Is Schmidt's and charlie 626 Legit

[Get_A_Grip]

Yes, we know for a fact JS made hundreds of attempts over many months.

And yes, JS has nowhere near the experience playing 14.1 against masters like Greenleaf.

And yes, JS is capable of running 600+: after hundreds of tries, over many months, with artificially perfect conditions. Willie walked into strange room and did it.

There was no fluke to Mosconi's run. Over the years, numerous people here have reported watching him in person and saying he was far above anyone else when it came to playing 14.1. All saw 100 ball runs, almost on demand. He ran balls like water. Most people, that know anything about 14.1, acknowledge that given the slightest incentive he could have run 800 or more.

JS has s zero chance or walking into a strange room, taking two racks of practice, and running 500+.

Lou Figueroa

What you are saying here is most likely absolutely true. But...this is exactly why John set up his record breaking attempt in the manner that he did. I can't imagine anyone faulting him for that. John's record stands on it's own. But how he did it I would argue in today's time, is EXACTLY how someone else would need to do it. I like how John did it on a 9 foot table. So now, if anyone tries to break the 626, they most certainly would need to do it on a 9 foot table too. Nobody is going to go to Derby and just continue their 14.1 attempt on a Diamond and break the 626. That isn't going to happen. So if one of the elite pros want to break JOHN'S record, the only way they are going to do it is to use conditions similar to the one's John used IMO.

 

[lfigueroa]

What you are saying here is most likely absolutely true. But...this is exactly why John set up his record breaking attempt in the manner that he did. I can't imagine anyone faulting him for that. John's record stands on it's own. But how he did it I would argue in today's time, is EXACTLY how someone else would need to do it. I like how John did it on a 9 foot table. So now, if anyone tries to break the 626, they most certainly would need to do it on a 9 foot table too. Nobody is going to go to Derby and just continue their 14.1 attempt on a Diamond and break the 626. That isn't going to happen. So if one of the elite pros want to break JOHN'S record, the only way they are going to do it is to use conditions similar to the one's John used IMO.

I don’t think anyone can have a problem with “perfect conditions.”

I mentioned it because of the comparisons being made to Mosconi’s run snd the issue of whether JS could do what Willie did out on the road. And I wasn’t talking specifically about a Diamond table.

Lou Figueroa

 

[arnaldo]

. . . if one of the elite pros want to break JOHN'S record, the only way they are going to do it is to use conditions similar to the one's John used IMO.

You're very likely correct, G.
Sincere question: what specifically are all of the conditions John used, as you personally understand them to have been?

Arnaldo

 

[Black-Balled]

You're very likely correct, G.
Sincere question: what specifically are all of the conditions John used, as you personally understand them to have been?

Arnaldo

Back to page 1, for you!

 

[arnaldo]

Back to page 1, for you!

Page one and onward wouldn't enumerate or elaborate on GaG's personal understanding of all the specific conditions John used (conditions he suggests that an elite pro should optimally use to surpass John's 626).

Let him speak for himself if he wishes to. Such an enumeration would be very useful information for the hypothetical 626 record-breaker pro to know about, if GaG is correct.

Arnaldo

 

[Black-Balled]

Page one and onward wouldn't enumerate or elaborate on GaG's personal understanding of all the specific conditions John used (conditions he suggests that an elite pro should optimally use to surpass John's 626).

Let him speak for himself if he wishes to. Such an enumeration would be very useful information for the hypothetical 626 record-breaker pro to know about, if GaG is correct.

Arnaldo

Right...the distinction between when the conditions were and what an individual's beliefs of same is duly noted as potentially different.

Thanks for explaining.

 

[gerryf]

I am not at liberty to repeat names told to me in confidence -- you can choose to believe me, or not.

And yes, JS may be able to run over 600 but unedited evidence of this super power is hard to come by.

Lou Figueroa

There's the issue. You were told 'names' in confidence of pros who questioned Schmidt's run. Did you actually speak to these pros and hear the basis of their skepticism first hand? Who told you the names? Were they relilable or did they have an axe to grind? I can see why you wouldn't want to name names. And i suppose the names you heard were in confidence because someone in that chain didn't want to actually stand up and say something.

I doubt it all. Rumours upon rumours upon conspiracy theories.

The evidence of Schmidt's super power is on video. Have you asked Schmidt to show you the video? I would have thought someone so interested would have contacted him directly to see if they can arrange a viewing. It might cost you. But if you're a straight pool aficionado, he might be willing to accommodate you. If he thinks you're just a flake, he probably won't. You should ask and find out.

But to expect him to give his video to you, or to sell it for peanuts, doesn't make good business sense.

His video has been seen and will be seen in the future by the people he thinks matter. Most people seem willing to accept the word of the BCA and prominent players who have watched the video.

I'm far more confident with Bob Jewett's opinion than Danny Harriman's.

 

[lfigueroa]

There's the issue. You were told 'names' in confidence of pros who questioned Schmidt's run. Did you actually speak to these pros and hear the basis of their skepticism first hand? Who told you the names? Were they relilable or did they have an axe to grind? I can see why you wouldn't want to name names. And i suppose the names you heard were in confidence because someone in that chain didn't want to actually stand up and say something.

I doubt it all. Rumours upon rumours upon conspiracy theories.

The evidence of Schmidt's super power is on video. Have you asked Schmidt to show you the video? I would have thought someone so interested would have contacted him directly to see if they can arrange a viewing. It might cost you. But if you're a straight pool aficionado, he might be willing to accommodate you. If he thinks you're just a flake, he probably won't. You should ask and find out.

But to expect him to give his video to you, or to sell it for peanuts, doesn't make good business sense.

His video has been seen and will be seen in the future by the people he thinks matter. Most people seem willing to accept the word of the BCA and prominent players who have watched the video.

I'm far more confident with Bob Jewett's opinion than Danny Harriman's.

Like I said: you can choose to believe me or not — it doesn’t matter to me.

And again: I don’t expect JS to give me the video. If I see it, I see it, and will make up my mind then. If I never see it that’s fine. But I will always have my doubts, as will others with similar feelings.

And speaking about good “business sense,” lol, JS’ ship on monetizing the run sailed a loooooooong time ago.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Nick B]

Oh my GOD! For the first time EVER. I agree with JB and not with Lou. Something is wrong with the universe. I'm going to check to see if the water still spins clockwise in my toilet. There is a crack in the matrix.

 

[JB Cases]

Funny that in 1920 people packed a theater to watch a guy shoot pool night after night and some trick shots but in 2021 some think that a special night with a world record holder can't be a money maker.

Well, let me give you folks a bit of insight. There are hundreds of thousands of middle aged players with money. Of those probably ten thousand who have a deep reverence for both Mosconi and John Schmidt. For the paltry price of $50 per person John can probably count on consistent revenue for a long time.

As well he can continue to do exhibitions for a higher fee as the world record holder.

Imagine a whole line of John Schmidt World Record instructionals. We could be inundated with 626 gear. I'd buy a shirt.

 

[gerryf]

Funny that in 1920 people packed a theater to watch a guy shoot pool night after night and some trick shots but in 2021 some think that a special night with a world record holder can't be a money maker.

Well, let me give you folks a bit of insight. There are hundreds of thousands of middle aged players with money. Of those probably ten thousand who have a deep reverence for both Mosconi and John Schmidt. For the paltry price of $50 per person John can probably count on consistent revenue for a long time.

As well he can continue to do exhibitions for a higher fee as the world record holder.

Imagine a whole line of John Schmidt World Record instructionals. We could be inundated with 626 gear. I'd buy a shirt.

I agree. Video sales of prominent matches are pretty anemic according to one of the exhibitors at the tournament in Vegas, and i don't imagine a lot of people would shell out much for a video of his high run. The 14.1 community is pretty tiny in the big scheme of things.

The reviews of his presentation all seem to be highly positive and describe it as an entertaining evening. There's more income from a couple of evenings presentation than he'd get selling his video in a year. And once someone starts Youtubing his video, that would stop.

I'll be attending his showing later this summer, and am taking three players with me. Can't wait. I'm hoping we can hire him for a few hours of coaching.

Danny Harriman said he was selling an edited video of his claimed high run of 351, but I searched for it and couldn't find it offered anywhere. I asked him how many copies he sold but he didn't answer.

 

[Dan White]

Danny Harriman said he was selling an edited video of his claimed high run of 351, but I searched for it and couldn't find it offered anywhere. I asked him how many copies he sold but he didn't answer.

I bought a copy years ago. Might be time to watch it again.

 

[lfigueroa]

I agree. Video sales of prominent matches are pretty anemic according to one of the exhibitors at the tournament in Vegas, and i don't imagine a lot of people would shell out much for a video of his high run. The 14.1 community is pretty tiny in the big scheme of things.

The reviews of his presentation all seem to be highly positive and describe it as an entertaining evening. There's more income from a couple of evenings presentation than he'd get selling his video in a year. And once someone starts Youtubing his video, that would stop.

I'll be attending his showing later this summer, and am taking three players with me. Can't wait. I'm hoping we can hire him for a few hours of coaching.

Danny Harriman said he was selling an edited video of his claimed high run of 351, but I searched for it and couldn't find it offered anywhere. I asked him how many copies he sold but he didn't answer.

I kinda doubt it.

14.1 has limited appeal nowadays with whole swaths of the country unfamiliar with it. I've heard numbers of perhaps 50 people showing up at some showings and fewer at others. If you take into consideration his time and travel expenses I'm not so sure there's much profit. It most certainly is a hard row to hoe for insignificant income.

If he had made copies of the run available for sale in some format immediately after he might have gotten some traction with a decent marketing effort. AND experienced much less wear and tear.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

I bought a copy years ago. Might be time to watch it again.

I have a copy -- it's a great run though the video capture quality is a bit sketchy.

As I recall he has a wonky pocket on a Brunswick at the far left corner pocket that he tries to avoid. So shooting position to not have to go to that pocket he basically accomplishes the run shooting to five pockets.

Lou Figueroa

 

[gerryf]

I've heard numbers of perhaps 50 people showing up at some showings and fewer at others. If you take into consideration his time and travel expenses I'm not so sure there's much profit. It most certainly is a hard row to hoe for insignificant income.

If he had made copies of the run available for sale in some format immediately after he might have gotten some traction with a decent marketing effort. AND experienced much less wear and tear.

Lou Figueroa

Yeah, i remember that he was limiting it to 50 people, and that may have been due to the venue, but that would be better than watching it with 300 people. His exhibitions in the winter were limited in numbers by covid regulations.

I agree that 14.1 is a small market, and i doubt there would enough sales to offset his costs. Clearly JS agrees with both points.

Right now on Youtube, you can watch Schmidt's 434 and 366, as well as other 200 and 300 ball runs from Shaw, Melling, Stalev, Feijen, Hohmann etc.. And it's free. I prefer to watch them at x2 speed.

 

[lfigueroa]

Yeah, i remember that he was limiting it to 50 people, and that may have been due to the venue, but that would be better than watching it with 300 people. His exhibitions in the winter were limited in numbers by covid regulations.

I agree that 14.1 is a small market, and i doubt there would enough sales to offset his costs. Clearly JS agrees with both points.

Right now on Youtube, you can watch Schmidt's 434 and 366, as well as other 200 and 300 ball runs from Shaw, Melling, Stalev, Feijen, Hohmann etc.. And it's free. I prefer to watch them at x2 speed.

lol, touché.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Get_A_Grip]

You're very likely correct, G.
Sincere question: what specifically are all of the conditions John used, as you personally understand them to have been?

Arnaldo

What I was specifically thinking about was a dedicated venue for the attempt, with a table with generous sized pockets like John used, so they can make many consecutive attempts for month(s). Where the balls are regularly polished to avoid skids and with new cloth on the table and with the cloth also being cleaned regularly. John set the new record on a 9-foot table, so I would expect any future attempts to break the record to also be done on a 9-foot table. I don't think the 626 will ever be broken by someone just continuing a run at a tournament.

 

[wrldpro]

What I was specifically thinking about was a dedicated venue for the attempt, with a table with generous sized pockets like John used, so they can make many consecutive attempts for month(s). Where the balls are regularly polished to avoid skids and with new cloth on the table and with the cloth also being cleaned regularly. John set the new record on a 9-foot table, so I would expect any future attempts to break the record to also be done on a 9-foot table. I don't think the 626 will ever be broken by someone just continuing a run at a tournament.

This is happening as we all speak right now the only exceptions to be noted is all video live and free through a live stream with no editing or speeding up any video at all. No heaters under the slate or any other non sense.
The event will last as long as I decide and the players will make good money and be very comfortable in the establishment.
Also to note JS has been the only player to try for high runs with unlimited attempts since Cranfield in the late 1960s and early 1970s.
Js stated in 3 months of trying to run 500+ he attempted over 1300x.

 

[JB Cases]

This is happening as we all speak right now the only exceptions to be noted is all video live and free through a live stream with no editing or speeding up any video at all. No heaters under the slate or any other non sense.
The event will last as long as I decide and the players will make good money and be very comfortable in the establishment.
Also to note JS has been the only player to try for high runs with unlimited attempts since Cranfield in the late 1960s and early 1970s.
Js stated in 3 months of trying to run 500+ he attempted over 1300x.

thank you John Schmidt for inspiring others to step up and create events specifically designed to try and break your record. Your amazing effort with a reported 1300+ attempts in 3 months paid off by making 14.1 relevant again. Already some in my circle are practicing straight pool because of having watched your journey. It is amazing that you and your team have been such a motivating force among the pros, the shortstops, the backers, and the railbirds.

I can only think how cool it will be to see professionals actively chasing your world record run like you chased Mosconi's. How long will your record stand? Don't know but you can take pride in the fact that it has made some people really really emotionally and passionately invested in beating it.

The more that do try to chase your record the more publicity 14.1 will get. Perhaps someday this point in time will be remembered as the time when you created the spark that brought 14.1 back into worldwide popularity among enthusiastic players. We can't always predict what our actions will be part of creating or why some people get fired up to do things but sometimes those actions lead to a butterfly effect that is beneficial for everyone.

Time to start booking more shows. Subtitle: Chasing 626, what the next record holder has to look forward to in their journey.

 

[arnaldo]

The more that that do to chase your record the more publicity 14.1 will get. Perhaps someday this point in time will be remembered as the time when you created the spark that brought 14.1 back into worldwide popularity among enthusiastic players. We can't always predict what our actions will be part of creating or why some people get fired up to do things but sometimes those actions lead to a butterfly effect that is beneficial for everyone.

This is a well-stated, very positive aspect of what John has accomplished (beyond the feat itself) and an accurate way to view it, and with well-deserved fairness to John himself.

Arnaldo