Is it wrong to use Ivory in cues??

[Hail Mary Shot]

African elephants unlike asian elephants see you and will charge and kill you instantly, approaching them is dangerous business, i have hunted for 30 days straight and not seen a shootable bull but approached many heards in thick bush, there is alot of skill involved, were not sitting in a pick-up shooting milk cows which are harmless, you cant out run a charging elephant they will do a mock charge once in a while but when they come there is no stopping them, i'm not giving elephant hunting lessions but its dangerous and not for the faint of heart, now the asian elephants are wonderful nice animals i love them, they also have very little ivory. I have been charged 2 time in 6 months in the bush both time by cow elephants, we shot them and trust me its an adreneline rush, getgoose bumps just typing this.

Elephant hunting is like playing nine ball for $5000/rack impala hunting is like playing for the table time. to put perspective on it.

All the meat is eaten by the indeginous people from many different tribes, they get veery happy when an elephant is hunted, they lose family members every year to elephants, they dont have cars and walk on trails if you accidently walk up on an elephant ,,,game over they just kill you its rare for an elephant in africa to run unless its a young bull they are harmless and will run, in agrica we refer to them as "Jumos" or young bulls. the fat inside their gastronal tract is rendered down in to cooking oil, and some of the entrails are eaten as well, they "rack" the meat, it basically cures it so they can store it because they have no refrigators. The trophy fee pays the game scouts who work for the Govt to create anti-poaching groups. These conservation effortshave ben very successful for the past 30 years.

Look and see how much a elephant skin cue case costs, $1,000 thats because thehunter spent $50,000 for a 21 day hunt, and thats why ivory is so expensive, in africa the locals want the meat(nyma) and we here want the skin and ivory, all this leads to the demand to shoot elephants. Is it wrong that these skinny people eat what was shot or are we the bad guys because we like ivory ferrals?

trust me they control the cgame counts so carefully because they need the $$ and shooting out any species would kill the industry. We only shoot old animals, not reproductive animals so that way the gene pool isnt affected.

My couzin and I used to hunt before, not big game however. the most funniest and frightening experience for the both of us is when we were about to shoot some wild geese when suddenly a snake went exactly inside our makeshift hide. It scared the shit out of our ass and scared the geese away as we jumped out of our cover.

Now, Regarding the African Elephants, I knew a colleague of mine who used to hunt big game and he told me that his encounter with these things are really some scary shit. I asked him what it was like and he just simply told me....It's like trying to stop an out of control freight train or an 18 Wheeler charging right at ya !

About the Asian Elephants, they are definitely nice and fun to watch. I have seen an elephant where it played a person's privates with it's foot ( In human anatomy, it's what we consider as our hand).

 

[sky..]

A cue with out ivory is like plastic toilet paper, it just dosent work.

There're lots of cues without ivory. So they don't work?

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

There're lots of cues without ivory. So they don't work?

Mine is made out of Ebony !!!

 

[yally]

Ok...enough with the hunting posts. Are there any cuebuilders that have struggled with this issue at all or is simply another material to use when building cues?

 

[pdcue]

I, my friend, can assure you that in my 57 years here on this planet, I have broken the law thousands of times. Smuggling Ivory is the least of my crimes. I have never been convicted of a felony or misdemenor drug crime. I spent my first 30 days in jail at 14. The rest of that year I spent in a reform school. I am delighted that I was a yout. Cause I could have been in some deep chit. I believe the maxium I could have recieved in my life was 40 years. I have never robbed, raped or killed anybody. You figure it out, and if you ever want to know how to get sumptin thru customs, give me a shout.
Purdman
PS: I checked throughly!!!

Did you find that it is not permitted to import or
export ivory?

Dale

 

[Fatboy]

There're lots of cues without ivory. So they don't work?

it was just a joke, most cues dont have ivory and play better than i do. however i do like ivory ferrels.

 

[Deadon]

i go elephant hunting every year, they have been doing game counts for around 100 years and your 100% correct there are more elephants than ever, when they are shot in the head they feel nothing and drop, i have personally shot 14 elephants, there is a Govt official with us at all times it is strictly regulated, it is legai in Zimbabwe to use lethal force on elephant poachers. atll the meat is fed to the people there no protein goes to waste in africa.

ivory in cues is fine as lonfg at it has the CITIES paperwork to prove it was a sport hunted elephant.

Hey eric;

Send a little of that ivory my way, buddy........

Mike

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

Though Ivory may look nice as part of a cue, I still prefer all wood cue! gives my the natural feel of being one with mother nature ! LOL

 

[Deadon]

I can't believe all the self rightousness I'm reading. If something is legal, it should fine to use it. Period. Cues are made from parts of various animals and reptiles. While you can have the plain jane with the phenolic tip, but I want a Searing with the lizard wrap, ivory joint, some inlays and an ivory butt cap. And especially ivory ferrules. If that offends anyone, they are in the wrong sport.

 

[Deadon]

Though Ivory may look nice as part of a cue, I still prefer all wood cue! gives my the natural feel of being one with mother nature ! LOL

And Hail Mary, what would you use for a tip................................

 

[Tokyo-dave]

I guess that means that leather tips, leather wraps, and prime rib is out of the question?
There's nothing I despise more than a poacher. I've been shot at, and have shot back at poachers, and personally apprehended and/or have been involved with the arrest of several.
I'm totally oblivious to the actual numbers of elephants in existence, so weather or not their numbers are threatened or in abundance depending on regions is something that I honestly don't know. If their numbers are indeed low enough to need protection, then yes, they should be protected. And if in some areas, their numbers are abundant and in need of control, then we need to control. But to condemn the use of ivory simply because the way in which it is (has been) harvested is cruel????
THERE IS NO HUMANE WAY TO KILL. Be it cattle, fish, reptiles or whatever. When they are 'harvested' for their by products, they are being killed all the same. And it's all terribly cruel. So if somebody wants to point a finger at a guy with ivory in his cue for the reason (excluding poaching) that elephants are killed in a cruel way...................that guy had better have a cue with Irish linen and be playing with a phenolic tip. And if I catch him at McDonalds, I'll shove that Big Mac up his @ss! We, as the human race have the right and the responsibility to depend upon mother nature for her many many by products. Most of which come from living animals and plants/trees. And yes, some of those products are harvested in cruel and distasteful ways. But it's a fact of life. We must remember that it is also our responsibility to control and to protect nature, while at the same time, using natures assets with taste.
If it was taken legally, then I have no problem with the use of ivory. I also wear leather boots, use leather tips, have a leather wrap, and enjoy a great steak every once in a while. And it may be an unfortunate fact of life, that for every one of these luxuries at my disposal, some animal had to die a cruel death. But none more cruel than the next. All equally cruel.
dave

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

And Hail Mary, what would you use for a tip................................

a tip made out of rubber tree !!!

 

[Purdman]

Did you find that it is not permitted to import or
export ivory?

Dale

I didn't bring any Ivory into the US from Canada after 1976. I have legally brought Ivory from Canada in 1972 or 1973. I lost my records.
I would like to ask you a question. If you purchased Ivory from someone that was not legal, without your knowledge, are you guilty of a crime?
The "proper paper work" does not apply. Forgery is no secrete.
I must also inform you that all man made laws are not moral nor correct. The laws against smuggling Ivory should be against those who do it for a profit, those who support the poaching of elephants, not a guy like you and me who like an ounce to adorn a pool cue. They do cul the herds and they do use the Ivory or sell it.
In answer to your question, I don't ask anybody permission to do anything unless it is going to impact them personally. That probably allows me to do a lot of things that you wouldn't and I am having a great time doing them.
Purdman

 

[Rasta]

If something is legal, it should fine to use it.

Sometimes when something is not legal it should still be fine to use it.



Good Rolls,
Rasta

 

[Jack Madden]

I have been curious about why more exotic materials aren't used in cues. Knifemakers use a lot of ivory substitutes in their knives, like mammoth ivory and oosik (fossilized penile bone from seals and a couple other animals). Maybe they do? I'm not into high end custom cues, but I've never heard of using these things.

I have used oosik as an inlay material in a couple cues ---- they weren't high end. Under $1,000 if I built them again. Interesting conversation with buyers, how to explain to their wives what oosik is

I also use Alaskan moose antler.

 

[poolpro]

This is a bit ridiculous! Look at the poll answers! Most people would prefer a cue with ivory, as it adds to the desireabilty and value of a cue. If nobody wanted a deireable cue, or something special, we would all be playing with cues costing $200 or less! I love ivory, I think it adds class, value and beauty to a cue. The same way gold and precious stones do. A cue has more organic parts than not. Mostly wood, leather tip, etc. The only parts on a cue that were not alive are the pins and bumpers and screws, depending on the cue.

Trees are living things, and the most desireable kinds of woods are the scarcest species. All of you people complaining about ivory better be using graphite cues! I do not ever want to hear you bragging about such a beautiful piece of cocbolo ever again! Oh, and I am sure that all of the meat that you buy or have at McDonalds was humanely killed, right? Oh all those cows just had enough and comitted suicide! And none of you own any leather jackets. Nobody is complaining that a leather cue case costs more than a vinyl one, how many of you use leather cue tios (oh, maybe 99%). Stop and really think about all the things as humans that we consume that we really do not have to, but that you personally would not do without. The movie "blood diamond" is out about the diamond market and how people die so others can make money on it. How many of you gave or received diamond jewlery on valentines day? Stop whining! If you disagree with ivory do not buy it!

We are consumers, and we consume resources. Don't pick and choose. AS long as there is a market for it, it will continue. You really speak with your wallet. If nobody bought it, nobody would go out of their way to get it. Judging by the results of this poll, the ivory market will be around for many more years.

Also, this issue was raised as a moral question, not a legal question! I do not see what the law has to do with it. So if an elephant was killed 50 years ago , it is acceptable, but if it was killed yesterday, that is murder! Give me a break! So, if the law changed back tomorrow, all of you would be fine with it again? If you think killing elephants for their ivory is wrong, then it was wrong 50 years ago too.

I love eating meat, and have no illusions about where it comes from. I love driving my car, and I know where the gas comes from. I love ivory and precious materials in cues, in jewelry, etc. The indians, egyptians, and all of early people have used and appreciated animal items for tools, clothing, food, and even decorations and jewelry since the beginning.

All I am saying is that when you point the finger, you better be prepared for your lifestyle to be under scrutiny also. In a make believe world, it would be great if nothing ever had to die for any reason, and we could all be the best of friends and nobody would ever be sad, and puppies would live forever, etc. In the real world, it is a little bit different. Living in the real world has it's costs and consequences, that's why I have to get up and go to work everyday and still don't have everything my heart desires ( materialistic and otherwise).

 

[Rich R.]

I haven't read this entire thread, so please exuse me if I repeat what others have said.

Countries that have elephants are being hurt by the worldwide ban on ivory. At certain times, they have controled kills, to control elephant population. Elephants also die of natural causes. As a result, these counties end up with a substantial amount of ivory and currently, they can't legally sell much of it. This is a finacial burden on these countries.

The sale of legally obtained ivory would benefit these countries and it would provide vital income to protect the elephants in the wild.

I definitely don't condone the illegal ivory trade from poachers, but the sale of legally obtained ivory should be permitted.

 

[Peer]

Seymore15074 wrote:
> This makes me laugh...there was a thread a while back of someone
> asking about which cuemakers would not use ivory, so they could get
> a cue made...snickering to myself, all I can think is what's next?

Cuebacca replied:
> Har har, snicker it up pal. LOL. Yeah that was me, thanks.
> Since you didn't read the thread carefully, most thought it was at
> least a legitimate question, and I said I was asking mostly out
> of curiosity. I did confess that I MIGHT use that information when
> looking to buy a cue later. Never said that the answer was needed
> before I could get a cue made.


Well, before ordering my cue, I was in contact with Pierluigi Longoni about this issue, and he replied: "I don't like to kill animals even if they say it's coming from sick animals.." So yes, I got my beautiful ivoryless Longoni and it plays wonderful -- and it also feels good that the cuemaker is on the right side of this issue.

-- peer

 

[supergreenman]

Well, before ordering my cue, I was in contact with Pierluigi Longoni about this issue, and he replied: "I don't like to kill animals even if they say it's coming from sick animals.." So yes, I got my beautiful ivoryless Longoni and it plays wonderful -- and it also feels good that the cuemaker is on the right side of this issue.

-- peer

It's always nice to see someone who puts his money where his morals are.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

Seymore15074 wrote:
> This makes me laugh...there was a thread a while back of someone
> asking about which cuemakers would not use ivory, so they could get
> a cue made...snickering to myself, all I can think is what's next?

Cuebacca replied:
> Har har, snicker it up pal. LOL. Yeah that was me, thanks.
> Since you didn't read the thread carefully, most thought it was at
> least a legitimate question, and I said I was asking mostly out
> of curiosity. I did confess that I MIGHT use that information when
> looking to buy a cue later. Never said that the answer was needed
> before I could get a cue made.


Well, before ordering my cue, I was in contact with Pierluigi Longoni about this issue, and he replied: "I don't like to kill animals even if they say it's coming from sick animals.." So yes, I got my beautiful ivoryless Longoni and it plays wonderful -- and it also feels good that the cuemaker is on the right side of this issue.

-- peer

I guess it is moral for some people not to kill animals rather than cutting helpless trees ! that's right, just ignore the trees, that makes you morally correct !!!