Is It Really The Pros That Are To Blame?

JimS said:
Show the gambling! Show the cash being exchanged! Show the woofing! Have the announcers explain shots by showing where to hit the cue ball to get it to spin a certain way! Talk it up! Have an edge to the voice so that it will create excitement. Build the suspense! Go back and forth from face to face and talk about how important it is to get the cb to a certain area and how it's done. Make a show out of it like poker has done. Mike what's his name and Vince Van Patten made poker go (imo) turn Billy and Grady loose and let the language loose (well... loosen it up anyway). Show the backers and the wad of cash... especially the cash.. big freakin wads of cash... tons of cash being passed to the winner of each game/set. Show piles of cash on the light. It doesn't even have to be real cash. Make a SHOW.

Don't make it a gentlemans game. Make it rough and tough and show the cash! Dress them in jeans and T shirts and backwards hats and use to bleeped out language and some nose to nose woofing. Screw the nice stuff. Nobody buys "nice".. they buy exciting stuff. They buy edge-gy... they buy scarey. Put some tush-hogs around the place. Show a buldge under the coat that might be a piece and talk about whether so and so is carrying. Talk about the gambling and how much is down on this shot. Bet on every shot!! Tons of cash being exchanged on tough shots. Exaggerate the nasty, the rough, the tough, the danger. Do a reality show about a hustler moving across the country making and losing the CASH! Exaggerate the danger!! Do a SHOW for pete's sake. Do anything but STOP trying to make pool seem legitimate and nice. It AIN'T either so capitolize on the illegitimate and exaggerate the nasty. That will get people to where they want to learn how to make the shots they see being made and make people want to make a score! Talk like Fatty did about the CASH. Talk about how so and so is only 20 years old and learned to be a great player by doing this and that and show how he makes shots and show him with the CASH and people will want to get a cue like his and a case like Fast Eddies, and they'll spend their CASH and they'll flock to the ph so they can learn how to make the SCORE. Have sexy girls all over the place. Some like Eva.. beautiful and classy, some not so classy. Have them hanging on the pros in the crowd. Produce a freakin show!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Make it up!! PRODUCE it.

CREATE heros and CREATE villans. Show a Landon being sharked by a mean ole EARL. Do a little story about their background and make them into personalities that people will know. All of you knew instantly who I meant when I said Landon and Earl.... make the world know!! Do it so people talk around the proverbial water cooler at work about how mean that mean ole Earl was to that nice kid. Then have Earl lose to the sweet kid. Or not! Have Earl shark and then beat the kid out of the CASH. Build it up. Talk about Keith at 15 with the CASH in his pocket asking a teacher to hold it for him. Have Keith and Buddy and Grady doing commercials about learning how to play and taking lessons. Show the kids learning and progressing.
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I forgot to mention; HELL NO it's not the player fault!! They play pool. Somebody with money and imagination has been needed to step up and put on a SHOW. :groucho:

Show people a pool of money to be won and a contest between a good guy and a bad guy, a nice guy and a heavy, show the body guards with buldges in the middle of their backs or a shotgun under the trench coat, show some woofin and some fantastic shootin.... and pool will be a hit. Gauran-dam-tee it.
 
Tom In Cincy said:
There is just too much competition for the HIGH Advertising dollars for pool to become successful in the USA.

Europe, Asia and the rest of the world only has Soccer and Snooker to compete with Pool.

The USA has all the major sports to compete for air time, ad dollars and prestige.

You have to admit, when the Yankees get a new 3 Billion dollar stadium, how does pool compete with that?

Pool can't even hold a $3,000,000 without horrendous consequences.
(IPT demise)

Pool cannot compete with Major league sports. No way, No how, nada.. At least not in its present form.

Pool has got to change..or it will only continue to be 'status quo'
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Um, Europe and Asia have many many many many more televised sports to compete with pool as well.

John - has lived 10 years in Germany and now 2 and half in China.
 
i haven't read all the replys so if i'm repeating something similar i apologize.

i think pool spends to much time trying to be something it isn't.they're always trying to convince ppl that they're athletes and that this is a sport.

i say let them see the otherside,a darkside.

let them have matches on tv were a group of pool players,a league if you will,where they're matching up up for real money.show them gambling,show the smack talkin,and the wolfin.
 
havoc said:
i haven't read all the replys so if i'm repeating something similar i apologize.

i think pool spends to much time trying to be something it isn't.they're always trying to convince ppl that they're athletes and that this is a sport.

i say let them see the otherside,a darkside.

let them have matches on tv were a group of pool players,a league if you will,where they're matching up up for real money.show them gambling,show the smack talkin,and the wolfin.
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Is the debate going in this direction again?

It is a sport and the players are athletes. The problem with showing the smack talk is that it only really comes about in certain situations in certain venues. The pros really don't go around talking smack to each other and most of them are pretty friendly with one another. So you end up with a situation where it's sort of contrived.

Now, I suppose that if pool WERE to consistently televised and players constantly surveiled then I am sure some smack would get caught on tape and some rivalries a'la Schmidt/Harriman would come out and that might make for good tv. But I doubt that you will find something like the players all talking crap to each other like the poker players do - unless someone comes in and films a documentary with hidden video on something like the DCC.

Least' that's how I see it from my time in the biz and in the pool room.
 
cuejoey said:
It was almost bankrupt and Dana White purchased it with the help of a friend/investor...It has exploded because of Dana's marketing genius techniques.:)
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Thee UFC was actually bought by Frank and Lorenzo Fertitta. (They own the Station Casino chain as well), and they hired their friend Dana White to run it. Dana was a boxersise instructor. Then he started managing fighters (Tito Ortiz and Chuck Liddell I think.) Although he seems to be a little bit childish, he's done some great things with the UFC.
 
I'm on the side of bringing out the gambling, and woofing, BUT.....lets leave the guns for the hunting shows! I don't want the next generation of players thinking its o.k. to come to the pool room packing. There's enough of that crap going on already IMO.
 
I wonder how many threads are started on AzDarts.com about this? "You see pool on tv everyday.... why not darts!!!!"

Anything can be put on tv. ANYTHING. Anything can be made interesting with the right creative direction.
 
poohkiller said:
I think that the best example to prove that the thinking you and many others have is wrong is golf. Golf is DEAD ON BORING on TV and imo watching it there as well.

Yet there are many who are watching it and it has a tremendous value for all the sponsor as far as I can tell.

As for the second paragraph you wrote, yet again, golf is a good example. Golf has a huge audience but in a few years old InsidePool Magazine I have read that there were already more 40 million pool players in the USA alone. Isn't that a big enough audience alone? And I have no clue how many golf players could there be but I doubt that there are 40 million - correct me if I am mistaken here.

The sponsors I remember from golf would be Nike, Adidas, car brands that were sponsoring tours, etc. A nike, adidas or lacoste t-shirt has absolutely nothing to do with how good you're playing golf, it won't help you any. Yet they are still paying big money for the good players to wear them. The point I am trying to make is that the same would go for pool and it would be nice seeing these mega brands sponsoring pool.

In my opinion the reason why so many people are watching golf while not playing is the money involved. Everything - and I mean everything - gets incredibly interesting when big money is involved. Take a look at tennis, golf, poker, etc.etc.

This is my opinion, I am not trying to offend you, but trying to make some points with all respect towards you and your opinion.
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I think the major difference between golf and pool is that amateur golfers take the sport seriously. I've only golfed a few times, still I don't know many people that will go out to a course without first putting in some hours at the driving range. It's quite embarrassing to have to go through 24 balls to make it through 18 holes, or to constantly be hitting out of the trees. Also on a course (well any course that isn't absolutely dead) you are expected to play at a certain speed (do you know how many out and out arguments I've gotten into over slow play - I personally think it's insulting to the other player, If I'm playing in my weekly straight pool league, I don't budget 4 f*cking hours for my match, it's 2 hours, and even that's running on the long side).

With pool, it's just a silly game to many people, sure 40+ million play it, but 30-35M of those couldn't care less if they make two balls in a row or not (or even if they can make one in consistently given a decent setup). I think this goes a long way to why pool is not a popular thing to watch, while some other "boring" sports are.

I think the above explanation goes a long way to why snooker is so much more popular and moneyed in the UK/Europe than pool is here. Any time a european player moves to the US and joins a league that I play in I notice this - playing snooker means you aren't going to miss many very easy shots - your pocketing ability has to be so much higher on those damned snooker tables. Especially the bar players - when you run into someone on vacation in a bar here who is from the UK, a "random bar player" typically will be able to make several balls in a row in, there's just a different level of basic skill.

And things like the National spelling bee, ESPN knows they'll get a certain amount of viewers from that, it's only 1x/year, and there's big newspaper coverage of it.

I agree with some of the other reasons too.
 
Interesting point with the different level of skill.
I'm in the upper half of the statistics in the lowest state leauge here in Germany - see my stats in my signature
Those were achieved on a matchday

What's the average ability of a US lowest league player (called D player or sth like that???)
We take Pool serious over here and play on the same equipment as the premier league players as many clubs have teams spread throughout the leagues and so you'll always have a better player around during weekday practice.
I have the feeling that bar league players meet each weekend and shoot some pool while having a suitcase of Bud Light? Never seen an 8ft table here in Germany - all locations that host league matches are 9ft completely
 
What percentage of the american public do you think can name the top 10 pool players in the USA? Of that same public how many can name the top 10 Golfers? In todays world I believe the reason the billiards industry is where it is because there is baggage attached, for example, a professional pool player applying for a mortage and listing their profession as a professional pool player is surly not the same as a pro golfer asking for the same loan. The difference is a professional pool player today is still associated with the baggage of the past "A Hustler"
I believe it will take a grass roots movement to change how we think about and play billiards to get rid of the things that have held it back. I would like to hear your comments!
 
well

D C 6 Pocket said:
What percentage of the american public do you think can name the top 10 pool players in the USA? Of that same public how many can name the top 10 Golfers? In todays world I believe the reason the billiards industry is where it is because there is baggage attached, for example, a professional pool player applying for a mortage and listing their profession as a professional pool player is surly not the same as a pro golfer asking for the same loan. The difference is a professional pool player today is still associated with the baggage of the past "A Hustler"
I believe it will take a grass roots movement to change how we think about and play billiards to get rid of the things that have held it back. I would like to hear your comments!
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do you think a pro poker player has any problems getting a mortgage?

poker came from the same surly origins and look how it's doing.
 
why does everyone always think that someone with alot of money should "step up" and start a tour.? why can't a group of these pro players "step up" and go out and try to get sponsors to start a tour. who else would be better to sell a prospective investor than say johnny archer himself? (just throwing his name out). thats the problem, all the players want to just sit back and hope a magical tour comes along....when they should go out and build it themselves.
 
Yes, there are other televised sports other than soccer or snooker.

But, you also have to admit, the Mulit BILLION dollar industry of the NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, PGA and Nascar in the USA is a tough nut to crack into.

What do the European and Asian countries have that comparable to the above sports revenues?

Pool is an easier TV sell in Europe and Asia than in the USA. IMO

JB Cases said:
Um, Europe and Asia have many many many many more televised sports to compete with pool as well.

John - has lived 10 years in Germany and now 2 and half in China.
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