Is it wrong to use Ivory in cues??

Is it wrong to use Ivory in cues?

  • Yes

    Votes: 39 22.4%

  • No

    Votes: 135 77.6%
  • Total voters
    174
seymore15074 said:
This makes me laugh...there was a thread a while back of someone asking about which cuemakers would not use ivory, so they could get a cue made...snickering to myself, all I can think is what's next? A vegetarian that wants to find a cuemaker that doesn't eat meat to make their cue?! :rolleyes:
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Or a puritan that wants to find a cuemaker that doesn't beat meat to make their cue! :rolleyes:
Purdman:D
 
crosseyedjoe said:
Most ivory supplies in the US come from walrus.

Legally traded ivory from Africa come from rhinos. Forest rangers usually cut their horns to discourage poaching.
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Rhino's don't have Ivory, Their horns are made of many layers of a material that almost exactly like a human fingernail

Jake
 
crosseyedjoe said:
Most ivory supplies in the US come from walrus and narwhal. Eskimos are still allowed to kill some of these animals for their provisions. They are the only group of people who are allowed to hunt those animals. This doesn't prevent local poachers from doing the same.

Legally traded ivory from Africa come from rhinos. Forest rangers usually cut their horns to discourage poaching. Also from elephants where the ban is lifted, like Zimbabwe and Namibia.

Regardless of the source, some poachers are trading illegal ivory together with their legal stockpile.

You can always ask your favorite cue maker to at least ask for legal trade certification from their ivory supplier.
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You are right about Eskimos being the only ones allowed to hunt Walrus,BUT the law says that the harvested Ivory, can ONLY be used in the State that it came from. Therefore you can ONLY use Walrus Ivory, IN THE STATE OF ALASKA. When I buy Ivory I get a legal document, that states when the Elephant was killed & from what country...JER
 
Hail Mary Shot said:
what does it got to do with Ivory Use? Genius ! :p
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Just because you're doing something that doesn't bother "your" conscience doesn't make it right.

Your government and governments around the world didn't make laws and sign treaties banning the trade in ivory just to inconvienience a few pool players.

I thought my question was pretty clear.

Hail Mary Shot said:
Originally Posted by Hail Mary Shot
As long as your conscience doesn't bother you, it isn't wrong !
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Using this line of thinking you could justify just about anything.
 
Purdman said:
The last cue I imported, I purchased pre ban Ivory and sent it to the cuebuilder to be used in my cue. There is a great deal of pre ban Ivory in the US. There is no need to support the poachers in my opinion. I also believe killing anything (unless for survival) is morally wrong.
I use to be a deer hunter. The last time I went out, I found several carcuses with just the head missing. I refuse to be associated with the scumbags who do this sort of thing.
Purdman:cool:
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IMHO - if you check thoroughly, you will find you broke the law twice.
at least.

Dale
 
supergreenman said:
Just because you're doing something that doesn't bother "your" conscience doesn't make it right.

Your government and governments around the world didn't make laws and sign treaties banning the trade in ivory just to inconvienience a few pool players.
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Yes, but at the same time just because it has been made into law doesn't make it right (or wrong) either.
 
Fatboy said:
i go elephant hunting every year, they have been doing game counts for around 100 years and your 100% correct there are more elephants than ever, when they are shot in the head they feel nothing and drop, i have personally shot 14 elephants, there is a Govt official with us at all times it is strictly regulated, it is legai in Zimbabwe to use lethal force on elephant poachers. atll the meat is fed to the people there no protein goes to waste in africa.

ivory in cues is fine as lonfg at it has the CITIES paperwork to prove it was a sport hunted elephant.
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I'm not going to condemn you for going hunting, but I wouldn't characterize it as a sport to shoot an animal the size of an elephant that is just standing there looking at you any more than offing cows in a meat packing plant is sport.

If you were going after it with your bare hands, that would be sport. I'd like to see some video of that. Shooting the big old thing doesn't seem like much of a challenge unless you are blind.
 
I may be wrong but I understand the fees for "harvesting" an elephant are HUGE and go towards the management of elephant herds and the area natives. In some cases it's the difference between starving and surviving.
Aren't herds culled, ie only the old and infirm elephants are killed?

What about natural deaths? Shouldn't the ivory be put to use for the benefit of elephants and local populations?

Just thinkin out loud here, I'm undecided.
 
seymore15074 said:
This makes me laugh...there was a thread a while back of someone asking about which cuemakers would not use ivory, so they could get a cue made...snickering to myself, all I can think is what's next? A vegetarian that wants to find a cuemaker that doesn't eat meat to make their cue?! :rolleyes:
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Kosher cues sound good. ;)
 
What intrigues me so far is that the majority of the replies to the post are against the use of Elephant Ivory, however the votes are largely in favour. :confused:

I know it is quite easy to take moral highroad and say it's wrong. However, I would also be interested in seeing more posts supporting the NO vote and why....
 
No, it's not wrong to use Ivory in a cue but that is a personal decision that each person has to make for themselves.

There are many species that are threatened by mankind from whales to grizzlies and it is up to mankind to manage those species in a way that allows the different species to continue to survive. The real reason for the danger to most of these species is the acclerating population of the dominant species of the earth.
JoeyA
 
supergreenman said:
Just because you're doing something that doesn't bother "your" conscience doesn't make it right.

Your government and governments around the world didn't make laws and sign treaties banning the trade in ivory just to inconvienience a few pool players.

I thought my question was pretty clear.



Using this line of thinking you could justify just about anything.
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I see. so you are saying that liars and thieves have a conscience? is that your argument? clearly you have missed the point here. Regardless of the laws that had been passed, and the so-called teachings that you have shown to your children, you cannot force them to become vegetarians. though being a vegetarian isn't right also (in retrospect). I didn't say that I did nothing to teach them what is right or wrong, I'm saying that the decision is theirs, basing upon their conscience whether they solicit the use of Ivory or not and regardless of the circumstances in which the Ivory was made (whether from good or bad). I hope that you comprehend already or do I need to explain further? :D
 
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Oh and By the way, soliciting the use of cars and any other vehicle that uses gasoline can contribute to global warming! So I guess it doesn't bother your conscience at all or better start walking your way to work then ! :D
 
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pdcue said:
IMHO - if you check thoroughly, you will find you broke the law twice.
at least.

Dale
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I, my friend, can assure you that in my 57 years here on this planet, I have broken the law thousands of times. Smuggling Ivory is the least of my crimes. I have never been convicted of a felony or misdemenor drug crime. I spent my first 30 days in jail at 14. The rest of that year I spent in a reform school. I am delighted that I was a yout. Cause I could have been in some deep chit. I believe the maxium I could have recieved in my life was 40 years. I have never robbed, raped or killed anybody. You figure it out, and if you ever want to know how to get sumptin thru customs, give me a shout.:D
Purdman
PS: I checked throughly!!! ;)
 
its cool with me if you dont like hunting, i'm not going to go off topic here but for 2 sentances. Its heavly regulated by the Govts of the countrys where it legal to protect the game from poachers the fee to shoot a bull elephant os $10,000 that goes to the govt for wildlife protection, poachers ivory 90% goes to China or is conficated by the govt and sold to china. Hunting is southern Africas(Zimbabwe, botswana, Tanz, Etc.) largest source of $$$(exclucing south africa the country) They formed the hunting industry to generate $$$ to create self funded game parks, reserves and specific hunting areas that are used to harvest just enough game that the overall populations can grow and not get poached out, i have spent alot of time in Africa I know what I'm talking about


I wouldnt ever shoot any endangered animal period, the BS you see on TV is for raise $$ its a hustle. Shooting a rhino is unthinkable there are about 400 in the wild compaired to well over 100K elephants

Deforstation for exotic woods is a bigger issue than ivory. dont forget that a cue is 98%wood +/-.
 
Hail Mary Shot said:
Oh and By the way, soliciting the use of cars and any other vehicle that uses gasoline can contribute to global warming! So I guess it doesn't bother your conscience at all or better start walking your way to work then ! :D
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Oh the old if you smoke you can't be an environmentalist misdirection arguement. This is used by people who can't defend thier position on moral grounds so they point the finger at someone else to take some of thier own guilt off.

I assume you drive by the way?

Hail Mary Shot said:
I see. so you are saying that liars and thieves have a conscience? is that your argument? clearly you have missed the point here. Regardless of the laws that had been passed, and the so-called teachings that you have shown to your children, you cannot force them to become vegetarians. though being a vegetarian isn't right also (in retrospect). I didn't say that I did nothing to teach them what is right or wrong, I'm saying that the decision is theirs, basing upon their conscience whether they solicit the use of Ivory or not and regardless of the circumstances in which the Ivory was made (whether from good or bad). I hope that you comprehend already or do I need to explain further?
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Being a vegetarian is a lifestyle choice, not hunting or using materials from an endangered spiecies for fashion and prestige is not. I didn't miss any point, your point is that if you don't give a crap if your actions make an impact on an endangered spiecies then it's not wrong.

Oh and BTW I take the subway to work in the winter and ride my bike in the summer. I do drive when it's necessary, but I try to lessen my impact on the planet.

Don't bother replying, you don't have a higher moral ground to stand on.
 
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