Is there a secret subculture - an unknown Mosconi Out there?

Unfortunately I can't rememner his name. He was 15 when I played him in Minnesota about a yeat ago. He was from Ohio and there visiting his grandparents.

VERY, VERY solid game. I can only assume that if he sticks with it, he will be one of the top players soon.

If I heard his name, I would recognize it, just can't remember it at the moment.

Russ....
 
Mike Haines said:
Here is an interesting question. Is there a pool subculture you and I don't know anything about lurking in the twilight zone of pool and billiards? There was this guy on U-Tube who plays pool in his basement in his bare feet, kicking the cat when she got in the way of his pool playing, and he is routinely running 120 balls playing straight pool. Are there some great trick shot artists we have never heard anything about? Do these guys just perfect their craft in the basements of their homes and never come to the pool halls or venture beyond u-tube? Granted they don't have the poise and polish of a Johnny Archer, but they seem to learn to do some amazing things on their home pool tables by just hitting balls in their basements. Most of the "good" players I know of who have a table in their home, don't even play on the darn things. These guys spend hours learning fantastic trick shots or running out racks. There may be a Mosconi out there somewhere routinely running 400-500 balls. If he exists, I wish he would come out of the woodwork and make himself known to the world. He probably wears his baseball cap on backwards, likes skateboarding and loud rock concerts more than pool, has a crummy beat up pool cue his dad used to use, but never misses a ball on his own table. He would never even consider gambling or himself a pool hustler. I like to believe there is some 21 year old genius who is hiding out and has hundreds of times strung 10 racks together playing 9ball and just laughs at the champions pondering over a "tough shot" on ESPN. What do you think..........??
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yes there is.
 
I would find it highly unlikely that theres not some natural talent laying around somewhere. Not that he could instantly come out and beat the pros and be #1 but rather a guy that doesnt know what his true top level is. A guy like that with very little seasoning and some confidence could become a top player in short notice.

kind of like when you hear of guy's games raising a ball, 2 or 3 balls just by
striking out on the road.

Honestly right now what incentive does a kid or young adult have to even think twice about how well he happens to play pool with little effort.
 
poolhustler said:
Unfortunately I can't rememner his name. He was 15 when I played him in Minnesota about a yeat ago. He was from Ohio and there visiting his grandparents.

VERY, VERY solid game. I can only assume that if he sticks with it, he will be one of the top players soon.

If I heard his name, I would recognize it, just can't remember it at the moment.

Russ....
Click to expand...
ryan stone ?
 
Finally

frankncali said:
I would find it highly unlikely that theres not some natural talent laying around somewhere. Not that he could instantly come out and beat the pros and be #1 but rather a guy that doesnt know what his true top level is. A guy like that with very little seasoning and some confidence could become a top player in short notice.

kind of like when you hear of guy's games raising a ball, 2 or 3 balls just by
striking out on the road.

Honestly right now what incentive does a kid or young adult have to even think twice about how well he happens to play pool with little effort.
Click to expand...


That's me, that's me, that's me! I am the chosen one. Seasoning and confidence is the dose of experience I need. LOL


Gary
 
pool

Mike Haines said:
Here is an interesting question. Is there a pool subculture you and I don't know anything about lurking in the twilight zone of pool and billiards? There was this guy on U-Tube who plays pool in his basement in his bare feet, kicking the cat when she got in the way of his pool playing, and he is routinely running 120 balls playing straight pool. Are there some great trick shot artists we have never heard anything about? Do these guys just perfect their craft in the basements of their homes and never come to the pool halls or venture beyond u-tube? Granted they don't have the poise and polish of a Johnny Archer, but they seem to learn to do some amazing things on their home pool tables by just hitting balls in their basements. Most of the "good" players I know of who have a table in their home, don't even play on the darn things. These guys spend hours learning fantastic trick shots or running out racks. There may be a Mosconi out there somewhere routinely running 400-500 balls. If he exists, I wish he would come out of the woodwork and make himself known to the world. He probably wears his baseball cap on backwards, likes skateboarding and loud rock concerts more than pool, has a crummy beat up pool cue his dad used to use, but never misses a ball on his own table. He would never even consider gambling or himself a pool hustler. I like to believe there is some 21 year old genius who is hiding out and has hundreds of times strung 10 racks together playing 9ball and just laughs at the champions pondering over a "tough shot" on ESPN. What do you think..........??

we just do not care what you want

we do what we want
Click to expand...
 
I have encountered this exact situation twice in different sports.

I played some pretty serious racquetball during the seventies. I was in a tournament where the top two guys had virtually blown the rest of the competition in the area out so badly, that everyone just expected them to win. The only question was in which order they finished. There was a lot of commotion from the gallery where an unknown player that had lived in the area all his life was playing. Come to find out, this guy had converted an old barn into a court and had been practicing by himself for years. Long story short, he annihilated the top dogs. I never saw or heard of him playing again...

These days, I shoot competition shotgun. Same kind of deal...I get a call from a guy at the shooting range saying you need to come and see this guy shoot. Granted, this guy wasn't shooting under tourney or gambling pressure, but I've watched world champions struggle with shots this guy was shooting FROM THE HIP. Come to find out, he was some kind of Middle East royalty that had just had the resources (and the natural talent) to do this kind of shooting and yet he'd never entered a tournament.

With this era of mass media, I think this will happen less and less, but I've actually got to witness it twice. Pool's no different and I think eventually we'll have it surface. Between prodigies and savants, anything can happen...

Steve

P.S. If you get the chance, check out the four/five year old drummer out on YouTube...
 
i dont think so

i suppose theres someone out there who robs tiger at golf too or who can rob efren at one hole.i dont think so. well if somebody would like to play me pool that nobody in america has ever heard of including myself ill play for a whole lot.now there is gonna be some people who are very good for the fact they have not been around and got seasoning but to suggest they can run 500 and never left home is ridiculous trust me.
 
Hunter said:
I have encountered this exact situation twice in different sports.

I played some pretty serious racquetball during the seventies. I was in a tournament where the top two guys had virtually blown the rest of the competition in the area out so badly, that everyone just expected them to win. The only question was in which order they finished. There was a lot of commotion from the gallery where an unknown player that had lived in the area all his life was playing. Come to find out, this guy had converted an old barn into a court and had been practicing by himself for years. Long story short, he annihilated the top dogs. I never saw or heard of him playing again...

These days, I shoot competition shotgun. Same kind of deal...I get a call from a guy at the shooting range saying you need to come and see this guy shoot. Granted, this guy wasn't shooting under tourney or gambling pressure, but I've watched world champions struggle with shots this guy was shooting FROM THE HIP. Come to find out, he was some kind of Middle East royalty that had just had the resources (and the natural talent) to do this kind of shooting and yet he'd never entered a tournament.

With this era of mass media, I think this will happen less and less, but I've actually got to witness it twice. Pool's no different and I think eventually we'll have it surface. Between prodigies and savants, anything can happen...

Steve

P.S. If you get the chance, check out the four/five year old drummer out on YouTube...
Click to expand...
Yep, your post gives evidence for the possibility of this happening, however unlikely it may be in a particular sport. Nice post!
 
It's one thing to be an unknown Mosconi and string racks together in your basement, it's another thing to be that same player and play with pressure on you whether being a tournament or gambling. The atmosphere makes a huge difference. It's so much pressure playing in front of a crowd! Unless a the unknown Mosconi has nerves of steel, I doubt that his could/would happen.

Of course, in my own eyes, I am the unknown Mosconi:eek: :D :p :o ;) :rolleyes: :( NOT!
 
john schmidt said:
i suppose theres someone out there who robs tiger at golf too or who can rob efren at one hole.i dont think so. well if somebody would like to play me pool that nobody in america has ever heard of including myself ill play for a whole lot.now there is gonna be some people who are very good for the fact they have not been around and got seasoning but to suggest they can run 500 and never left home is ridiculous trust me.
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John, thanks for your reply! Your status as a pool player gives added weight to your opinion on this question. By the way, this thread started when Mike Haines posed the question to me about an "unknown Mosconi" in an email. I thought it was an interesting question and encouraged him to post it on AZ.

As has been pointed out by others in this thread, the chance that a "practice champion," who may play great in his basement, could snap off a big tournament is remote at best. Most of us know that doing well in tough tournaments or money matches takes BOTH physical skills AND mental toughness or seasoning and developing the mental side of this equation is unlikely (impossible?) with only solitary practice. As I said in an earlier post in this thread, the only way I can imagine an unknown popping up to win a big tournament, or a money match with you, would be if the unknown were, for some reason, immune to the pressures of tournament competition or gambling matches. And how could that happen? I suggested that it might happen if the unknown player had a mental disorder such as autism, where they were absolutely indifferent to the reactions and opinions of those around them. Imagine, if you will, a pool playing savant who spends his days running hundreds in the solitude of his basement game room. Perhaps like those known musical savants who, though subnormal in intelligence, have been known to play a musical selection flawlessly after hearing it once. So we have this imaginary "Rainman" pool player who might even have been exposed to Accu-Stat videos of championship pool and who is drawing their rock three rails to nail the perfect angle on their next shot and running hundreds. Granted, it is a VERY far fetched idea, but is it impossible? Well, that's the question, isn't it? And John, if I run across this "unknown Mosconi," I'll let you be the test case. If he can beat you a few games of straight pool, we will go in together and make a fortune with this guy!:D
 
hilla_hilla said:
It's one thing to be an unknown Mosconi and string racks together in your basement, it's another thing to be that same player and play with pressure on you whether being a tournament or gambling. The atmosphere makes a huge difference. It's so much pressure playing in front of a crowd! Unless a the unknown Mosconi has nerves of steel, I doubt that his could/would happen.

Of course, in my own eyes, I am the unknown Mosconi:eek: :D :p :o ;) :rolleyes: :( NOT!
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Good point, but see me reply to John Schmidt.
 
BillPorter said:
John, thanks for your reply! Your status as a pool player gives added weight to your opinion on this question. By the way, this thread started when Mike Haines posed the question to me about an "unknown Mosconi" in an email. I thought it was an interesting question and encouraged him to post it on AZ.

As has been pointed out by others in this thread, the chance that a "practice champion," who may play great in his basement, could snap off a big tournament is remote at best. Most of us know that doing well in tough tournaments or money matches takes BOTH physical skills AND mental toughness or seasoning and developing the mental side of this equation is unlikely (impossible?) with only solitary practice. As I said in an earlier post in this thread, the only way I can imagine an unknown popping up to win a big tournament, or a money match with you, would be if the unknown were, for some reason, immune to the pressures of tournament competition or gambling matches. And how could that happen? I suggested that it might happen if the unknown player had a mental disorder such as autism, where they were absolutely indifferent to the reactions and opinions of those around them. Imagine, if you will, a pool playing savant who spends his days running hundreds in the solitude of his basement game room. Perhaps like those known musical savants who, though subnormal in intelligence, have been known to play a musical selection flawlessly after hearing it once. So we have this imaginary "Rainman" pool player who might even have been exposed to Accu-Stat videos of championship pool and who is drawing their rock three rails to nail the perfect angle on their next shot and running hundreds. Granted, it is a VERY far fetched idea, but is it impossible? Well, that's the question, isn't it? And John, if I run across this "unknown Mosconi," I'll let you be the test case. If he can beat you a few games of straight pool, we will go in together and make a fortune with this guy!:D
Click to expand...

Remember Cesar Morales in Houston. Not exactly the same thing, but he was unknown to everyone in the U.S. back then (at least what he looked like).
 
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I think I told this story on here before. When I had my poolroom in NY in the early 1970's there was a guy about twenty-one years old that played in my room. My Dad had taught him how to play when he was about 16. He never left the room, never played for more than time and a coke, but would almost always run 50 in a race to 100. I had seen him run 70 to 90 a lot of times on a super tight table.

So I take him down the road to Bayshore Billiards ant stake him for $100 in a race to 100. He couldn't run three balls in a row. Damn practice champion was all he was. Johnnyt
 
Pool

Mike Haines said:
Here is an interesting question. Is there a pool subculture you and I don't know anything about lurking in the twilight zone of pool and billiards? There was this guy on U-Tube who plays pool in his basement in his bare feet, kicking the cat when she got in the way of his pool playing, and he is routinely running 120 balls playing straight pool. Are there some great trick shot artists we have never heard anything about? Do these guys just perfect their craft in the basements of their homes and never come to the pool halls or venture beyond u-tube? Granted they don't have the poise and polish of a Johnny Archer, but they seem to learn to do some amazing things on their home pool tables by just hitting balls in their basements. Most of the "good" players I know of who have a table in their home, don't even play on the darn things. These guys spend hours learning fantastic trick shots or running out racks. There may be a Mosconi out there somewhere routinely running 400-500 balls. If he exists, I wish he would come out of the woodwork and make himself known to the world. He probably wears his baseball cap on backwards, likes skateboarding and loud rock concerts more than pool, has a crummy beat up pool cue his dad used to use, but never misses a ball on his own table. He would never even consider gambling or himself a pool hustler. I like to believe there is some 21 year old genius who is hiding out and has hundreds of times strung 10 racks together playing 9ball and just laughs at the champions pondering over a "tough shot" on ESPN. What do you think..........??
Click to expand...
THIS IS YOUR SECOND FORAY INTO YOUR QUEST FOR UNKNOWN PLAYERS. GIVE IT A REST.
 
pool

BillPorter said:
I understand that you value the ability to play under tournament or money pressure more highly than a guy in his basement who might be running hundreds by himself. But Mike's original question is still interesting. Might there be people out there whose physical skills on a pool table are on a par or even beyond the physical skills of tournament and/or back room champions? NO
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