Is "squatting the rock" on the break slightly overrated???

Maniac

Maniac

2manyQ's
Silver Member
The reason I ask this is because lately I have been having greater success drawing the cueball back down to the head rail (rotation games) where the 1-ball ends up IF it doesn't go into the side pocket. Now, that said, I can "squat my rock" with no problem whatsoever, but when I do I bet a good 75% of the time it ends up getting kicked away from center-table anyways by some rolling object ball. Am I missing something here? Is there a way to perfect "squatting the rock" without having an object ball kick it somewhere (many times NOT where I need it to be)?

I would suppose that if the 1-ball was going in the side pocket on a fairly regular basis, it would depend on where the 2-ball was placed in the rack as to what you might need to do with the cueball on the break.

Opinions please!!!

Maniac
 
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Maniac said:
The reason I ask this is because lately I have been having greater success drawing the cueball back down to the bottom rail (rotation games) where the 1-ball ends up IF it doesn't go into the side pocket. Now, that said, I can "squat my rock" with no problem whatsoever, but when I do I bet a good 75% of the time it ends up getting kicked away from center-table anyways by some rolling object ball. Am I missing something here? Is there a way to perfect "squatting the rock" without having an object ball kick it somewhere (many times NOT where I need it to be)?

I would suppose that if the 1-ball was going in the side pocket on a fairly regular basis, it would depend on where the 2-ball was placed in the rack as to what you might need to do with the cueball on the break.

Opinions please!!!

Maniac
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Maniac:

Hence the success of Shane's "pop and drop" break style -- i.e. where the cue ball pops straight up in the air a foot or so, and either drops straight down onto the center of the table, or else pops back towards the kitchen a bit. With this style of break, the cue ball is "in the air" when balls are crossing the center table area, and by the time the cue ball comes back down, those balls have pretty much cleared the center table area already, so there's normally nothing to kick the cue ball. At least that's the theory; Shane's got that technique down, and others are catching up with it.

It's a timing thing. If you can do the "pop and drop" break, great -- that's something to practice. But if not, you might find moving the cue ball around on the table, and "attacking" the head ball of the rack a different way, might yield better results -- i.e. no "cross-town traffic" as our friend Jimi Hendrix would call it.

Hope this is helpful,
-Sean
 
Squatting the rock is only overrated if 1)You do not control the 1 ball so you have a shot... 2)Your speed, hit on the 1balll, spread keeps getting the cueball kicked...

I can recall a period when all I was worried about was making a ball and trying to squat the cueball... I can recall matches where my break was working well in those 2 regards and I was getting kicked in the side half the time..... Today I would move my break spot slightly or take a little speed off.... Ahh for the joy of ignorant youth... And chalking things up to bad luck instead of making your own luck.......

There is nothing wrong with drawing whitey to play shape on the 1... I have a cut break in my bag that I like to use on bar boxes or with a magic rack where I draw the cueball out for shape on the 1....

Of course I am talking 9ball.... In 10ball squatting your rock is the nutz breaking from the box... The ball paths seem to leave whitey alone when he's squatted center table.....
 
Maniac said:
The reason I ask this is because lately I have been having greater success drawing the cueball back down to the bottom rail (rotation games) where the 1-ball ends up IF it doesn't go into the side pocket. Now, that said, I can "squat my rock" with no problem whatsoever, but when I do I bet a good 75% of the time it ends up getting kicked away from center-table anyways by some rolling object ball. Am I missing something here? Is there a way to perfect "squatting the rock" without having an object ball kick it somewhere (many times NOT where I need it to be)?

I would suppose that if the 1-ball was going in the side pocket on a fairly regular basis, it would depend on where the 2-ball was placed in the rack as to what you might need to do with the cueball on the break.

Opinions please!!!

Maniac
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I noticed when I thought strickland was breaking his best the cb would come back slowly and controlled as opposed to squatting as you put it. I think you have a good point. I notice the modern day shane version is to have a little follow on it, but hit it hard enough to stop the scratch in the side, yet it still comes back all the way as you say. More opportunity for shots down there.
 
Maniac said:
The reason I ask this is because lately I have been having greater success drawing the cueball back down to the bottom rail (rotation games) where the 1-ball ends up IF it doesn't go into the side pocket. Now, that said, I can "squat my rock" with no problem whatsoever, but when I do I bet a good 75% of the time it ends up getting kicked away from center-table anyways by some rolling object ball. Am I missing something here? Is there a way to perfect "squatting the rock" without having an object ball kick it somewhere (many times NOT where I need it to be)?

I would suppose that if the 1-ball was going in the side pocket on a fairly regular basis, it would depend on where the 2-ball was placed in the rack as to what you might need to do with the cueball on the break.

Opinions please!!!

Maniac
Click to expand...

You are upside-down. You would draw the ball to the top rail...the end from which you break.

And I agree, I get better shots on the 1b when I bring whitey up to the head-rail end of things.
 
Black-Balled said:
You are upside-down. You would draw the ball to the top rail...the end from which you break.

And I agree, I get better shots on the 1b when I bring whitey up to the head-rail end of things.
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Top-rail, head-rail, bottom-rail, foot-rail. How many rails are there?
 
JoeyA said:
Top-rail, head-rail, bottom-rail, foot-rail. How many rails are there?
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At least 9. Anyway a friend of mine slopped a 9-rail kick one time.

As far as where the cue ball goes on the break, I find people have as much success drawing, stopping, following, or caroming off the head ball to run the cue ball around the table (or back into the rack). It depends on how accurately you break, your speed relative to the table, and how well you (or your opponent) racks. I'd say pick three types of break you like and use whichever one is the most effective for that table on that night.
 
Black-Balled said:
You are upside-down. You would draw the ball to the top rail...the end from which you break.

And I agree, I get better shots on the 1b when I bring whitey up to the head-rail end of things.
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Okay, okay. Just for you I changed my OP to say head rail.

Maniac (was in a hurry earlier as his boat was ready to be picked-up from the shop)
 
...just make more balls on the break; less sh1t to get in the way or kick the cb all over the place.
 
Maniac said:
The reason I ask this is because lately I have been having greater success drawing the cueball back down to the head rail (rotation games) where the 1-ball ends up IF it doesn't go into the side pocket. Now, that said, I can "squat my rock" with no problem whatsoever, but when I do I bet a good 75% of the time it ends up getting kicked away from center-table anyways by some rolling object ball. Am I missing something here? Is there a way to perfect "squatting the rock" without having an object ball kick it somewhere (many times NOT where I need it to be)?

I would suppose that if the 1-ball was going in the side pocket on a fairly regular basis, it would depend on where the 2-ball was placed in the rack as to what you might need to do with the cueball on the break.

Opinions please!!!

Maniac
Click to expand...



Please explain what Squatting the Rock means, I am uneducated and I have never heard that term used before.

Thanks
 
Obviously on the break balls can be flying every which way so the CB (or any ball for that matter) can get kicked from it's intended location. To a large degree this can't be helped, it will happen. But the idea of squatting the cue ball has two pluses going for it. One is it give you the best chance of leaving it in the middle of the table where you have the highest percentage to have a shot on the legal object ball no matter where it ends up (kicked there or not). Secondly, squatting the CB results from a square hit on the snap, which typically means transferring more energy to the stack resulting in a more powerful break.
 
My break depends alot on how the table is breaking. Sometimes squat works, sometimes better to draw whitey to the side cushion and back out.
 
manwon said:
Please explain what Squatting the Rock means, I am uneducated and I have never heard that term used before.

Thanks
Click to expand...

I find this hard to believe coming from a cuemaker with as much AZB experience as you have, but......squatting the rock is a term that is used for getting the cueball to back up a bit and sit in the middle of the table after breaking the rack. Some people use the term when after a cut-break, the cueball goes to the side cushion and sidespin brings it back to the center of the table. I only use the term with the first example I gave. Basically, you're hitting the head ball dead solid, straight-on with a bit of low.

Maniac (thinks his own explanations always sound goofy)
 
manwon said:
Please explain what Squatting the Rock means, I am uneducated and I have never heard that term used before.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Craig:

This is when you're in the woods, you know, "them" woods with trees, and you're doing some outdoorsey activity. Suddenly, you get the urge to go (the squattin' kind), and you go find yourself a tree. But whatever it was you ate last night, you find yourself packed-up worse than Rosie O'Donnell's sink drain after she shaved, and you don't have your laxative with you. So there you are, bracin', squattin', and squeezin' (sounds like a Journey song?), hoping to get that "rock" out.

Hence, "squattin' the rock." :p

-Sean <-- ok, ok, that was bad
 
sfleinen said:
Craig:

This is when you're in the woods, you know, "them" woods with trees, and you're doing some outdoorsey activity. Suddenly, you get the urge to go (the squattin' kind), and you go find yourself a tree. But whatever it was you ate last night, you find yourself packed-up worse than Rosie O'Donnell's sink drain after she shaved, and you don't have your laxative with you. So there you are, bracin', squattin', and squeezin' (sounds like a Journey song?), hoping to get that "rock" out.

Hence, "squattin' the rock." :p

-Sean <-- ok, ok, that was bad
Click to expand...

Thanks...I needed that laugh tonight!

Jason
 
To the op fwiw while watching last years Mosconi Cup it occurred to me that the reason most of the side rail & centre table breaks weren't working was because if you watch the incoming breaker when he pulls the trigger he is looking at the object ball last which (only on the break) is fundamentally wrong because the last thing you should be looking at is the cb not the ob, this is why you see the cb landing at the back of the rack because a lot of unwanted spin has been imparted on the cb, the shot should be lined up as normal & after that nothing but the cb is sighted as you know where it will end up leaving you to concentrate on hitting the cb dead centre allowing you to use the pop & drop method of breaking which in turn will stop you running into table traffic.

Just my 2 cents
 
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