I think this is a good idea. Boston Billiards in Nashua, NH is a fine example of this concept. They have a couple of ping pong tables and a small arcade area along with a load of gold crown tables. They have a huge, elevated bar as well. None of these things get in the way of the pool tables and it's set up very well. I think if it's going to be an adult game room of sorts it should be planned this way. None of the other activities should get in the way of another if that makes sense. Boston Billiards also has fine service and very fine looking ladies working the place. Always a pleasure! I miss the place.
Is Pool Appropriately Priced to Flourish?
- Thread starter 336Robin
- Start date
I think this is a good idea. Boston Billiards in Nashua, NH is a fine example of this concept. They have a couple of ping pong tables and a small arcade area along with a load of gold crown tables. They have a huge, elevated bar as well. None of these things get in the way of the pool tables and it's set up very well. I think if it's going to be an adult game room of sorts it should be planned this way. None of the other activities should get in the way of another if that makes sense. Boston Billiards also has fine service and very fine looking ladies working the place. Always a pleasure! I miss the place.
Pool is expensive in Manhattan. Unless your doing a special rate, its often 10-12 dollars per person per hour. It's not too bad once you leave manhattan though, if your sharing the cost with another person at the table. Otherwise it will still be 10-12 an hour. With leauge fees and table time, I think each week I am at about 100 a week for pool.
Robin, sorry about the late reply. It solely lies within the marketing of the game. You can price anything whatever you want, it's how you sell it. I think that sounds very cliche, but it's the truth.
There are several things that an owner can do for marketing, but have you ever seen a pool hall have a commercial, an ad in the paper, or a radio ad, or even a remotely asthetically pleasing website that would attract viewership? I've seen like one or two websites, but that's about it. You can't have the "Field of Dreams" mentality any more when it comes to opening a business. You have to get out there and get people in the door.
The easiest thing I can think to do is to get kids in the door. Have a free monthly tournament with the yearly winner go to Junior Nationals or something. However, I'm not a marketing specialist -- just a data analyst.
I think the idea of an adult -- or family -- game room holds the most promise. The principle is diversification: some in your group might enjoy pool, others might like darts while others want to play -- whatever that game room shuffleboard game is called (?).
The tough call is whether to be an "adult" or "family" establishment. IMHO it's really one or the other because 98% of parents aren't going to take their kids to a bar (and likewise, a group of adults out on "fun night" don't want to be in a place with a bunch of kids).
Pool has fallen out of fashion. It was about to fall out when "The Hustler" arrived and it saw a resurgence. It was about to die again, then "The Color of Money" arrived and there was another wave.
Since that wave died out, there has been nothing of any note to attract the masses to pool rooms like those two films. The rooms have their work cut out for them trying to stay afloat.
Alcohol and food may be their only hope. Table time may help them make their expenses but it won't bring profits.
Since that wave died out, there has been nothing of any note to attract the masses to pool rooms like those two films. The rooms have their work cut out for them trying to stay afloat.
Alcohol and food may be their only hope. Table time may help them make their expenses but it won't bring profits.
Like many others, I agree that there is very little (if any) profit in table time. The profit comes mostly from alcohol and food, therefore getting people into the establishment and getting them to return relies a lot on the atmosphere.
I recently had an idea to create an in house junior's league for 13-18 year olds. I figured that if done early enough on a Saturday morning, it wouldn't interfere with the regular establishment hours. Soccer mom's and dad's are extremely competitive when it comes to their kids. It would introduce the business to the parents that wanted to come back during regular business hours. And in a few years as the kids are old enough to come on their own, they are already familiar with the establishment (not to mention have been playing pool competitively for a while). If the idea grew large enough, neighboring pool halls could have junior teams play against one another (just like an adult league). At the end of the session, have an award ceremony where you award plaques, ribbons, trophies, etc.
I recently had an idea to create an in house junior's league for 13-18 year olds. I figured that if done early enough on a Saturday morning, it wouldn't interfere with the regular establishment hours. Soccer mom's and dad's are extremely competitive when it comes to their kids. It would introduce the business to the parents that wanted to come back during regular business hours. And in a few years as the kids are old enough to come on their own, they are already familiar with the establishment (not to mention have been playing pool competitively for a while). If the idea grew large enough, neighboring pool halls could have junior teams play against one another (just like an adult league). At the end of the session, have an award ceremony where you award plaques, ribbons, trophies, etc.
Exactly
Mr. Sykes,
I completely agree its the lack of marketing that is the problem or at least one of them.
I think the answer to the marketing issue can be found but the answer is only part of the problem as your statement considering the Field of Dreams suggests.
If you build it they will come......not so anymore. Too many things are competing for peoples attention so if some form of direct marketing isn't applied likely any advertisement concerning pool or the Sports Bar may very well fly right over peoples heads.
Traditional forms of advertisement are usually expensive however a personal invitation to come out and play is nearly free yet it seems to be the very last thing that owners are willing to do.
People postulate about associations for making sure players get paid and they complain about the fact that our governing body association seems to be absent from the scene...well how about this for twist on that.
Perhaps its the Pool Room Owners that need an Association. I would say they do if they are to learn to coerce business through their doors because it appears to me that many of them have fallen into a trap. They turn the key on alcohol sales and wish for more yet miss the mark when it comes to recruiting people.
Pool Tables are bait.
If you invite people to come in and play some for free occasionally as advertisement to them, you might recruit someone who enjoys pool or you might get some bar business.
If you do nothing you get nothing and standing on the fact that you might deserve $5 an hour for your pool tables isn't getting people through the door.
If find that usually the hardest person you will ever have to get past is ....yourself.
That seems to be where Room Owners are at. They don't see they possess the bait to bring people in. All they can see is a liability of cost and not the fact that people want to play.....maybe they just need to be invited.
or they might not be able to see that they have a good amount of regulars who would play more if they were offered a membership that made it easier for them to afford the pool time.....and if they are getting a value then they will drink and eat more.
Activity begetting activity a crowd of regulars is great advertisement in itself.
I think Room Owners need an association to provide them guidance that they might listen to because it obvious they are the ones in charge of the industry.
Everything happens at the Pool Room and nothing happens without the owner approval.
Just my two cents worth.
Mr. Sykes,
I completely agree its the lack of marketing that is the problem or at least one of them.
I think the answer to the marketing issue can be found but the answer is only part of the problem as your statement considering the Field of Dreams suggests.
If you build it they will come......not so anymore. Too many things are competing for peoples attention so if some form of direct marketing isn't applied likely any advertisement concerning pool or the Sports Bar may very well fly right over peoples heads.
Traditional forms of advertisement are usually expensive however a personal invitation to come out and play is nearly free yet it seems to be the very last thing that owners are willing to do.
People postulate about associations for making sure players get paid and they complain about the fact that our governing body association seems to be absent from the scene...well how about this for twist on that.
Perhaps its the Pool Room Owners that need an Association. I would say they do if they are to learn to coerce business through their doors because it appears to me that many of them have fallen into a trap. They turn the key on alcohol sales and wish for more yet miss the mark when it comes to recruiting people.
Pool Tables are bait.
If you invite people to come in and play some for free occasionally as advertisement to them, you might recruit someone who enjoys pool or you might get some bar business.
If you do nothing you get nothing and standing on the fact that you might deserve $5 an hour for your pool tables isn't getting people through the door.
If find that usually the hardest person you will ever have to get past is ....yourself.
That seems to be where Room Owners are at. They don't see they possess the bait to bring people in. All they can see is a liability of cost and not the fact that people want to play.....maybe they just need to be invited.
or they might not be able to see that they have a good amount of regulars who would play more if they were offered a membership that made it easier for them to afford the pool time.....and if they are getting a value then they will drink and eat more.
Activity begetting activity a crowd of regulars is great advertisement in itself.
I think Room Owners need an association to provide them guidance that they might listen to because it obvious they are the ones in charge of the industry.
Everything happens at the Pool Room and nothing happens without the owner approval.
Just my two cents worth.
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Very well said. I completely agree. (Especially the bolded part).
After some time and thought no
After some time and thought I don't think pool is appropriately priced according to peoples earnings and the nature of the game.
As a person progresses in skill they want to play more so they can hit that zone.
For say if pool time is $4 dollars and hour when two people are playing and you want to play multiple times per week for 4 hours at a time in the evening that's going to put you at over $50 a week and over $200 a month if not more. I would spend more, much more. So I have to find discount time to make my foray worth my while.
I think this discourages a new 'Pool Culture" from developing and is likely why pool is where it is because people find it just a bit expensive to develop as a habit.
If you want return customers I think you have to be willing to give Packages for people or make your best customer that come all of the time a special rate. If the demographic that has plenty of money to burn cant be lured into the pool room, In the end the economics of the paycheck determine success, in my humble opinion.
People stop doing what they cant pay for it appears.
After some time and thought I don't think pool is appropriately priced according to peoples earnings and the nature of the game.
As a person progresses in skill they want to play more so they can hit that zone.
For say if pool time is $4 dollars and hour when two people are playing and you want to play multiple times per week for 4 hours at a time in the evening that's going to put you at over $50 a week and over $200 a month if not more. I would spend more, much more. So I have to find discount time to make my foray worth my while.
I think this discourages a new 'Pool Culture" from developing and is likely why pool is where it is because people find it just a bit expensive to develop as a habit.
If you want return customers I think you have to be willing to give Packages for people or make your best customer that come all of the time a special rate. If the demographic that has plenty of money to burn cant be lured into the pool room, In the end the economics of the paycheck determine success, in my humble opinion.
People stop doing what they cant pay for it appears.
I live in a college town with 2 nice rooms.
One has 10 8ft. GC's 2 9 ft GC's and free pool from 3pm till Midnight Sun-Thur, Cash League on Wednesday. Regular rate is $4 per person $8 max per table an hour. Waiting list after 9pm usually..
Other has 13 8ft. GC's 2 9 ft. Diamond 1 diamond bar box. Free pool 3pm till 3am Sun-Thur, APA League on Tuesday. $8 per hour standard rate per table. Happy hour/Food specials waiting list most days after 9pm also..
My observation: College students buy beer and food... Not table time.
Pool addicts draw their friends into playing/populating the pool scene , also can't afford table time 4 hours a day 3-5x a week!
Our rooms stay fun and full... No complaints here playing all week for practically free!
One has 10 8ft. GC's 2 9 ft GC's and free pool from 3pm till Midnight Sun-Thur, Cash League on Wednesday. Regular rate is $4 per person $8 max per table an hour. Waiting list after 9pm usually..
Other has 13 8ft. GC's 2 9 ft. Diamond 1 diamond bar box. Free pool 3pm till 3am Sun-Thur, APA League on Tuesday. $8 per hour standard rate per table. Happy hour/Food specials waiting list most days after 9pm also..
My observation: College students buy beer and food... Not table time.
Pool addicts draw their friends into playing/populating the pool scene , also can't afford table time 4 hours a day 3-5x a week!
Our rooms stay fun and full... No complaints here playing all week for practically free!
I always felt that pool is bait. If people don't play then it causes people to not come around and it sort of is better to charge less to have more people around and in your case...its free.....I see this as offering a value and when people get more they spend more or at least what they can afford.
I have two recreational passions, pool and tennis. Over the past 10-15 years tennis has taken the priority. Back to the original topic.
I play tennis at a extremely well kept and attractive "public" and membership facility here in S Fl. Annual membership is about $300 with unlimited play. I also buy new balls about once a week @ $2.50 a can, and have my racket restrung and re-gripped about once a month @ $20. That's about $650 a year for unlimited outdoor play and healthy exercise. Not bad.
On the other hand, I play pool once a week for maybe 4-5 hours and spend about $20 - $25 a week, or about $1,200 a year on pool. Not terrible, but it's only once a week. Two times a week would be $2400 and unlimited could be twice that if I played three or more times a week. For that money I could, literally, join a really nice country club with tennis courts, a golf course, and a few other perks.
Is pool a little out of line? Certainly not if you absolutely love and live for it, otherwise it just my be.
J
I really don't think it is the price of pool that is the issue. I bowled last night in a bowling league and there were two tables open for free play all night long in the bar. The tables were in nice shape, certainly good enough to play on for free, and I never saw anyone play on either one except for myself.
Public interest in pool is down. Oh and there wasn't anyone on the ping pong table all night either. There were about 40 league bowlers.
Public interest in pool is down. Oh and there wasn't anyone on the ping pong table all night either. There were about 40 league bowlers.
I disagree with this. Mom and Dad buy 60 dollar video games by the numbers all the time. Kids have access to money. Their attention is not captured by pool. A lack of exposure and the overwhelming peer pressure to play the new hit video game is killing pool, golf, bowling you name it.
Bottom line parents need to start kicking their kids out of the house more often instead of letting them be gaming couch potatoes. They need to support physical activities no matter what it is.
I don't think the price of pool is really out of line. I think the problem that more serious players run into is that we 1. Like to play on nice equipment in nice rooms where rates might be steeper and 2. we like to play long sessions which can get pricey at steeper rates. I think if these places wanted to attract these serious player types who are regulars offering a monthly or weekly rate would be a good idea. This would give the customers what they want while still being able to charge a premium for casual players who want to come in and just hit some and have some drinks. At the driving range I used to work at this was pretty standard. You could buy an individual bucket, or buy a membership depending upon your needs.
I agree, where I play they open up the tables every afternoon until 7:00pm and rely on the sale of liquor. I think that they may be using it as a right off as the owner has other profitable businesses.
Most of the pool rooms I've been to in recent years have all gone to a daily rate for the regular ie 8 to 10 dollars a day for playing noon to 6 or 7 PM , then the hourly rate goes up.
Some have a monthly all you can play price. All great ideas.
I just moved back to Columbus Ohio and the tables that had been in the poolroom since 1980 and were not in good shape then , were still there and were just about unplayable for anyone serious about the game.
Thankfully, it is now owned by someone else and they brought new Diamonds in , they are getting them set up the best they can for the players.
They are talking to the customers and at least trying to get feedback .
They know what to do , but it's nice to be asked , what do you think about this?
They are setting up small tournaments , several days a week with added money to some and planning on some bigger tournaments soon.
I am getting the pool bug again , before , I was about ready to just get my table set up and knock balls around if I wanted .
Now I want to go out and compete and practice , that's a winner for all of us!
Great job to Fred and Dee and the others at Players Family Billiards.
I wish them all the success in the world and I think they will do great with the attitude they have toward the customers.
Some have a monthly all you can play price. All great ideas.
I just moved back to Columbus Ohio and the tables that had been in the poolroom since 1980 and were not in good shape then , were still there and were just about unplayable for anyone serious about the game.
Thankfully, it is now owned by someone else and they brought new Diamonds in , they are getting them set up the best they can for the players.
They are talking to the customers and at least trying to get feedback .
They know what to do , but it's nice to be asked , what do you think about this?
They are setting up small tournaments , several days a week with added money to some and planning on some bigger tournaments soon.
I am getting the pool bug again , before , I was about ready to just get my table set up and knock balls around if I wanted .
Now I want to go out and compete and practice , that's a winner for all of us!
Great job to Fred and Dee and the others at Players Family Billiards.
I wish them all the success in the world and I think they will do great with the attitude they have toward the customers.
WARNING! Controversial Statement Below. Read At Your Own Risk.
If you know pool/billiard's history, you'd know the game is rooted and was once exclusive to royalty and the extremely wealthy. Like it's outdoor neighbor, golf, pool and billiards are first world games. They require high cost of entries to play, and continuous costs to keep playing.
Soccer (or futbol) for example is a third world game. It has a low cost of entry to play, and little to no cost to keep playing after the initial investment.
Throughout the world, pool is dying as soccer becomes more and more popular world wide.
Not that either one of these has anything to do with the other directly, they are two clear signs to me where society as a whole is currently headed. Although many wouldn't agree or think so, folks (even poor ones) in first world nations have pretty much lived like royalty when compared to lives throughout human history. We're living in the world of kings, and have been for some time. And like everything, nothing lasts forever and all good things eventually come to an end.
Pool, the world, and society all have far greater problems than what we can hope to discuss in this thread. We have much bigger issues to address as human beings living on this planet.
If you know pool/billiard's history, you'd know the game is rooted and was once exclusive to royalty and the extremely wealthy. Like it's outdoor neighbor, golf, pool and billiards are first world games. They require high cost of entries to play, and continuous costs to keep playing.
Soccer (or futbol) for example is a third world game. It has a low cost of entry to play, and little to no cost to keep playing after the initial investment.
Throughout the world, pool is dying as soccer becomes more and more popular world wide.
Not that either one of these has anything to do with the other directly, they are two clear signs to me where society as a whole is currently headed. Although many wouldn't agree or think so, folks (even poor ones) in first world nations have pretty much lived like royalty when compared to lives throughout human history. We're living in the world of kings, and have been for some time. And like everything, nothing lasts forever and all good things eventually come to an end.
Pool, the world, and society all have far greater problems than what we can hope to discuss in this thread. We have much bigger issues to address as human beings living on this planet.