Is pool dying in the US???

I actually predict a little resurgence for pool....it's a fairly inexpensive game, especially during the week....you don't have to be an athelete to play....bar boxes with buckets make it fun for beginners....it's something you can enjoy with your spouse/girlfriend....

With a little tweaking and better management, the APA could easily grow leaps and bounds, but it unfortunately has not found a way to manage out sandbaggers....I like the APA for bringing in the masses and keeping places open....

Movies for two with popcorn and coke, $40
Dinner for two with drinks and tip, at least $40
Round of golf for one on weekend, $40++
Tickets to a ballgame w food/drinks, $40++
Tennis, rackets need to be restrung periodically and balls last one or two outings

A couple of hours of pool with the lady, a pitcher or two, $30 w tip
Afternoon of practice on a Sunday, $5
Most sports rely on good weather, pool has AC and can be played any day
in any conditions

I think pool will see a less dramatic drop than some other events...
 
Porcospino said:
Leagues are not going to produce high caliber players, end of story.
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I'm not really sure, but I think I take offense to this statement!:scratchhead:

I started playing pool for fun when I joined the Air Force, but then I discovered the APA league. After my very first match I was given a skill level of 3, but I was determined to get to the top so I could play Masters divisions and BCA. It was a great sense of accomplishment when I became a 7 and 9. Of course eventhough that is the top of the APA ranks, I'm not foolish enough to think that I can go challenge SVB to a match. However I do think of myself as a high caliber player. There is a difference between a high caliber player and a professional! At least in my opinion.

Personally, I think that for someone at a young age to develop into a potential pro, they need to practice and for someone to take them under their wing and show them the way. Preferably a pro player, but if one is not available, maybe a high caliber player.

What you are saying is that no player in the APA could possibly be able to teach or mentor a young prospect. So for that reason I don't think I can agree with the statement that you made in your post.:frown:
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
LOL. You have no clue what level I play at, but because I play in the APA, I must be a hack. In the past 3 sessions, I have had two teammates, Mike Roberts and DJ McGinley, on my league teams. Mikey beat Thomas Engert at the BCA Open (straight race, no handicap). DJ has been a world beater in the past, as he used to run the road with Dennis Hatch, and DJ has beat the likes of Earl, Corey, etc. at the US Open in a non handicapped format. So, before you talk about my little league and how we have no heart, know who you're talking about.

The fact is, there is no real competitive stage for good players any more. I have 2 kids, a wife and a career. I cannot sit in the pool hall 7 days a week like I have no life. It's a GAME. The BCAPL is on Tuesday nights here, and I really enjoy a race format over single games. I decided to play CPA because it allows me a night out, and I have a chance to play and be social. Oh, btw, I earned my 7 status awhile ago. And, even though I play at a fairly high level (but definitely not NEARLY as good as you are), I still enjoy the APA/CPA. It's the whiners like you that cry about handicaps that ruin the league.

I bet you're the guy that plays in front of me at the golf course. 20+ handicap, but you're playing the tips because "real men" play from there. Shot a 114, but it was from the tips.
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Well, I'm glad you are a 7. Like I said I am sorry for making fun of your league, I wasn't intending to make anyone upset. I'm glad you have 2 kids, and a wife too. That's great for you, but some don't have those tie downs. So for them spending time in the poolhall isn't all that bad.

Really now, whiners like me?? I played one session of 8-Ball and a half a session of 9-Ball before I threw my APA towel in. I joined because my friend asked me too and quit after the 1st session. I quit 9-Ball because of the retarded format. LOL. Anyway I'm glad for you and I hope all is well.

Btw, I have no idea what you are talking about with the golf thing. So if you were trying to be funny on the sly, I didn't get it because I've never picked a club up in my 23 years of living.
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
Ever wonder how that kid you were talking about earlier, playing in the pool hall 7 days a week, got started?
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No actually I don't, because I know how I got started. There was a pool table in The Community Center on Base and they used to have Pool tournaments going when I went in to play Halo tournaments. I watched and said "I think I could be good at that." I tried it out and who would have guessed it "a natural"
 
The summer months are always tough in the area I live in. People go for the outdoor activities. But on the whole rooms are suffering.

The problem to me is:

Not enough room owners want or can't run their businesses. They pay people, (probably, very little) to work their rooms. These ,mostly young adults, could care less about the people playing in the room. Some seem to cringe, when you walk to the counter and ask for something. None of them know the rules of the game and rent a table next to people gambling to a bunch of ball-banger's when other tables further away are empty.

Of course poker hasn't helped. People want instant action and cards and casino's provide just that.

I've written a book that could help the game, but people aren't running out to buy it. The tournament I have at the end of my story has a half of million dollar first prize. It's not far fetched. If I get a break and they make a movie out of my book, which is being read by Lionsgate Studio, I'll make sure the tournament happens.

_____________________________

Help me out and I'll help the game as much as I can.

http://tommcgonaglerightoncue.com
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
The Europeans and Asians, btw, have an EXCELLENT house league program for pool in their areas.
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Please, I don't need for you to explain to me the cultures and lifestyles in Europe. I was stationed there for 3 years and it's where I 1st picked a stick up and I learned to play pool the whole time I was there.. I've only been playing pool in America for about a year and I've noticed considerable differences on how things are ran here and over there.
 
Black-Balled said:
Talk to us re: your thoughts of pool as a career about this in another 10y!!!!;)

Other than that, welcome to the board. Are you on Active Duty?
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No I just got out about a year ago and OMG did I make the worst mistake of my life... LOL The military (including 2 tours in Iraq) was easy living compared to being out here. :confused:
 
Black-Balled said:
Jeezis! Where th fukc are you then, Detroit?!@
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It's not that, it is just my skill trade I developed from working in the military isn't in high demand and it is hard to find steady work due to lay offs and cut backs. Obviously seniority in my career field takes priority with job preservation so when the cut backs came, being straight out of the military with little civilian end of experience. Guess who is the 1st to go?

Ding Ding Ding.

You are the new winner!!!!
 
Porcospino said:
Please, I don't need for you to explain to me the cultures and lifestyles in Europe. I was stationed there for 3 years and it's where I 1st picked a stick up and I learned to play pool the whole time I was there.. I've only been playing pool in America for about a year and I've noticed considerable differences on how things are ran here and over there.
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You're 23, so I'll forgive you. I don't trust anyone under the age of 28, because it usually takes most people that many years to realize they aren't as smart as they think they are.

Like Black-Balled said, let's wait 10 years and see what your opinion is then. I was gambling with other players 10 years ago. I could still get the same games now. Making money at pool has never been about tournament winnings. There will never be a "Tiger Woods" in the game of pool.

Your post highlights the problem of pool. You said you were playing Halo, and saw a pool table. You, yourself, were playing video games. Getting good at pool takes years, not months or days, which is what most people want. I was bitten by the golf and pool bug - I love both games. As far as the 24/7 pool thing, I own a Brunswick Metro - 4.5x9 with Tournament Blue Simonis 860 and Centennial balls. There are few pool halls that have as good or better equipment than I have at home. So, I'll play the odd league match here and there, otherwise I play no 8 ball or 9 ball on my table. I converted to 14.1 a long time ago.

At age 23, you seem way too opinionated about leagues and the talent they can produce. How about going and playing in a few good, strong leagues and then come back and report how you're tearing it apart? We had pro players in our little league in Burlington, Ontario getting beat here and there. A couple of guys who have placed top 20 at the US Open play in our league as well. Our population is around 200k. If you look hard enough, you could probably find some real stiff competition in one of those leagues if you can hack it. Oh, and about the rules being crap - deal with it. I personally like the no jump shot rules in the APA/CPA. No pushout sucks, but there is talk of them putting the push shot into the game for the next year. And, the funny thing is, your opponent has to play by the same rules as you.

Do you always expect to win? Seems like it from here. If I lose to a lower ranked player, it's usually because I gave them a chance to win. If I miss shots, I have no one to blame for losing but myself. Maybe the 3 I played had a stellar day, and shot the match of his life. You'd cry about the handicap. I'd look at it and say that I could have played better, and that coupled with him playing great was the reason he won. And, in a handicapped league or tournament, lower ranked players are supposed to win here and there. It shows that the handicaps work. If you keep beating the lower ranked players, either your handicap has to go up, or theirs has to go down. If you can beat the fish, but not the sharks, then you need to step up, or be satisfied pounding on guppies. I like to play the best opponent possible - I have no issues with losing. It's how I get better, sharper. If I'm winning the tournament every week, it's not a tough enough tournament. I'd rather play in a tourney that I will have to play my best to win it, than to show up to a charity tourney every week where they just hand me the money. It's about competition for me, not winning. Winning is a bonus, but I'd rather lose hill-hill to a lion than hammer a mouse for the cheese.
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
You're 23, so I'll forgive you. I don't trust anyone under the age of 28, because it usually takes most people that many years to realize they aren't as smart as they think they are.

Like Black-Balled said, let's wait 10 years and see what your opinion is then. I was gambling with other players 10 years ago. I could still get the same games now. Making money at pool has never been about tournament winnings. There will never be a "Tiger Woods" in the game of pool.

Your post highlights the problem of pool. You said you were playing Halo, and saw a pool table. You, yourself, were playing video games. Getting good at pool takes years, not months or days, which is what most people want. I was bitten by the golf and pool bug - I love both games. As far as the 24/7 pool thing, I own a Brunswick Metro - 4.5x9 with Tournament Blue Simonis 860 and Centennial balls. There are few pool halls that have as good or better equipment than I have at home. So, I'll play the odd league match here and there, otherwise I play no 8 ball or 9 ball on my table. I converted to 14.1 a long time ago.

At age 23, you seem way too opinionated about leagues and the talent they can produce. How about going and playing in a few good, strong leagues and then come back and report how you're tearing it apart? We had pro players in our little league in Burlington, Ontario getting beat here and there. A couple of guys who have placed top 20 at the US Open play in our league as well. Our population is around 200k. If you look hard enough, you could probably find some real stiff competition in one of those leagues if you can hack it. Oh, and about the rules being crap - deal with it. I personally like the no jump shot rules in the APA/CPA. No pushout sucks, but there is talk of them putting the push shot into the game for the next year. And, the funny thing is, your opponent has to play by the same rules as you.

Do you always expect to win? Seems like it from here. If I lose to a lower ranked player, it's usually because I gave them a chance to win. If I miss shots, I have no one to blame for losing but myself. Maybe the 3 I played had a stellar day, and shot the match of his life. You'd cry about the handicap. I'd look at it and say that I could have played better, and that coupled with him playing great was the reason he won. And, in a handicapped league or tournament, lower ranked players are supposed to win here and there. It shows that the handicaps work. If you keep beating the lower ranked players, either your handicap has to go up, or theirs has to go down. If you can beat the fish, but not the sharks, then you need to step up, or be satisfied pounding on guppies. I like to play the best opponent possible - I have no issues with losing. It's how I get better, sharper. If I'm winning the tournament every week, it's not a tough enough tournament. I'd rather play in a tourney that I will have to play my best to win it, than to show up to a charity tourney every week where they just hand me the money. It's about competition for me, not winning. Winning is a bonus, but I'd rather lose hill-hill to a lion than hammer a mouse for the cheese.
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Bro, I just want to say. You are probably the coolest guy I've ever met in my life.... You have the best equipment at your house, you seem to know everything (maybe you could be like the next Nostradamus, but for pool), you apparently know everything about me, and judging by the way you defend and take offense to league talk you might have some kind of shares going on the market, maybe.

Who cares about who you have in your league. Really, does anyone??
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Nope, I didn't think so.

They aren't in my league and I'm sure there are tons of league areas around America that have 7s that blow huge ones. My post was inquiring what can we do here in the US not Canada. I don't care what you guys do in Ontario. John Morra isn't going to be representing the US in the Mosconi Cup. Just because you know guys who placed in an event doesn't mean they are a top quality players. What that really means is that they have a gear and in that event they where shifted into it. Multiple things come into to play when you talk about placing in a tournament, aside from matching up with someone 1 on 1. The draw is the MAIN thing, momentum built, and rolls. It is only 1 set. Everybody knows that in one set anything can happen. I mean heck if I catch a gear I can take down some pretty nasty players if everything goes my way that ONE set. Seriously, stop trying to convince me about how awesome you and your league are. I get it....

As for rules in APA, I don't have to deal with anything... You think I am going to pay $7 a week and $20 a year to play in a busted league that I don't like?? LOL I play in Open events when they come around and chase people around my city for action. Leagues and beat handicap house tournaments are just not a good way to KEEP your jam up players interested. Unless of course if they have a wife, 2 kids, a career, the best table known to man in their house, and the best league players in the world in their area. Then they might stick around for awhile. For some of us who just suck at life in comparison to someone of that stature, just can't hack it really. You've broadened my horizons with your posts, thank you.

I don't think I know everything, far from it. Knowledge (knowing everything) and Intelligence (being smart) are two entirely different things. Even with me being under 28 (which is a retarded statement btw) you can trust me on the fact that I assure you I am far from stupid.

Also, in some comparisons Earl Strickland is the "Tiger Woods" of pool. I don't know which comparisons you are preferring to but I believe Earl has won many Major events including the US Open like 4 or 5 times. As far as popularity goes, many of people I know want to ONLY watch Earl play just to see what he is going to. So ratings go up as far as spectators so I really don't know what you mean by no "Tiger Woods" in pool. Please, elaborate.
 
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Porcospino said:
Bro, I just want to say. You are probably the coolest guy I've ever met in my life.... You have the best equipment at your house, you seem to know everything (maybe you could be like the next Nostradamus, but for pool), you apparently know everything about me, and judging by the way you defend and take offense to league talk you might have some kind of shares going on the market, maybe.

Who cares about who you have in your league. Really, does anyone??
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wait
..........................................................................
Nope, I didn't think so.

They aren't in my league and I'm sure there are tons of league areas around America that have 7s that blow huge ones. My post was inquiring what can we do here in the US not Canada. I don't care what you guys do in Ontario. John Morra isn't going to be representing the US in the Mosconi Cup. Just because you know guys who placed in an event doesn't mean they are a top quality players. What that really means is that they have a gear and in that event they where shifted into it. Multiple things come into to play when you talk about placing in a tournament, aside from matching up with someone 1 on 1. The draw is the MAIN thing, momentum built, and rolls. It is only 1 set. Everybody knows that in one set anything can happen. I mean heck if I catch a gear I can take down some pretty nasty players if everything goes my way that ONE set. Seriously, stop trying to convince me about how awesome you and your league are. I get it....

As for rules in APA, I don't have to deal with anything... You think I am going to pay $7 a week and $20 a year to play in a busted league that I don't like?? LOL I play in Open events when they come around and chase people around my city for action. Leagues and beat handicap house tournaments are just not a good way to KEEP your jam up players interested. Unless of course if they have a wife, 2 kids, a career, the best table known to man in their house, and the best league players in the world in their area. Then they might stick around for awhile. For some of us who just suck at life in comparison to someone of that stature, just can't hack it really. You've broadened my horizons with your posts, thank you.

I don't think I know everything, far from it. Knowledge (knowing everything) and Intelligence (being smart) are two entirely different things. Even with me being under 28 (which is a retarded statement btw) you can trust me on the fact that I assure you I am far from stupid.

Also, in some comparisons Earl Strickland is the "Tiger Woods" of pool. I don't know which comparisons you are preferring to but I believe Earl has won many Major events including the US Open like 4 or 5 times. As far as popularity goes, many of people I know want to ONLY watch Earl play just to see what he is going to. So ratings go up as far as spectators so I really don't know what you mean by no "Tiger Woods" in pool. Please, elaborate.
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Thanks for proving me right in regards to the immaturity of your age. I don't even need to respond to your little rant. Good luck at the open events. There's the BCA Open, the US Open, and that's about it for the major open events. You may want to consider the Joss Tour, but you'll need a car - Lord forbid you actually have to drive somewhere to play a big event. Go join the UPA, and you can become a tour player - sounds like you're ready for it, you natural, you.

If you don't get the Tiger Woods comparison, go get some more Knowledge (knowing everything) and Intelligence (being smart). While you're at it, here are two for you to learn: Humility (what you don't have) and Wisdom (what you really need right now).
 
I guess the topic is about pool dieing in popularity right now. When I ran a billiard supply from 1980 til about 1990 there was a seven year rule that proprietors use to follow, that it would peak every seven years.

"The Color of Money" changed all that, and I think the billiard industry is still on its way down since then.

Factor the economy into that and it's not a very pretty sight right now.
 
Porcospino said:
You win yet again.....
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Sorry, this was entirely my fault. When I read your post, I saw ??? at the end, which to me, implied that you were asking a question, and looking for other people's opinions. I should have realized that what you really were doing is disguising a statement as a question. What you really wanted to do was to whine for the sake of whining, have everyone agree with you, and if they didn't, well then it was time to unleash the fury.

So, I'll recant my previous stance.

You're right. Pool is dying. Go back to Halo, please.
 
The new Janet Lee movie should fix all this. When this movie rakes in $150 mil, everyone will want to own a pool table and play in competition. :smile:
 
Porcospino said:
Like I said if we fixed the priorities about pool here in America it would get better and attract more people that are rewarded for there performance not punished...
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Who should be responsible for fixing the priorities, and how should they go about that?

Roger
 
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