Is It The Indian, Or The Arrow?

Baxter

Baxter

Out To Win
Silver Member
I've always been a believer that it's the Indian and not the arrow. But right now I definitely have to say that the arrow has a bigger role to play than I ever thought.

I've taken part in TATE's demo program for the Tiger X Pro shaft, and after two days with it I can't believe how much of a difference it is. The first day (yesterday) I spent doing nothing but getting a feel for it. I would toss balls out on the table and hit them, nothing more nothing less. I noticed a difference then. Much more consistent than the shaft I play with.

Today I started racking balls and playing The Ghost. Now, I consider myself to be a consistently solid player. Nowhere near Pro, but a solid B. I can run a 9 ball rack with BIH right around half the time. I can break and run one maybe 1 out of 10. I've never broke and ran a 10 ball rack.

Tonight, I broke and ran 2 10 ball racks. I broke and ran a much higher number of 9 ball racks that what I'm used to as well. 8 ball (which I play more than anything), I wasn't anything to mess with. And I definitely had my stroke with me, but I didn't feel like I was "in stroke", if that makes any sense.

This shaft definitely provided more consistency than what I'm used to. It did everything that I wanted it to do, to a tee. I found myself making adjustments for the shaft in a way that I've never had to do before. I was adjusting for the accuracy of the shaft. I've never been able to be so precise with everything before, not just the shot but the shape as well.

This whole experience has definitely left me with a renewed sense of confidence in my game. It's made me realize that it's not necessarily me screwing up my shots/runs, that sometimes it's my equipment not doing what I'm expecting it to do. This shaft I've been "demo-ing" does what I expect it to do. The outcome of the shot is what I'm expecting.

I've never experienced anything like this ever before. It's like an awakening in a sense. I'm completely amazed.
 
I must ask and I appologize if you stated in your post and I missed it. What kind of cue/shaft combo are do you usually play with? Glad you had good experiences with the new shaft.
 
And I'm not trying to write a review of this shaft or push the equipment in any way, which after re-reading I realized this might sound as such.

I'm just sitting here reflecting on my practice session in a state of awe, and thought I'd share this first-time billiard reflection with all of you.
 
dr9ball said:
I must ask and I appologize if you stated in your post and I missed it. What kind of cue/shaft combo are do you usually play with? Glad you had good experiences with the new shaft.
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I play with a Players, stock shaft, custom turned to 11.5 with a Pro taper. I've been playing with my beginners stick for longer than I should be, but I'm a broke college kid with no money to upgrade (*fingers crossed* come on AZ raffles, get me something lol). Like I said, I always thought of it as the Indian without regard to the Arrow. I've realized now that I am definitely mistaken.

Tiger X Pro 5/16 x 18 is #1 on my Christmas List. I hear Santa plays 1 pocket, maybe I have a chance lol.
 
Baxter said:
I play with a Players, stock shaft, custom turned to 11.5 with a Pro taper. I've been playing with my beginners stick for longer than I should be, but I'm a broke college kid with no money to upgrade (*fingers crossed* come on AZ raffles, get me something lol). Like I said, I always thought of it as the Indian without regard to the Arrow. I've realized now that I am definitely mistaken.

Tiger X Pro 5/16 x 18 is #1 on my Christmas List. I hear Santa plays 1 pocket, maybe I have a chance lol.
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It's defintely the Indian, but...I'm adapting to the Pro X myself now. If nothing else, I'm playing more so I'm playing better. Sometimes a change in equipment presents enough of a challenge to ignite that spark, and make us play more, pay a little more attention, and really get ourselves in stroke.

The smaller tip seems to be working with my game too. Baxter, I am very happy you got on the test program. We'll get you the best deal on this shaft when you're ready - with pleasure. Don't worry, Baxter, I'll keep you in mind. By the way, I'm very happy you participated in the program.

Chris
 
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TATE said:
It's defintely the Indian, but...I'm adapting to the Pro X myself now. If nothing else, I'm playing more so I'm playing better. Sometimes a change in equipment presents enough of a challenge to ignite that spark, and make us play more, pay a little more attention, and greally et in dead stroke.

The smaller tip seems to be working with my game too. Baxter, I am very happy you got on the test program. We'll get you the best deal on this shaft when you're ready - with pleasure. Don't worry, Baxter, I'll keep you in mind.

Chris
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Oh man I don't even want to give this back LOL!

I know it's not entirely the shaft that made me play better tonight, but honestly the sense of confidence that it gave me after a few racks most definitely played a part. I trusted it, and it did what I wanted it to do. I know my current shaft is inconsistent, just by playing with it. I don't entirely trust it, and that makes a world of difference.

Like I said Chris, this thing is number 1, numero uno, on my Christmas list. I already told my parents about it, and told them to collaborate with my Grandparents and buy it for me. No joke. Let me know pricing info when you can so I can forward it to them.
 
Also, I'm not trying to say that Joe Banger can pick up Schon and play like a pro. When all is said and done, the player has to know how to handle the equipment. But, it makes a big difference when the equipment fits the player.

I should already know this from my years in competitive golf. A set of clubs custom fit to a player can easily drop 5-10 strokes off their round. A pro can pick up any set of clubs and break 80, much like Efren pulling a house cue off a wall and winning a tournament. But if you give that same pro a custom built set, and they'll break 70.

I don't know why I didn't realize before that the same thing applies to pool.
 
I feel you.. Every time I get a new equipment, I play better for a few days. I think new equipment gives you a new sense of confidence that tend to up your game.

Unless your cue was not hitting straight, or something's wrong with the tip, I really don't think a new equipment can bring you such a drastic immediate improvement physically. There was a study on how students who dressed up nicely perform better on their SATs, so maybe this has something to do with that research. Dressing up nicely, new and improved cue, and better table conditions, in my opinions, can cause someone to play better in the short term.

However, you running a 2 pack for 10 ball shows that you have the ability to run racks, so while you are playing well, remember what it feels like, so when you are not playing so well, you can glance back and try to find that touch back. I think many intermediate players like us definitely have the ability to play a lot better, but for me, sometimes I just lose focus and play sloppy.
 
vincentwu817 said:
I think many intermediate players like us definitely have the ability to play a lot better, but for me, sometimes I just lose focus and play sloppy.
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One of my biggest problems. I'm used to playing the same people over and over, many of whom don't present much challenge. Yet, I lose to them more often than I should, because I seem to lose focus and not care as much. I already know I'm better than them so I feel like I have nothing to prove to myself.

But when a good player comes along, someone clearly better than me, I seem to play "lights out". I like the challenge, and I feel like I have something to prove to myself by beating them. I focus more, bear down on my shots and my pre-shot routine (another thing that gets lost more than it should), and win games. When something is on the line, whether it be pride, ego, or money, I play better and I come through when a lot of people think I can't.
 
vincentwu817 said:
Unless your cue was not hitting straight, or something's wrong with the tip, I really don't think a new equipment can bring you such a drastic immediate improvement physically.
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I think it has something to do with the diameter and flex of the shaft. I felt great with it when I first got it, a while ago. I was also still ingraining my stroke fundamentals then, and tended to finesse a lot of shots stroking extremely smoothly and softly. I'd slow roll everything.

Now I've added much more power to my stroke, and after learning the basics of position and my common position routes, I'm more confident in letting my stroke out and playing back-and-forth or multiple rail shape instead of slow rolling everything. I think with the added power my shaft breaks down and does unexpected things. I can't power draw that shaft, it just won't do it. It turns into a stop shot, often with the ob squirting left. I always thought it was just me. With this shaft I've been trying, it's a cakewalk. The same stroke puts the ob center pocket and draws a table and a half. I was shocked.
 
1. How do you get on a test program haha....
2. What other shafts have you played with... just the one custom shaft?
 
Baxter, maybe I will have to try some tiger shafts lol. You are right about playing the same people over and over again. You have nothing to prove, and you really don't care if you win or lose, because you know your opponent already knows what your level is at. I'm pretty much like you, I usually perform very well when I play better players (not TOO good though). I pay a lot more attention to the details and take my time. Some pressure and nervousness does wonders for the game.

I am glad you had good results with that shaft, now its time to save up for one! I recently upgraded from a higher end J&J type of brand cue for about 200 bucks, to a Pechauer. Although its shaft didn't offer some sort of LD technology or whatsoever, but a newer and better made cue definitely made my game better and made me more motivated to practice.
 
Baxter said:
I think it has something to do with the diameter and flex of the shaft. I felt great with it when I first got it, a while ago. I was also still ingraining my stroke fundamentals then, and tended to finesse a lot of shots stroking extremely smoothly and softly. I'd slow roll everything.

Now I've added much more power to my stroke, and after learning the basics of position and my common position routes, I'm more confident in letting my stroke out and playing back-and-forth or multiple rail shape instead of slow rolling everything. I think with the added power my shaft breaks down and does unexpected things. I can't power draw that shaft, it just won't do it. It turns into a stop shot, often with the ob squirting left. I always thought it was just me. With this shaft I've been trying, it's a cakewalk. The same stroke puts the ob center pocket and draws a table and a half. I was shocked.
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Power draw can be done with any cue you just have to be very accurate, the reason you can do it so easy with the tiger pro is because it's a LD shaft. You may be putting a bit of left or right on the cue ball when trying to power draw with your players cue, but with the LD shaft the cue ball stays on target and draws back without you noticing you may have hit bottom left or bottom right.
 
someone told me to ruin the one I had . . .

Baxter said:
I play with a Players, stock shaft, custom turned to 11.5 with a Pro taper.
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And here is the source of your original problem. You took a new , 'green' (wood not seasoned) shaft , reduced the diameter , and took away the taper , creating a "whippy" shaft . Yes , shafts can be , and are made to those specs - but top cue makers let their shaft blanks season for years - somehow , I doubt Players does .
Baxter said:
I know my current shaft is inconsistent, just by playing with it. I don't entirely trust it, and that makes a world of difference.
I already told my parents about it, and told them to collaborate with my Grandparents and buy it for me.
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at least you're at a point where you recognize it's faults
vincentwu817 said:
Unless your cue was not hitting straight, or something's wrong with the tip, I really don't think a new equipment can bring you such a drastic immediate improvement physically.
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That's the whole point of the LD shafts . If you are playing in such a manner (power w/english) with a whippy shaft , the cue is , in your words , "not hitting straight"
Baxter said:
I think it has something to do with the diameter and flex of the shaft. I felt great with it when I first got it. I tended to finesse a lot of shots stroking extremely smoothly and softly. I'd slow roll everything.

Now I've added much more power to my stroke, and after learning the basics of position and my common position routes, I'm more confident in letting my stroke out and playing back-and-forth or multiple rail shape instead of slow rolling everything. I think with the added power my shaft breaks down and does unexpected things.
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" I think with the added power , my shaft breaks down and does unexpected things" In layman's terms , you have just defined deflection .And yes , the increased aggressiveness of your game heightened the problem.


As a final note , I don't know how they do things in California , but in the South , we ASK for Christmas presents. We ask especially nicely if they're so dang expensive that groups have to chip in . And we send 'thank you' cards if we receive them . . .:smile:
 
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Get ready, more bad news gang. A player like Shane or perhaps Dennis Orcullo could walk into any poolroom anywhere and find a decent house cue and beat the heck out of anyone present, or anyone they could find as well. And that's the name of that tune. The Indian wins here, EVERY TIME!

Sure, a good cue helps, mainly because you know what you have in your hands every time you pick it up. There is no period of adjustment necessary. As for the differences in shafts, cue components etc. I think it is just a matter of personal preference. Personally I prefer to play with the shaft that the cue maker made for the cue. But that's just me.
 
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