is considered a game of chance or skill? I know most pool halls I have been in have signs saying no gambling. I was under the impression if you bet your opponent and do not have anyone holding the money for you and no stakehorses are involved it was not considered gambling. However, if others bet on the outcome of your game that was gambling. Maybe I am just confused as to what gambling really is.

You betting on YOU beating the person you're playing, and HIM betting you he's going to beat you is betting on skill, legal most everywhere you go. Gambling starts the second you or the person you're playing, makes a side bet with someone not directly involved in the match, or spectators start betting umong themselves on one or the other players directly involved playing.
 

jayburger

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You betting on YOU beating the person you're playing, and HIM betting you he's going to beat you is betting on skill, legal most everywhere you go. Gambling starts the second you or the person you're playing, makes a side bet with someone not directly involved in the match, or spectators start betting umong themselves on one or the other players directly involved playing.

That is exactly how betting in n.c. Is.bet on you against another person=legal. Me betting on player 1 to beat player 2=illegal. Must be betting on your own skill against someone elses skill.(i have a old aquantance who is a judge in nc and he gambles too) and he also told me it can get tricky when you are trying to play a ring game because once the gamble is no longer head to head(more than 2 players) it starts to be a grey area.
 

gregcantrall

Center Ball
Silver Member
It is a pool tournament. $10 entry, single game, single elimination. Winner takes all.
When this tournament is over we will play another.
That is what I told the poolhall lawyer when he told me, "You can get the house in a lot of trouble for gambling."
 

ChopStick

Unsane Poster
Silver Member
I worked in a pool room that was raided by the cops and the players were taken to jail. I am not aware of any pool hall where gambling is legal outside of Vegas or some casinos in other states. The reason is simple. If the state has a casino you can be sure that casino company lobbied the state to make gambling of any kind outside of their business is illegal. The other thing you can be sure of is that if the state cannot tag it and tax it, it is illegal.

In every state and every pool hall I have ever been in, you were not allowed to take out money on the floor unless a waitress was standing there and you were giving it to her. If money is seen changing hands between players, they were banned for life immediately. If a police officer saw it they were arrested and charged along with the pool hall. That is how it was all through the 70s, 80s and early 90s. I quit playing during the 90s so I don't know how it was then.

There may be some difference in attitude in some places now days but those laws are still on the books. The worst thing you can ever do is drop money on the table. That can get you arrested in all 50 states.
 

gregcantrall

Center Ball
Silver Member
I worked in a pool room that was raided by the cops and the players were taken to jail. I am not aware of any pool hall where gambling is legal outside of Vegas or some casinos in other states. The reason is simple. If the state has a casino you can be sure that casino company lobbied the state to make gambling of any kind outside of their business is illegal. The other thing you can be sure of is that if the state cannot tag it and tax it, it is illegal.

In every state and every pool hall I have ever been in, you were not allowed to take out money on the floor unless a waitress was standing there and you were giving it to her. If money is seen changing hands between players, they were banned for life immediately. If a police officer saw it they were arrested and charged along with the pool hall. That is how it was all through the 70s, 80s and early 90s. I quit playing during the 90s so I don't know how it was then.

There may be some difference in attitude in some places now days but those laws are still on the books. The worst thing you can ever do is drop money on the table. That can get you arrested in all 50 states.
You Sir are an ultracrepidarian.
 
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Maxx

AzB Platinum Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
You Sir are a ultracrepidarian.

Thanks for teaching me a new word! I think it is appropriate.

Here all the bars now have poker machines so the are really sensitive about getting in any trouble with the state. Tournaments are still okay.
 
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realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
I worked in a pool room that was raided by the cops and the players were taken to jail. I am not aware of any pool hall where gambling is legal outside of Vegas or some casinos in other states. The reason is simple. If the state has a casino you can be sure that casino company lobbied the state to make gambling of any kind outside of their business is illegal. The other thing you can be sure of is that if the state cannot tag it and tax it, it is illegal.

In every state and every pool hall I have ever been in, you were not allowed to take out money on the floor unless a waitress was standing there and you were giving it to her. If money is seen changing hands between players, they were banned for life immediately. If a police officer saw it they were arrested and charged along with the pool hall. That is how it was all through the 70s, 80s and early 90s. I quit playing during the 90s so I don't know how it was then.

There may be some difference in attitude in some places now days but those laws are still on the books. The worst thing you can ever do is drop money on the table. That can get you arrested in all 50 states.

You sir, have no idea what you're talking about....period! Gambling on approved games in casinos means gambling is allowed on those games exclusively in house. Those laws have noting to do with to players playing pool against each other in a game of skill....which can NOT be licensed as a "game of chance" which requires a licence and state or federal approval first. Side betting has ALWAYS been, and will ALWAYS be considered to be illegal. I've gambled and played through the 70' and 80's up until January 1990 when I quit playing pool to pursue my career as a pool table mechanic more seriously. WA has casinos, has had casinos....and the pool rooms I've played in has had the gaming commission inspectors doing walk threw inspections at the time I've been betting high....14.1 $1000+ a game, money on the light....WITH MY LAWYER HARRY PLATTIS! Side betting is the illegal part of pool, not the players at the table.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
It is a pool tournament. $10 entry, single game, single elimination. Winner takes all.
When this tournament is over we will play another.
That is what I told the poolhall lawyer when he told me, "You can get the house in a lot of trouble for gambling."
A friend of mine who really did put him self through school playing pool was arrested for gambling in a simple one-on-one game for money. The judge ruled that pool is a game of skill and not gambling.

As far as your poolhall lawyer goes, he may want to talk to the DA to find out what the law and case law is in your area. I think a large factor is whether the local police want to hassle the owner.

In Nevada, you better be very careful. The State wants control and revenue. The BCA was doing a raffle of a table at a Trade Show with the proceeds going to the Billiard Education Foundation, which is a 501c3 (tax exempt) charity. Nevada shut them down. All of the cue raffles at the tournaments there are probably really, really illegal.
 

StraightPoolIU

Brent
Silver Member
In Indiana pool is considered a game of skill in the statute so wagering between the participants on themselves is perfectly legal. Side betting is not, but with done with the proper discretion I've never seen anyone get hasseled at the Derby or elsewhere.

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realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
In Indiana pool is considered a game of skill in the statute so wagering between the participants on themselves is perfectly legal. Side betting is not, but with done with the proper discretion I've never seen anyone get hasseled at the Derby or elsewhere.

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The Derby has its problems with side bet gambling, but the pressure is on the tournament director and promoter....Diamond!
 

pwd72s

recreational banger
Silver Member
Another wrinkle is pool tournaments held in Casinos owned by Indian tribes. In essence, tribal lands are not controlled by state laws...such as smoking allowed despite the state having a smoking ban in public places. I know the Chinook Winds Western BCA tourneys have Calcuttas. Try that in an Oregon pool hall, and the cops could shut it down.
 

Ekojasiloop

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Uncle Sam and the corporations are always going to try and get their piece. You're supposed to claim gambling winnings, and more interesting perhaps for pool players, you can deduct losses I believe. I'm not sure if cash exchanging hands between two players is provable as a tax write off, but technically it can be from what I understand.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Uncle Sam and the corporations are always going to try and get their piece. You're supposed to claim gambling winnings, and more interesting perhaps for pool players, you can deduct losses I believe. I'm not sure if cash exchanging hands between two players is provable as a tax write off, but technically it can be from what I understand.

Yes, you can deduct your betting loses...but they can NOT exceed your winnings;)
 

Cory in DC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If Poker is a game of skill, then surely pool is? http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/22/nyregion/poker-is-more-a-game-of-skill-than-of-chance-a-judge-rules.html

My non-professional understanding is that betting on yourself in a game of skill is legal. Betting on yourself in a game of chance like coin flips or craps is not ok. Betting on others or having a house rake is also not ok.

Yet, I've been in many pool halls that really don't want two players to exchange cash, at least not visibly, and claim it's illegal. I'm not sure if they're misinformed (or maybe I am?) or whether they're concerned that liquor and business licensing entities would frown on gambling, even among players in a game of skill.
 

Avathar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Interesting point... I'm not sure about the regulations here in Germany, but I at least have never heard of anything like this...
Is it legal to bet on a football or hockey match in the US at all? What about Calcuttas?
 

ChopStick

Unsane Poster
Silver Member
You sir, have no idea what you're talking about....period! Gambling on approved games in casinos means gambling is allowed on those games exclusively in house. Those laws have noting to do with to players playing pool against each other in a game of skill....which can NOT be licensed as a "game of chance" which requires a licence and state or federal approval first. Side betting has ALWAYS been, and will ALWAYS be considered to be illegal. I've gambled and played through the 70' and 80's up until January 1990 when I quit playing pool to pursue my career as a pool table mechanic more seriously. WA has casinos, has had casinos....and the pool rooms I've played in has had the gaming commission inspectors doing walk threw inspections at the time I've been betting high....14.1 $1000+ a game, money on the light....WITH MY LAWYER HARRY PLATTIS! Side betting is the illegal part of pool, not the players at the table.

You sir have no idea what you are talking about. Even years ago the police raided the Johnson City tournament and took the whole lot to jail. They did it in Memphis, Atlanta and several other places. I might have expected to hear from the armchair experts.

Johnson City raid:
"The fed’s (IRS, with the support of the Illinois Bureau of Investigation & Illinois State Police) raided the tournament for gambling early in the morning of Oct 26th, after seeing “newspaper reports of large-scale gambling taking place at the tournament.” The raid derailed the schedule for finishing the tournament, which had to be extended into the following week. Afterwards, Paulie railed against the press for lack of tournament coverage and vowed never to hold another tournament in Illinois – marking the end of an era for the Jansco’s and Johnston City."

You want to know about Memphis, lookup Richard Austin and the Golden Cue. What I am talking is a matter of public record. It's not a secret.
 
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