Is there really a "right" way to play (re: form, technique)?

inside_english

inside_english

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have been around pool for a while (20+ years) and have seen and heard more than my fair share. My game is weak, in my opinion, but I am only a weekend warrior. There are several books, tapes, etc. telling us how to play "the best" pool. We are all familiar with these.

My question is this:
Is there a "one-size fits all" technique that is suitable for everyone?
You hear people say things like:

I wish I had (insert pro here) stroke/break etc.

Take a look at the pros.
Efren's stroke is different from Earl's, which different from Allison Fisher's, which is different from Buddy Hall's, which is different from Rempe's/McCready etc.

Ralf has solid, beautiful technique and fundamentals, but his game is clearly different from Earl's, or Tony Drago's.

My point is no two pros appear to be alike, except for some areas in technique.

So who is "right?"

Does it not boil down to doing what is "right for you", which could be interpreted as catering to your height, weight, body type, vision, physical ability?

In the past year I have had someone tell me my bridge is too short. In the same month another player told me that I seem to be in a slump and I should shorten my bridge!

I agree there are several "rules" we must follow to achieve proper technique and consistent success...but there does not seem to be a right way to play that is cookie-cutter for all.

If you told someone you were tyring to mimic or aspire to play like Ralf, Efren, Ronnie Alcano, Alex, Allison, Earl, Rempe, Buddy, Mike Sigel, Nick Varner...they would probably commend you...yet all of these players have very different styles.

Can you imagine suggesting to McCready he should never have a sidearm stroke, or telling Rempe his bridge should be longer, or telling Bustamante he should not have the tip of his stick touch the table two inches before the cue ball, or telling Earl...well...anything at all?

So my point is that in my opinion, you need to observe some fundamentals and then adapt to a stick and body position that is right for YOU. I think physical comfort is a huge part, if not everything, when related to stance. Shawn Putnam is bigger and taller than myself, but I am very uncomfortable getting as low on a shot as he does.

Anyway, very interested in feedback on this.
 
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I agree wholeheartedly with you. Each player has his or her own playing style that is based on what he or she feels comfortable with. I don't like banking very much so I cut the ball when I have a chance. I'm working on improving my banking skills though. I think it's important to be a well-rounded player. You don't want to be known for being incredibly strong in one area of your game but on the other hand incredibly weak in another area. For example,a strictly run out player will be very aggressive but might not be as great shooting defense. This applies to different types of billiard games as well. Shoot a variety of other games as well: one pocket,straight pool,snooker,carom. Each game will help you improve and potentially help you win by seeing something your opponent missed.
 
If there was one common factor that all good players have, I would say when they are ready to hit the cue ball they accelerate from the top of their swing until they strike the cue ball. It's no different than a great baseball pitchers windup then accelerating before the release of the ball to the plate.
 
Another thing they all have in common. They have found a consistent, repeatable stroke that they use on every shot. Consistency comes from doing the same things the same way every time.
We have had considerable success in pool school because that is the primary focus of what we do. Over the years, we have come up with some very simple, yet very effective methods to help students achieve that kind of consistency.
Now, here's the important part. We can have 10 students in the class, teach each one of them the exact same things, and at the end of the class, watch their video and see 10 different individuals that each look a little bit different, yet all incorporating the principles taught in the class.

It's not about trying to copy someone else. It's about taking proven fundamentals, and incorporating them into your game in such a way that you end up with the same thing all of those pros have...a consistent, repeatable stroke and routine.

Steve
 
pooltchr said:
Another thing they all have in common. They have found a consistent, repeatable stroke that they use on every shot. Consistency comes from doing the same things the same way every time.
We have had considerable success in pool school because that is the primary focus of what we do. Over the years, we have come up with some very simple, yet very effective methods to help students achieve that kind of consistency.
Now, here's the important part. We can have 10 students in the class, teach each one of them the exact same things, and at the end of the class, watch their video and see 10 different individuals that each look a little bit different, yet all incorporating the principles taught in the class.

It's not about trying to copy someone else. It's about taking proven fundamentals, and incorporating them into your game in such a way that you end up with the same thing all of those pros have...a consistent, repeatable stroke and routine.

Steve
Click to expand...

You sound like a great teacher. I had someone trying to teach me a particular break the other day and I just could not repeat it. He claimed I was stubborn and just would not listen but the truth is that I did not feel comfortable with the way he was trying to make me cue and the speed and method he broke. I play completely different than him which probably accounted for my failure to reliably copy his technique.
 
inside_english said:
I have been around pool for a while (20+ years) and have seen and heard more than my fair share. My game is weak, in my opinion, but I am only a weekend warrior. There are several books, tapes, etc. telling us how to play "the best" pool. We are all familiar with these.

My question is this:
Is there a "one-size fits all" technique that is suitable for everyone?
You hear people say things like:

I wish I had (insert pro here) stroke/break etc.

Take a look at the pros.
Efren's stroke is different from Earl's, which different from Allison Fisher's, which is different from Buddy Hall's, which is different from Rempe's/McCready etc.

Ralf has solid, beautiful technique and fundamentals, but his game is clearly different from Earl's, or Tony Drago's.

My point is no two pros appear to be alike, except for some areas in technique.

So who is "right?"

Does it not boil down to doing what is "right for you", which could be interpreted as catering to your height, weight, body type, vision, physical ability?

In the past year I have had someone tell me my bridge is too short. In the same month another player told me that I seem to be in a slump and I should shorten my bridge!

I agree there are several "rules" we must follow to achieve proper technique and consistent success...but there does not seem to be a right way to play that is cookie-cutter for all.

If you told someone you were tyring to mimic or aspire to play like Ralf, Efren, Ronnie Alcano, Alex, Allison, Earl, Rempe, Buddy, Mike Sigel, Nick Varner...they would probably commend you...yet all of these players have very different styles.

Can you imagine suggesting to McCready he should never have a sidearm stroke, or telling Rempe his bridge should be longer, or telling Bustamante he should not have the tip of his stick touch the table two inches before the cue ball, or telling Earl...well...anything at all?

So my point is that is my opinion, you need to observe some fundamentals and then adapt to a stick and body position that is right for YOU. I think physical comfort is a huge part, if not everything, when related to stance. Shawn Putnam is bigger and taller than myself, but I am very uncomfortable getting as low on a shot as he does.

Anyway, very interested in feedback on this.
Click to expand...

i think the best line i've ever heard on this topic is said over and over again during commentary of pro matches. the line goes something like this, "you'll notice that -insert players name here- -insert topic here (ie. break, stroke, stance, bridge)- isn't the same as anyone (or everyone) else, but it works for them. the thing you have to remember is that -insert name- plays 8 to 10 hours a day everyday and has been playing for -insert number of years here-so what would be a fulty mechanic for everyone else works for them"
and i really believe that this is true. in your post you mentioned a great name - keith mccready. that wicked looking side stroke he has isn't in any book or video out there and if any of us regular players went to take a lesson it might be the first thing the instructor tried to correct, but keith has played that way forever and with him that stroke is devastating. it's the same in all sports, a knuckle ball or sidearm pitcher, a quarteback with an orthodox release, or a golfer with a swing that doesn't quite conform, none of them may be text book, but they all may have great success. it comes from repition and muscle memory. so i don't think there's a "right" way to do things, i just think there are more orthodox ways that can help those of us who don't play 8 hours a day for 15 years be more successful in our pursuit. i think it really is an individual basis.
 
Good thread I think the "fundamental" style exists because the author doesn't know who (I'm sure he assumes it's not a pro or even a top player) reads the book. These fundamentals best apply to those of us who don't play pool 4-7 days a week. Billy Incardona said something to the effect of on a accu-stats tape (Rodney Morris def Tony Ellin) that if you have a unorthodox stroke it takes a lot of maintenance.

To take a stab at what's the same or different for "normal" shots. I think pro's get away with what's considered unorthodox because they have put time into "their" style. When they're "off" they look just as bad as anyone. I watched a match some years ago between Nick Varner and Buddy Hall (hard to find two pro's with better fundamentals) they both missed several shots apiece and were soon out of the tournament.

Bridge: They are all stable but not the same. A book will tell you its disaster to raise the heel of your hand off the table but pro's always do it for some shots. Bridge length for almost every (I can't think of one under 10") pro is over 10 inches but the book says 6-8 inches. I wonder if that's part of Earl's recent troubles older videos show a much shorter length now it must be almost 20 inches long.

Grip: They are mostly "light" I've never heard of one use a tight grip. Placement typically at the end but Nick Varner's was forward (probably due to height).

Stance: All balanced, but its pot lock with front foot placement. Rear foot usually under the cue.
 
One more reason I think there's so many different strokes in pool is like golf was maybe 20 years ago for PGA players.

There were instructors but most golfers adopted a style that worked and practiced until they could repeat it. Now try to tell the difference between most golfers . Fuzzy Zoeller said you could look down the course and know who it was now they mostly look the same.

Until pool gains a means to money like pro golf professional pool instruction (while good) will always lag behind behind. Europeans being the difference sounds like most of them have access to pro instruction and use it.

Most people learn pool goofing around and until they have access to better players/instructors they have a long way ahead. When I hear somebody became "great" in only 2-3 years they didn't learn in their basement or the local bar league somebody (great) taught them directly or by observation.
 
Yes, there is only one way to play pool at a high skill level. That way is "what's right for you". Find an SPF Instructor and let him guide you through the SPF program and you will find yourself....SPF=randyg
 
randyg said:
Yes, there is only one way to play pool at a high skill level. That way is "what's right for you". Find an SPF Instructor and let him guide you through the SPF program and you will find yourself....SPF=randyg
Click to expand...
What's SPF, and aren't you NYC Cue Dude?
 
inside_english said:
What's SPF, and aren't you NYC Cue Dude?
Click to expand...

SPF=set, pause, finish. the essensen of the repeatable stroke

randyg-outstanding pool instructor, co developer of texas express rules

NYC cue dude-well off pool dilettante, who has a history using person monies to fund tournaments

brian-banger wannabe
 
Look, listen, and study a person with a proven repeatable stroke. Use what works for you. One mans trash is another man's treasure. It all depends on what it means to you.
 
pocketspeed said:
SPF=set, pause, finish. the essensen of the repeatable stroke

randyg-outstanding pool instructor, co developer of texas express rules

NYC cue dude-well off pool dilettante, who has a history using person monies to fund tournaments

brian-banger wannabe
Click to expand...
Thanks....
 
I agree with pooltcher here. It's really all about discovering who YOU are, and what your "style" is. To do that you have to define what you want your "process" to be. That can be difficult for a lot of folks. That's why we always start with a video evaluation of what a person is doing now...without any changes, directions, suggestions or the like. We want to see what each person does as a "default". Then we examine it in slow motion/stop-action video, looking at the good points, and examining things that may prevent the student from being as consistent as they'd like to be. After that, the STUDENT (with our assistance) makes the choices on what to change, and how to "create" their own "perfect process". Once you have defined what you want that process to be, the important factor, is practicing it correctly, for enough time, that it begins to take the place of what you used to do. Once the new process becomes a solid habit, it will eventually be like you never played any other way. That is the ultimate goal for the student. I call it "riding the bike with no hands"...a perfectly choreographed and coordinated series of thoughts and actions, that produce an accurate and repeatable result...on every shot, every time! :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

pooltchr said:
Another thing they all have in common. They have found a consistent, repeatable stroke that they use on every shot. Consistency comes from doing the same things the same way every time.
We have had considerable success in pool school because that is the primary focus of what we do. Over the years, we have come up with some very simple, yet very effective methods to help students achieve that kind of consistency.
Now, here's the important part. We can have 10 students in the class, teach each one of them the exact same things, and at the end of the class, watch their video and see 10 different individuals that each look a little bit different, yet all incorporating the principles taught in the class.

It's not about trying to copy someone else. It's about taking proven fundamentals, and incorporating them into your game in such a way that you end up with the same thing all of those pros have...a consistent, repeatable stroke and routine.

Steve
Click to expand...
 
Scott Lee said:
I agree with pooltcher here. It's really all about discovering who YOU are, and what your "style" is. To do that you have to define what you want your "process" to be. That can be difficult for a lot of folks. That's why we always start with a video evaluation of what a person is doing now...without any changes, directions, suggestions or the like. We want to see what each person does as a "default". Then we examine it in slow motion/stop-action video, looking at the good points, and examining things that may prevent the student from being as consistent as they'd like to be. After that, the STUDENT (with our assistance) makes the choices on what to change, and how to "create" their own "perfect process". Once you have defined what you want that process to be, the important factor, is practicing it correctly, for enough time, that it begins to take the place of what you used to do. Once the new process becomes a solid habit, it will eventually be like you never played any other way. That is the ultimate goal for the student. I call it "riding the bike with no hands"...a perfectly choreographed and coordinated series of thoughts and actions, that produce an accurate and repeatable result...on every shot, every time! :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...
Just checked out your website. When are you coming through Maryland?
 
Even in the fairly uniformed world of snooker you can find deviating styles, players who don't look like Davis(Steve or Joe) clones.

Different styles are needed due to different body types. So I would say that I agree with the OP.

But this can be perilous advice I think for the self taught player. A lot of people use the "It's MY style" or "It works for me" statement as an excuse to ignore poor mechanics. I think it is very important to have an instructor to help you determine the difference between what works for you, and what is simply poor mechanics.

Bustamante's wavy stroke works for him because he made it repeatable after who knows how many hours of practice and competition. But for the weekend C player, it's bad mechanics.
 
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