Is the 3 Cushion game picking up like the pool game is?

[Bob Jewett]

really wish a few more carom players took the plunge into pool

As to why that would be a good idea, they might show the pool players different and better ways to do shots. Efren was for a while a carom player. He showed the pool players a thing or two.

I've seen Caudron, Sayginer, and Blomdahl play pool. I managed to stay even with Blomdahl at one pocket but didn't have much chance at 14.1.

 

[skogstokig]

Here in Tulsa the only place that has a 3c table is a Mexican joint that's not super anglo-friendly. Used to be a Asian spot where they gambled like crazy but cops finally shut them down.

sounds similar to a snooker room i used to frequent. cheap table rent, no advertising, no liquor license, constant gambling, very few natives. i liked it for some year but physical conflicts were always a possibility, not worth it in the long run

 

[bbb]

As to why that would be a good idea, they might show the pool players different and better ways to do shots. Efren was for a while a carom player. He showed the pool players a thing or two.

I've seen Caudron, Sayginer, and Blomdahl play pool. I managed to stay even with Blomdahl at one pocket but didn't have much chance at 14.1.

i am shocked that blomdahl could beat you at 14.1
i would have bet on you bob as a straight pool champion

 

[skogstokig]

I think carom is still dominant in most South American countries, Korea, Vietnam, and Turkey. I'm not sure what's happening in the rest of Europe.

At one time carom was more popular in the US than pool, at least in certain areas. Willie Hoppe got mentioned in a 1930s movie when one character quizzed another on which form of carom Hoppe had his championships in (balkline, answered correctly, which was pretty good for a girl).

Today in the US, I'd say that carom is primarily a game for the immigrants from South and Central America, Korea, Vietnam, and Mexico. Recently a Turkish guy reopened a room with five tables near me. I've heard of immigrant-run rooms with 10 to 15 10-foot heated tables. If you look at the US National Champions in the past 20 years, few native-born Americans appear:

View attachment 691481
View attachment 691482

does piedrabuena play UMB events? that's some good avgs

 

[Bob Jewett]

does piedrabuena play UMB events? that's some good avgs

He does. He was doing the Korean thing for a while, so he was barred from the UMB and USBA events. He is not doing the Korean thing any more. He played in the Las Vegas World Cup, which just ended. He ended with a 1.1 average.

Seven Americans finished in Las Vegas with averages of 1 or better. That's actually a better showing than in the 1970s when only two or three Americans might hit 1.0 for a tournament, but the rest of the world has moved on to 1.5 to 2.0. Four players in Las Vegas finished with averages of 2.0 or better.

 

[Bob Jewett]

i am shocked that blomdahl could beat you at 14.1
i would have bet on you bob as a straight pool champion

Blomdahl played on a German pool league team I believe. (Pool leagues in Europe are not about swilling beer -- they're about learning and competing.) I don't know what level, but I suspect just below "premiere". He had to play 8, 9 and 14.1, I think. He has played pool as long as carom.

 

[nataddrho]

3 cushion is simultaneously the most fun and most frustrating game there is. The best I ever did was beat a pretty good player a game to 15 pts in 17 or 18 innings. If my 2nd contact ball could be replaced by a baseball, I could be pretty good at that game

18 innings at 15 points is close to a 1.0 average. That is almost world class.

 

[Black-Balled]

It may be because I have only played 3C for maybe 30 hours total, without any real instruction, but I think it's a harder game to get hits at vs making a ball. If you think about it, making an average of 1.0 in 3C is a good player. Making 1 ball a rack in pool is a shitty player LOL.

A good pool player going to 3C I think will do even worse than them going to a snooker table to compete against a decent player in that endeavor.

So take a B pool player, a B 3C player and a B snooker player, if that B pool player plays the other two in a round robin, they are likely to be closer in score to the snooker player than they would be to the 3C player at their game, percentage wise. Just my gut feeling from watching and playing the games.

I feel like I should be qualified to comment and got nothin from my experience.

I messed around with 3c often over the years but have really only been 'playing it' since 2019.

It is pretty awesome to pick it up after you already know what happens when balls move on a table...and then realize you have no idea about how balls move on a table!

 

[nataddrho]

As to why that would be a good idea, they might show the pool players different and better ways to do shots. Efren was for a while a carom player. He showed the pool players a thing or two.

I've seen Caudron, Sayginer, and Blomdahl play pool. I managed to stay even with Blomdahl at one pocket but didn't have much chance at 14.1.

I heard that Sang Lee was horendous at pool. But he never played it. I also didn't know Blomdahl played pool for as long as he played carom.

It is also a myth that Efren was phenomenal at all things carom. He was/is only good, not great as people wish to believe.

It just shows you that you are only good at what you practice.

 

[Bob Jewett]

18 innings at 15 points is close to a 1.0 average. That is almost world class.

Not as a best single-game average especially with a short game. They used to play sets to 15 points in the World Cups. There were many single-inning sets by many players. 15.0 is world class for a 15-point game.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... It is also a myth that Efren was phenomenal at all things carom. He was/is only good, not great as people wish to believe.

He played in a 3C tournament at Chris's when he happened to be in the area. I think he averaged 1.0. He also beat Raymond Ceulemans in an exhibition match of 28.2 balkline. I'm told that cushion caroms (1-cushion) was his preferred game. In any case, I think it's fair to say that he played carom better than any American pool player.

 

[Black-Balled]

As to why that would be a good idea, they might show the pool players different and better ways to do shots. Efren was for a while a carom player. He showed the pool players a thing or two.

I've seen Caudron, Sayginer, and Blomdahl play pool. I managed to stay even with Blomdahl at one pocket but didn't have much chance at 14.1.

Beating kisses, how to quickly gauge how a table is playing, control of everything that moves...

Who needs any of that?!

 

[Black-Balled]

18 innings at 15 points is close to a 1.0 average. That is almost world class.

Especially since he was playing a 'pretty good player'.

I see some pretty decent players play lots and if any of you want bet you run >4 in an hour, let me know!

 

[Poolmanis]

Blomdahl played on a German pool league team I believe. (Pool leagues in Europe are not about swilling beer -- they're about learning and competing.) I don't know what level, but I suspect just below "premiere". He had to play 8, 9 and 14.1, I think. He has played pool as long as carom.

Blomdahl was originally pool player who turned to carom..

 

[Poolmanis]

Especially since he was playing a 'pretty good player'.

I see some pretty decent players play lots and if any of you want bet you run >4 in an hour, let me know!
View attachment 691554

I am interested about that bet..

 

[Sealegs50]

I lived near Boston a few years back and played at a pool hall that had 4 carom tables. The 3C players thought I was a good pool player (I’m not) and I was similarly impressed with their skills at 3C. Some of the guys would try to teach me 3C and I know they meant well. But they were not able to help me make sense of what they were teaching. Seemed that every shot had a different numbering system. I never could link those systems together. I thought about taking lesssons from Mazin Shooni, but figured that if I ever retired back to CT (which I did) there wouldn’t be anybody or anyplace to play.

 

[nataddrho]

I lived near Boston a few years back and played at a pool hall that had 4 carom tables. The 3C players thought I was a good pool player (I’m not) and I was similarly impressed with their skills at 3C. Some of the guys would try to teach me 3C and I know they meant well. But they were not able to help me make sense of what they were teaching. Seemed that every shot had a different numbering system. I never could link those systems together. I thought about taking lesssons from Mazin Shooni, but figured that if I ever retired back to CT (which I did) there wouldn’t be anybody or anyplace to play.

Mazin's is the only place around MA to go. He knows me and has given me a few hour lessons. He has a few practical systems for banks, short angles, etc but mostly wants to see a lot of good development in the stroke, since tip accuracy is so incredibly important compared to everything else.

Ira always tells me (and I agree) that systems in general can be a crutch, and that playing by feel is the best approach.

EDIT:
US 1 Billiards in West Haven, CT has two 10' carom tables. That is Ara's father's place (Jayson's wife), a very friendly man if you ever talk to him. Maybe it's close to you.

 

[Sealegs50]

Mazin's is the only place around MA to go. He knows me and has given me a few hour lessons. He has a few practical systems for banks, short angles, etc but mostly wants to see a lot of good development in the stroke, since tip accuracy is so incredibly important compared to everything else.

Ira always tells me (and I agree) that systems in general can be a crutch, and that playing by feel is the best approach.

EDIT:
US 1 Billiards in West Haven, CT has two 10' carom tables. That is Ara's father's place (Jayson's wife), a very friendly man if you ever talk to him. Maybe it's close to you.

It’s about an hour away, like just about everything else in the state.

 

[nataddrho]

It’s about an hour away, like just about everything else in the state.

I grew up in Vernon, Ellington and South Windsor.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... Seemed that every shot had a different numbering system. I never could link those systems together...

I think systems are well down the list of things you need to learn at 3C if you are just starting.

I think the best way to start is to get Byrne's Standard book, go to the second half (all about 3C), and try each of the shots he shows as examples. Check them off as you feel you have a good idea of how each one works. Recognizing the easy way to play shots is far more important than getting the right numbers on the diamonds.