Is high tech cue equipement fair to previous record holders

[sky..]

The only analogy any one can make is that of two marks men. One shots inside in a controlled environment and the other is shooting outside in 20 to 30 mile and hour wind gust.

Controlled environment? More like shooter A needs to compensate for a 13-20mph gust of wind compared to shooter B who needs to compensate for 20-30mph. Predator NEVER claimed to have ZERO deflection as you are implying above. They just say it ha LOWER deflection than standard shafts. How'd I come up with the number above? Check out platinum billiards. Predator deflects 1.17 inches compared to a schon's 1.71 inch. So a schon shaft deflects 50% more than a predator shaft. (Or you can say a predator shaft deflectss 33.5% less than a schon shaft)

That being said, there's still compensation involved. The important thing is the consistency. I don't care if shaftA deflects 0.5 to 1 inch and shaftB deflects exactly 2 inches. I'd stick with shaftB cause at least I know I'll get 2 inches everytime, and that's easier to compensate.

 

[Gerry]

I'm thinking in the other direction....if I had Mosconis cues...I WOULD have an asterisk next to my name!....what did he play with?.....Rambow, Balabushka, Paradise, Szamboti?.....I think HE had the advantage over us.

I tried my best to play with a Predator, but they just had no feel on delicate close position shots. I could see the alure of the cue to a newer player maybe, but I still don't think they are an advantage.

Maybe we are all cheating by using perfect sets of balls and not clay, super fast Simonis and not nappy cloth. I only think it's cheating if any one player can use something and the rest of us can't!

Gerry

 

[CueJunkiee]

i agree... i wish i had those cues too .... sigh.... :-(

and all the 'old wood' that was used in those cues... all those ohhh so many growth rings.... now that's low deflection imo.....

the tools help..... aramith, simonis, high tech phenolic tips etc..... but it's the players. and their skills and time at the sport, the energy and drive to be the best. That really drives the end result.......

 

[poolpro]

I'm thinking in the other direction....if I had Mosconis cues...I WOULD have an asterisk next to my name!....what did he play with?.....Rambow, Balabushka, Paradise, Szamboti?.....I think HE had the advantage over us.

I tried my best to play with a Predator, but they just had no feel on delicate close position shots. I could see the alure of the cue to a newer player maybe, but I still don't think they are an advantage.

Maybe we are all cheating by using perfect sets of balls and not clay, super fast Simonis and not nappy cloth. I only think it's cheating if any one player can use something and the rest of us can't!

Gerry

Hey, while I am sure that Mosconi has owned and played with many of the cues you listed, he was known to play with a Rambow. Rambow also made the cues for the movie the Hustler for Paul, Jackie and Willie.

I think I also want to know what shoes Mosconi was wearing when he made his high run. It sure would not be fair for me and Mosconi to match up now ( if it were possible) because I have air Jordans, and they did not have air jordans back then. So, Mosconi would clearly be outmatched, even before we started!!

Look I have said before I think these shafts are great, and can be a help, but these do not win your games for you! Marketing is still alive and well I see! Hey, try this next time you show up for a tournament: walk up to the tournament director, pull out your predator shaft and ask for your prize money. Tell him " clearly, I would get at least third place, after all, I HAVE A PREDATOR!!" If the director pays you, I will admit that I was 100% wrong here. I am waiting to be corrected..............

 

[poolpro]

Hey, I know what you are talking about. I have a predator, and although I liked it, it kind felt "soft" to me. Especiallly on the more delicate shots. I have recently switched to the ob1 shaft. The front end is solid wood, and feels great and still gives you good feel and control while still being a low deflection shaft. Just a thought.

 

[Gerry]

Hey, I know what you are talking about. I have a predator, and although I liked it, it kind felt "soft" to me. Especiallly on the more delicate shots. I have recently switched to the ob1 shaft. The front end is solid wood, and feels great and still gives you good feel and control while still being a low deflection shaft. Just a thought.

yea, good thoughts pro! I personally feel the playability/feel/hit of a cue is obviously a sum of the parts, and the hit I like is a vibration/frequency/energy transfer from tip to my hand. I think the Predator removes this energy transfer with the multiple pieces of wood. They are good for some things, but not enough for me to give up what I have grown to like about my cues<<<SS joint/ivory ferrules/10" taper/forward weight!

Gerry

 

[manwon]

I was reading the low deflection thread and it dawned on me is it fair to Williee Mosconi or any of the record holders that did not have these cheat sticks when it comes to the record books? Does the need exist to place and (*) next to those records acheived with predator cheat sticks or similar to denote the technological assistance they had in acheiving the records.

Kid
Dynomite

It is interesting that you have used Mosconi as example in this post. I think you may be on to something here. I suspect that all record attempts should be on 8ft tables with 5 1/8th inch corner pockets. I mean that is what Willie set his record on.

 

[StevenPWaldon]

See now we're getting onto an interesting side-topic. What if someone who matched up with Mosconi were wearing Pool Shoes!? Willie would have no chance. It would be embarrassing...!

I think I also want to know what shoes Mosconi was wearing when he made his high run. It sure would not be fair for me and Mosconi to match up now ( if it were possible) because I have air Jordans, and they did not have air jordans back then. So, Mosconi would clearly be outmatched, even before we started!!

 

[Sensation]

Allright!

Just please stop joking, saying: Everyone with a pred shaft isn't the best of the world, WE KNOW IT!

Player is maybe 99% and cue probably less than 1% (talking about decent equipement..)

The question is: Does the need exist to place and (*) next to those records acheived with predator cheat sticks or similar to denote the technological assistance they had in acheiving the records.


I think no. Since it makes a difference, but so small camparing to the extended knowledge we have to acquire to be succesful at 14.1 (and other pool games).

Let's see how the records evolve in the next years, decades.

 

[Rich93]

I was reading the low deflection thread and it dawned on me is it fair to Williee Mosconi or any of the record holders that did not have these cheat sticks when it comes to the record books? Does the need exist to place and (*) next to those records acheived with predator cheat sticks or similar to denote the technological assistance they had in acheiving the records.

Kid
Dynomite

Are you saying that Predator shafts are like steroids for a pool player? You might suggest that to the Predator company, they might like it. They might even have a big bicep inlaid on the Predator 3 (or are they beyond 3 already?)

As for me, I'm unjuiced.

 

[X Breaker]

I think it is worth noticing that cue ball control, and the ability to execute a wide spectrum of shots precisely, are, in my opinion, why the pros run out more balls/tables.

If a player cannot hit the cue ball precisely, he cannot control his cue ball well no matter what shaft he is using.

In my opinion, the pros are pros because they all have great touch in controlling their cue ball, and they use what they feel can optimize their chance of controlling that cue ball to do what they want the cue ball to do.

Richard

 

[TheBook]

One example (out of many in the sports world) of why the answer is that we don't need an asterisk after these new record holders names:

Lou Gehrig, Ty Cobb, etc. played and achieved unbelieveable batting statistics on ball fields that were as big as airports, against players with gloves no bigger than an overstuffed mitten, and some in an era where a base hit was awarded whereas today an error would have been charged.
No asterisks by their names! 'Nuff said.

Maniac

Plus they used the same ball for the whole game. Now the average ball lasts about 6 pitches There was also a period referred to the dead ball era that ended in 1919. In 1902 the Phillies only hit 4 HR's while the Pirates lead the National League with 19. Tommy Leach who played for the Pirates was the HR king that year with 6. All 8 National League teams collectively hit 98.
In 1906 the pennant winning White Soxs batted a sickly .228 and only hit 6 HR's the whole season. In 1908 they out did themselves and only hit 3 HR's the lowest mark ever for a team. One of the team's 3 leading HR hitters was a pitcher, Ed Walsh.

Pitchers could also use a spit ball. The pitchers mound could be as high as inches. A pitcher would usually pitch the whole game.

Originally in hockey you could only pass the puck backwards and the goal tender had to stay on his skates. He couldn't drop down like they do today.

Everything is relevant.

 

[Maniac]

A pitcher would usually pitch the whole game.

.....then there was Joe "Iron Man" McGinnity. In one month he pitched complete game victories in BOTH games of a double-header not once, but THREE times. IMO, today's pitchers aren't even a wart on this man's a$$.

Maniac

 

[PoolSponge]

There is a lot more to what today's players do to improve. Technology in the game is just a component. Many players now are going to the gym, working out, seeing professional coaches, mental coaches, etc....

Everyone now has the chance to videotape themselves and develop their stroke into perfection. These, IMHO, are more a factor than the cue they use. All the players in the days of Willie had to improve by feel much like the golfers in Jack and Arnie's days. Now we have Tiger Woods who is as much an athelete as there is. He has taken advantage of what is available today and with his natural talent and dedication become the best golfer in history. Would it be fun to see him and Bobby Jones play? Of course. But the game evolves so must we.

In the end nothing beats natural talent. I have a beautiful Predator cue with a Z2 shaft. Probably the lowest deflection of any shaft in the world. That doesn't help me overcome the number of mental mistakes I make in the game. What makes the best the best? The ability to make every ball or the ability of knowing which ball to take? Nothing overcomes the mind...not even the cue.

In my case though, I will take all the help I can get!