Is sandbagging the worst in pool vs other sports?

hang-the-9

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So really I have never thought of sandbaggers outside of pool, league, handicapped tournaments, etc...

But I recently started to get into tennis after a couple of (25 :) ) years off and wanted to see what my current skill would be in relation to the 1-7 ratings they follow. For those that don't know they go in halves so 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5 and so on with a 7 being a good pro (I guess 780 + in Fargo or something). At least it's a national level thing not just whatever tournaments or leagues want to do like when it comes to pool https://www.usta.com/en/home/play/y...nal/junior-and-adult-ratings-vs-rankings.html

It seems a lot of comments about players sandbagging in tennis also LOL For example from a YouTube comment
"Kevin may be 3.0. Sean is sandbagging. Even sandbagging is a 3.5. Not many 3.0s have the form of his serve and aggressivly approach and volley."
Another video
"Geez, neither of you guys got bumped? Good luck at 2018 4.0 nationals!"

Is anyone involved in any other ranking sports and do you find players sneaking in under their real skill there also as often as they do in pool?
 
hang-the-9 said:
So really I have never thought of sandbaggers outside of pool, league, handicapped tournaments, etc......
Is anyone involved in any other ranking sports and do you find players sneaking in under their real skill there also as often as they do in pool?
Click to expand...
I've never bowled but the bowlers in the pool hall frequently discussed sandbagging methods.

I think for many people the real attraction to handicaps is the chance to game the system. That's more interesting to them than the game itself.
 
The first one and a half spy movies you've seen will demonstrate that, if THEM know what it is, THEM will oppose it. NOBODY is obligated to play jam up. 100% neither.
 
sandbagging is pretty bad with academic students
 
I'd say dumping in baseball to get high draft picks is more consequential because of the stakes involved. Basketball tried to remove the incentive to dump by instituting the lottery system.

I had a guy ask me to join his APA team as their "hidden player" after I beat him in another venue. I'm supposed to waste my time showing up for a league and dump games to help the team get to Vegas. No thanks.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I've never bowled but the bowlers in the pool hall frequently discussed sandbagging methods.

I think for many people the real attraction to handicaps is the chance to game the system. That's more interesting to them than the game itself.
Click to expand...

I think you are being too kind to those people, I would say the attraction is to cheat to beat the honest people to win some reward.

I am a bit curious about leagues and tournaments in other countries that have a less "me me me" attitude than the US. Japan for example has way more of a whole country and group view than a self importance view, wonder how their leagues end up being. I just don't get the mindset of someone that comes into a place and lies about how well they play so they can play weaker players for an easy win. May as well be the same level of dirtbag that would beat up on kids half their size, that's pretty easy too.
 
Last edited:
hang-the-9 said:
... I am a bit curious about leagues and tournaments in other countries that have a less "me me me" attitude than the US.
Click to expand...
From what I've heard of the leagues in Europe, the main point is to get better so you get promoted to the next level of league -- local, city, state, country.
 
Bob Jewett said:
From what I've heard of the leagues in Europe, the main point is to get better so you get promoted to the next level of league -- local, city, state, country.
Click to expand...

Yes I've heard about their levels in the "clubs", there was a guy from Germany that I played with a bit and he was telling me about the levels of events they had. Would be nice to have such things here as a national league across all pool halls. You open a pool hall, you get put into the league system, people want to play in the higher events for money they play in the lesser events for less or no money till they are good enough to play with the good players.

Imagine tournaments where instead of mixing C,B and A players with any of them playing for the same money with handicaps to having the C players first play for $10, then go to the Bs where they play for $20, and finally the A level where they play for $40. No one would voluntarily want to stay at the C level. But now, we basically encourage cheating by not only offering the same prize to all but telling the worse players they don't have to work as hard to win. No wonder the cheaters cheat, the system is basically setup for the honest players to get taken. I would bet if the handicapped tournaments we have now with 40 players were divided by class with even games, with the lower levels paying little for entry and playing for token cash to train and the top players paying normal fee for the larger prizes the fields would dry up due to the cheaters staying away. The poor tournament directors have to be deaf and blind to not loose players. "what that guy, he's a C for sure, he never cashes. You say he ran 2 racks on you and won $2,000 a few weeks ago in NY well, we'll have check on that maybe next week or... , HEY LOOK IS THAT ELVIS?"

I'm at the point when someone asks me what my level is I just look for someone in the place that looks to play the speed I do and say "what this guy is I would be" instead of just saying "I'm a B+", because invariably that guy that looks to play as good as me is rated there as a C LOL I pretty much gave up on any of the handicapped events in my area due to this unless when I go play in one I find the handicaps actually even. So far I have not come back more than once to only a few of them, and usually because I had nothing else to do not because I actually thought I had a chance of doing well.
 
Last edited:
Sandbagging exists anywhere there is a perceived advantage to it. Stock cars, people that don't expect to cash in the feature sandbag to get good positions in the heat races that use an inverted start. Shooting pistols there were a half-dozen people in "A" class that dogged one or two matches a year then shot Master class scores the rest of the time. One year the top three places in the end of the year championship were taken by "A" class shooters, beating a large field of "Master" or open class shooters. My first season had seen me move from "C" class where all shooters without a background began, to "A" class. I knew I was shooting against four or five Master class shooters that were sandbagging in the championship match but I came to win and did. I don't think the sandbaggers had built up the same mental toughness I had when they had been cruising all year, not laying down their best efforts. Sandbaggers often beat themselves when the chips are down and I find that extremely funny!

Funniest sandbagging story I have is from playing Danny Medina when he was a young road warrior. We were playing bar box eight ball and he insisted I win the first three games. I was kinda angry that he thought he had to hustle me to get me in a game so the fourth game I jawed the eight ball with his last three balls all within a foot of an open pocket. I shot him a look, "OK Jackass, let's see you not get out here!" Just the thought in my head and in my eye, I didn't say anything out loud. However, he caught the look. He had introduced himself with a fore and hind name before we started when we gave a quick shake. Now as he started to break he straightened up and called me too him. "I am a road player out of Vegas, my name is Danny Medina. Let's both cut the crap and play pool!" At the time when I had homefield advantage we were dead even. Battled for hours, both had a good time, and we were friends when it was over. Maybe the toughest battle I have ever had on a pool table but no trash talking or game playing once we both agreed to quit sandbagging. Over forty years later it remains the most fun I ever had on a pool table.

Hu
 
hang-the-9 said:
Yes I've heard about their levels in the "clubs", there was a guy from Germany that I played with a bit and he was telling me about the levels of events they had. Would be nice to have such things here as a national league across all pool halls. You open a pool hall, you get put into the league system, people want to play in the higher events for money they play in the lesser events for less or no money till they are good enough to play with the good players.

Imagine tournaments where instead of mixing C,B and A players with any of them playing for the same money with handicaps to having the C players first play for $10, then go to the Bs where they play for $20, and finally the A level where they play for $40. No one would voluntarily want to stay at the C level. But now, we basically encourage cheating by not only offering the same prize to all but telling the worse players they don't have to work as hard to win. No wonder the cheaters cheat, the system is basically setup for the honest players to get taken. I would bet if the handicapped tournaments we have now with 40 players were divided by class with even games, with the lower levels paying little for entry and playing for token cash to train and the top players paying normal fee for the larger prizes the fields would dry up due to the cheaters staying away. The poor tournament directors have to be deaf and blind to not loose players. "what that guy, he's a C for sure, he never cashes. You say he ran 2 racks on you and won $2,000 a few weeks ago in NY well, we'll have check on that maybe next week or... , HEY LOOK IS THAT ELVIS?"

I'm at the point when someone asks me what my level is I just look for someone in the place that looks to play the speed I do and say "what this guy is I would be" instead of just saying "I'm a B+", because invariably that guy that looks to play as good as me is rated there as a C LOL I pretty much gave up on any of the handicapped events in my area due to this unless when I go play in one I find the handicaps actually even. So far I have not come back more than once to only a few of them, and usually because I had nothing else to do not because I actually thought I had a chance of doing well.
Click to expand...
Very good comment regarding "money incentives". IMO Lower the payouts for the classes of lower level players would push the incentive to move up to the next level. Not for all - but for many. As is - bagging will continue.
 
hang-the-9 said:
Yes I've heard about their levels in the "clubs", there was a guy from Germany that I played with a bit and he was telling me about the levels of events they had. Would be nice to have such things here as a national league across all pool halls. You open a pool hall, you get put into the league system, people want to play in the higher events for money they play in the lesser events for less or no money till they are good enough to play with the good players.

Imagine tournaments where instead of mixing C,B and A players with any of them playing for the same money with handicaps to having the C players first play for $10, then go to the Bs where they play for $20, and finally the A level where they play for $40. No one would voluntarily want to stay at the C level. But now, we basically encourage cheating by not only offering the same prize to all but telling the worse players they don't have to work as hard to win. No wonder the cheaters cheat, the system is basically setup for the honest players to get taken. I would bet if the handicapped tournaments we have now with 40 players were divided by class with even games, with the lower levels paying little for entry and playing for token cash to train and the top players paying normal fee for the larger prizes the fields would dry up due to the cheaters staying away. The poor tournament directors have to be deaf and blind to not loose players. "what that guy, he's a C for sure, he never cashes. You say he ran 2 racks on you and won $2,000 a few weeks ago in NY well, we'll have check on that maybe next week or... , HEY LOOK IS THAT ELVIS?"

I'm at the point when someone asks me what my level is I just look for someone in the place that looks to play the speed I do and say "what this guy is I would be" instead of just saying "I'm a B+", because invariably that guy that looks to play as good as me is rated there as a C LOL I pretty much gave up on any of the handicapped events in my area due to this unless when I go play in one I find the handicaps actually even. So far I have not come back more than once to only a few of them, and usually because I had nothing else to do not because I actually thought I had a chance of doing well.
Click to expand...
Another option relative to the APA is you get paid according to your handicap but since the league exists because of its appeal to lower level players I don't see that happening.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top