Is Live Streaming the Beginning and the End?

ForumGhost516

ForumGhost516

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Many people recently have said that Live Streaming is the future of our sport. While I tend to agree with this that Pool is seeing a new way of showing itself, a new beginning if you will with a much more reachable target audience, I still feel that this could be the end of an era when VHS and DVD were the best way to view matches. I have the dvd set from the 2007 turning stone classic and was wondering this year where was Accu-Stats? The live streaming is great but doesnt it cut into the profit margin of that sector of the business? I mean accu-stats sort of answered back with the invitational putting five of the greatest pool players on the planet together for a great tourney and then producing some incredible DVD Footage plus some player reviews. TAR answers this with its action challenges and action all arounds however the bigger tourneys like the us open are they going to go the same way live streams with no dvds?

I hope not. I hope that both can co-exist.

Would love to hear some thoughts.

Charlie
 
The people who are streaming the video from the tournaments can save the footage to their harddrive, from there, making DVDs are easy. Live streaming and DVDs can co-exist with no problem. What you'll probably see is an expanded profit margin with matches available to purchase online that you can directly download to your computer as well as order a DVD if you choose to do so.
 
I'll admit this is just a bit over my head but I'll give you some food for thought.

ESPN has copy rights on footage. Pro Billards is no different than any other sport. I believe that some of these issues are being mulled over by the WPA and WPBA and others involved. I'm sure there will be press releases as more and more streaming is going on and decisions are made. Watch the front page of AZBilliards.com for more info and the history file of press releases.

You are correct, these can and will be recorded for later editing and uploading to different sites and for purchase from individuals. "Who" gets their hand in the "pot" makes things get ugly.

Sorry I do not have more info on this. :)
:cool:
 
ESPN only owns the footage of the matches they show on TV (typically the semis and the finals for the WPBA). This is why the WPBA will be able to stream any of the prelim matches. That being said, streaming has to get a lot better before it becomes the primary way that people watch pool. One static camera (which is the way that most of these are shot), simply doesn't cut it. In many cases, streaming is about the same level of quality as a bootleg movie from some guy sitting in the theater recording on a handheld camcorder.

The other side of the coin is that better production values require subscription revenue. As we saw with last year's WPBA stream, people just aren't ready to pay for it yet (at least for women's pool).
 
In the UK, the entry to the Premier League is the Championship League.

The Championship League is seen only on the web.
There is no live audience, no TV coverage
Only the computer viewers and live commentators

The final Group plays Monday and Tuesday next week with the group winners playing on Wednesday and Thursday.

Play starts about 6 am EDT and ends whenever play is over, probably 3 pm or later.

Two tables, both available to view on the web.

You can probably find the connections Monday at

http://www.channelsurfing.net/
 
Quality is important and the proper equipment is VERY expensive. For someone to do substandard steaming and "charge" for it is ridiculous. Also the commentator talking about what the waitress is wearing (or not wearing), getting a drunk on and cursing is simply NOT professional.

Mike is very concerned about quality and has put out money out of his own pocket to make his "AZB Live Steam" the best quality product at no charge to the spectators. Advertisers will step up and absorb some of the expense when they see the value.

My .02 cent.

Here's the steaming going on right now in PA http://www.mogulus.com/azbtv
 
good stream quality is nice, but what you're paying for is the fact that it's live. If quality is your main priority you get the DVD.

I might pay for a live stream with somewhat weaker quality and I don't mind at all if the commentator occasionally steps out of the box and says something offcolor. When commentary is nonstop professional and only the sort of thing you could say on broadcast TV, it can get kinda boring.
 
Streaming has a long way to go. One still camera, the fuzzy, jerky feed and the guy on the mic having a one sided conversation is annoying at best. Yep... long way to go.
 
Well Said Sir

Bigjohn said:
Streaming has a long way to go. One still camera, the fuzzy, jerky feed and the guy on the mic having a one sided conversation is annoying at best. Yep... long way to go.
Click to expand...

Believe it or not I started out just wanting to film some of the tournaments
around the south ......well that lasted for one tournament .I had so many
people wanting it "live streamed" .I was actually just doing it to keep myself
busy and get past a relationship that had went wrong .So needless to say
I started doing the streaming bit. I still have alot of footage that I am working
into some dvds .The one that makes me mad is the Carolina open
finals . I was so busy trying to get the table angle right for the folks online
that I forgot to set up another cam and missed some really good shots of
Charlie and JA race to 15 .So now I have a great set up for streaming and
covering some good angles and making dvds but I need to get a few advertisers
and such or just sell it all and keep playing the game I love .
I have been around video ,cameras,and electronics for most of my life and
have to set up projection tvs and screens for some of the pickiest people
and companies in Atlanta .So yes the quality of streaming lacks ALOT but
I guess I will press on till at least the end of the year and see what happens
Its really sad when I look at the stream quality and then take a match and
put it on a hd big screen like I like to do .Who knows maybe in the next year
or so they will get the compression technology worked out better and we
can all see things a little clearer:thumbup:
 
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Good post Matt.
Unless someone has been actively involved in the set up, feed, camera mount/pc connect, quality control programs, browser, firewire, connnection speed, ban width, etc., etc., etc., then they really don't know how complicated it can get.

Sitting here listening to Mike go on and on about this .... he amazes me. If he does not know how to do something, he gets on the internet, reads, asks, calls, whatever to make it happen. Did I tell you I'm proud of him...:blush:

Each broadcast gets better and better. He takes suggestions, makes changes. He truly wants to make pool/billiards the best that it can be.

If you think for a minute that Mike or Jerry is boring then you have not heard them do commentating. Both guys throw in stuff that is off the wall, keeps me laughing. But you will never hear those two commenting bad things about a server, bringing up very personal information about pool players, or drinking on the job unless it's a soda. Those guys that do that, give pool a bad rap.:mad:

There is a lot of new features with video, camera, computers and electonics coming out over the next few years and you'd better bet Mike and Jerry are all over it. Both guys cannot live without email, cell phones and lap tops. ;) It's going to get even more interesting.:)
 
AZ is Great

BrandyWine said:
Good post Matt.
Unless someone has been actively involved in the set up, feed, camera mount/pc connect, quality control programs, browser, firewire, connnection speed, ban width, etc., etc., etc., then they really don't know how complicated it can get.

Sitting here listening to Mike go on and on about this .... he amazes me. If he does not know how to do something, he gets on the internet, reads, asks, calls, whatever to make it happen. Did I tell you I'm proud of him...:blush:

Each broadcast gets better and better. He takes suggestions, makes changes. He truly wants to make pool/billiards the best that it can be.

If you think for a minute that Mike or Jerry is boring then you have not heard them do commentating. Both guys throw in stuff that is off the wall, keeps me laughing. But you will never hear those two commenting bad things about a server, bringing up very personal information about pool players, or drinking on the job unless it's a soda. Those guys that do that, give pool a bad rap.:mad:

There is a lot of new features with video, camera, computers and electonics coming out over the next few years and you'd better bet Mike and Jerry are all over it. Both guys cannot live without email, cell phones and lap tops. ;) It's going to get even more interesting.:)
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That's why AZ is so great. Mike's commitment to continuous improvement.

I am a member a few other forums too, plumbing, home improvement, biking and mountain biking. NONE even come close to the entire experience that we enjoy here.

Kudos to Mike!!

Ray

(this is the part where I suck up)
ps. you know what they say.....behind every great man there's a great woman! ;)
 
ForumGhost516 said:
Many people recently have said that Live Streaming is the future of our sport. While I tend to agree with this that Pool is seeing a new way of showing itself, a new beginning if you will with a much more reachable target audience, I still feel that this could be the end of an era when VHS and DVD were the best way to view matches. I have the dvd set from the 2007 turning stone classic and was wondering this year where was Accu-Stats? The live streaming is great but doesnt it cut into the profit margin of that sector of the business? I mean accu-stats sort of answered back with the invitational putting five of the greatest pool players on the planet together for a great tourney and then producing some incredible DVD Footage plus some player reviews. TAR answers this with its action challenges and action all arounds however the bigger tourneys like the us open are they going to go the same way live streams with no dvds?

I hope not. I hope that both can co-exist.

Would love to hear some thoughts.

Charlie
Click to expand...


streaming prolly is the future of pool. i know accustats has done a lot for promoting the game and making great matches available, but i find there prices pretty steep. i was at turnstone the year accustats was there and their whole process was pretty intrusive both to the players as well as the fans. this year when i heard that az was streaming i was a little disappointed b/c i thought it would be similarly intrusive, but i was wrong. the stream was great. i loved watching the matches steamed on thurs and fri and when i was there the steaming set up didnt interfer with my enjoyment of the matches. dont forget the live chat. that was pretty cool. the only thing that would have made ts better was some commentary but the set up didnt really allow for this. kudos again to az for providing this great service for free.

brian
 
BrandyWine said:
...If you think for a minute that Mike or Jerry is boring then you have not heard them do commentating. Both guys throw in stuff that is off the wall, keeps me laughing. But you will never hear those two commenting bad things about a server, bringing up very personal information about pool players, or drinking on the job unless it's a soda. Those guys that do that, give pool a bad rap....
Click to expand...

I must say that ever since I began listening and viewing pool matches, Jerry has been one of my faves. The first time I saw an international tournament on TV, they had this English fellow and an American with a sweet Southern drawl. The two of them made sweet music and were beautiful-sounding on the air. I never did see them, only listened to the colloquy. I couldn't stop watching the matches. The English guy's voice would go up and down, and his descriptive adjectives were hilarious. The Southerner from America seemed to know each player and could give a little insider info about their track record. Even my boyfriend, who hates watching pool on TV, came in and watched, enjoying the commentary.

A few years later, I was in Philadelphia at a Capital City Classic tournament, sitting in the restaurant enjoying a breakfast. This man comes over to our table and sits down with us. Somehow we got on the subject of pool on TV, and I mentioned that I really enjoyed the commentary of a recent TV footage with a colorful English anchor and a Southern American anchor. He said, "I think that was me." That was the first time I met Jerry Forsyth. :embarrassed2:

What separates AzBilliards from ALL THE REST is that they strive to ensure that a modicum of respect is given to all entities of pool, that each entity is given a fair shake. I noticed on the live chats of their broadcasts, there is no bashing, no vulgarity or nasty comments about anyone or anything. When Hall of Famer Robin is on the chat, Jerry makes sure she is welcomed.

And I'll end by saying this. AzBilliards has NEVER, NEVER, NEVER forgotten who was there with them from the beginning, i.e., whether it be a promoter, tournament director, pro player, or industry member. Even after the huge growth of AzBilliards years later, they still treat these people with dignity and respect. There is a reason why AzBilliards is still the largest pool site on the Internet and continues to be enjoyed by many around the globe. :smile:

When those powers-that-be realize who's making a difference in this pool world, AzBilliards will definitely remain at the top of the list. Whether you're a multi-million-dollar industry member or a lowly broke-dog pool player, AzBilliards never forgets their "friends." I can't say that about others.

As such, their live streaming ROCKS, and I think it continues to get better and better. The quality of the video, as well as the expertise that is brought to the commentary is superb. I hope they keep it coming.
 
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First, it is a major concern of AZB that we not do any harm to those who came before us. Before we agree to do a live stream at any event we call Pat Fleming and see if he is going to be at the same event. If he is, we turn down the opportunity to do the stream. Second, because Pat's quality cannot be equaled without a HUGE investment, we do not feel that we threaten his product. While we do not prevent anyone from capturing our streams or the videos we post on or site, they do not compare in any way with the great product that Accu-Stats puts out and we encourage everyone who wishes heirloom quality videos for their collection to support Pat and buy his product.

As for the future, we are waiting for the technology to catch up to what we need. The feeds we are putting up now are crap compared to what we should be able to do if the technology were better. All we really want is internet pipes to be big enough to give us streams that do not chop up or stall and freeze. This will come in due time. Until then, we truly appreciate the loyalty of our viewers and hope you will all join the party in the chat rooms when we stream. We love you folks and want you to enjoy your stay whenever you visit us at AZB.

I do urge everyone to buy videos from Accu-Stats. They are the guys who forged this road when no one else was building one, they put out the best product by far and they deserve your business. We also hope that you will support the niche players like TAR and OTR. All of us who do live streams do so without any profit involved and even dig deeply into our own pockets to do the work. In short, we are all betting on the come. Please pay attention to the companies who sponsor these streams and let them know that you appreciate their support of the game we all love.

Thanks to all of you!
 
Thank you again for all you do. I actually thought the quality was pretty decent the other night. A bit blurry and the camera needed to be higher up, but the actual framerate was smooth and stalls weren't very noticeable. Except when they last 10 or 15 mins., d'oh.

The technology is there, it just comes down to cost again. The are codecs that give fantastic compression, and services that can pipe those well-compressed bits to millions of people at once. And multicasting that does everything more efficiently. It's just a problem of cost, and I guess whether or not those services like ustream and mogulus are being run intelligently.

When streaming comes together and happens properly it's so nice, hundreds or even thousands of people all seeing the same smooth video. I'll try to get in touch with some people who I know put out some monster quality streams and see what their secret was. I have a bad feeling the answer will boil down to $$ but who knows.
 
Bigjohn said:
Streaming has a long way to go. One still camera, the fuzzy, jerky feed and the guy on the mic having a one sided conversation is annoying at best. Yep... long way to go.
Click to expand...

I agree. The current Internet infrastructure is not capable of providing reliable high quality video streaming in comparison to traditional broadcast media. Until there is end-to-end quality of service and proper multicast technologies in place the jerky and unreliable streams will be all you can really count on. The production qualities of the source material are another mater. In my opinion why would anyone invest in a more elaborate production when you broadcast over the equivilent of a couple of tin cans with a string in between and you generate very little revenue.

Dave
 
Let me just say last night at Valley forge during the six thirty minutes I got to spend some time doing commentary on the mic for you guys. and it was terrifying. I am a trained professional MC and let me tell you I have the utmost respect for Jerry and Mike and think they are doing a terrific job. I honesty think you couldnt find a better due for the job. KEEP IT UP!!!!!!
 
Great posts from everyone. Jam ...."I'm misty"... snif,snif
(very insightful and amazing) thanks.

I read Jerry's post...all I can say is:
Integrity
Humility
Sacrafice
Support
Amazing

Yall may not know Jerry well... Let me tell you he has a heart of Gold (and an Amazing wife) He has been around billiards so long that his sparing partner was Jesus. LOL He knows more about pool than any person I have ever met. And get this....he cares! He is 100% what you see is what you get. He will give you his honest opinion keeping facts in line. The icing is...he is very funny. :p

Mike...is quiet and reserved (always has been). He learned how to step out of his comfort zone when he was younger to help people but he is still nervous. Jerry has lovingly pushed Mike in front of the camera to do more. Mike is extremely uncomfortable but does it anyway. He has a wonderful MIC voice and a sarcastic witty humor. Mike is also 100% real.

Who could loose with these two guys!

Yes, AZBilliards is the #1 site in the world. It would take an amazing miracle for any other site to even come close. (Mike showed me the #s) Blew my mind. Yet these guys are too humble to toot their own horn. They just say.... sit back and watch it happen with a grin on their faces.

I imagin there is going to be some pretty "cool" things happen with AZBilliards and AZBtv in the next year. I'm NOT telling, you can't make me. :D
 
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I will always think of AzBilliards as the number-one pool site on the Internet, bar none.

That said, I agree with much of what Jerry Forsyth has written. I wouldn't expect anything else from him. He's a true gentleman and has the sport's future in his heart at all times. Of course, it is in all of our interests for pool as a sport to advance, and each industry member today who is out there giving it their all deserves recognition and support.

It is no secret that Pat Fleming, who used to be a pro player, BTW, is a pool pioneer. That is why he was inducted into the BCA Hall of Fame last year, along with Allen Hopkins. And it was about damn time too. Both of these gentleman have really given a lot to pool in so many ways.

Allen Hopkins, as an example, never ceases to amaze me. The Super Billiarsd Expo has always been a hit with the fans, players, and industry folk, but his ESPN broadcasts are always striving to find a new platform to present pool to mainstream America.

Pat Fleming and Accu-Stats. I have so many Accu-Stats DVDs and videos, and I cherish each and every one of them. Here's a snippet of Pat Fleming's Wikipedia article, which gives a little insight of this pool great:

As a child, Fleming had a keen interest in statistics. At the age of nine, when he began learning the game of pocket billiards, he made detailed records of his runs, how much he played, and his practice time. His love of statistics is how he came to create the Accu-Stats score-keeping system, which is still used today to measure the accuracy of pool games.

Pat Fleming played straight pool in the 1970s and early 1980s. He has made many contributions to cue sport, but his most notable contributions is the creation and continuing development of Accu-Stats Video Productions, based in Butler, New Jersey. Accu-Stats Video Productions has been videotaping more than 1,000 tournament matches and preserved performances by the world’s greatest pool and billiards players since the mid-1980s. Fleming started the enterprise to document matches for statistical analysis. (An Accu-Stats Total Performance Average is now a widely known and recognized measure of pool performance levels.) Fleming started to offer videotapes of those famous performances and players for sale to players and fans of pocket billiards. Today, the VHS tapes and DVDs are invaluable as entertainment and training tools, along with the most complete video record of two generations of famous pool players.

The BCA Hall of Fame Board held a general election deciding if Allen Hopkins and Fleming would be inducted into the BCA Hall of Fame for their careers and their work in early April 2008. The Board has a total of 52 members. Those members are current Hall of Fame members, billiard industry promoters and historians, and members of the billiard media. As it was voted that Hopkins and Fleming would be inducted, they became the fifty-second and fifty-third industry figures inducted into the BCA Hall of Fame, which was established in 1966 Fleming and Hopkins were inducted to the BCA Hall of Fame during the induction ceremony on June 12, 2008, at the Charlotte Convention Center in Charlotte, North Carolina. Now with Hopkins and Fleming in the BCA Hall of Fame, there are now 41 members of the Greatest Players wing, and 12 enshrined for Meritorious Service.

I think there's room in this pool world for AzBilliards, Accu-Stats, and others that came AFTER them. Each brings a different product to the table, and how fortunate we are as the pool public to have a variety. The more, the merrier, I say. I'll still have my faves, though! :smile:

How boring it would be if there was only one pool product out there. Thank the good Lord, we do have the ability to see MANY different pool products. It would be pretty dull if there weren't a variety.

Brandywine, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Mike and Jerry in the BCA Hall of Fame someday. Both of them are long-time pool supporters, and I gotta say I really do enjoy their pool commentary. That's just ONE out of MANY of their good traits! :smile:

Oh, one more thing about Pat. Every time I have seen him on the tournament trail, which has been a long while, he always greets my boyfriend with a check for the DVDs/videos that he sold of his pool matches at the U.S. Open, Derby, et cetera. He's a stand-up guy, Pat Fleming is, and he doesn't forget the pool players. He treats each one with dignity and respect.
 

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Great picture JAM thanks for sharing. (all)

Mike has allow "competition" on here to post (to some degree), he does not want to stiffle the pool world of any knowledge and he has been VERY patient with some of them. He'd like to see all the industry working together for the good of pool. Visionary. But you know people they always want to stir the pot. :p I personally would not sit back and let people attack me or my integrity especially on my own website!

I have heard nothing but nice things about Pat Fleming and Allen Hopkins and hope to meet both one day. There are so many Pro players I have met already and so many more I want to meet. They have all been so kind to me. That means a lot not being a regular player. Mike and Jerry really believe in supporting their advertisers. They are always looking for new things that will enhance pool in any way.

Neither Mike or Jerry are looking for Fame, yet I believe you are correct. If they keep "Falling" into success and doing the "right things" all the time.... they are just likely to end up there. :rolleyes: LOL

Maybe one day my "non-pool" playing extended family will be proud of him. :confused:
 
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