Is this a real 1-pocket rule or what?

Rack’em said:
Here are my two thoughts on this topic. I have played thousands of games of one pocket over the years, and this scenario has never happened to me. #2. If it's true that when you accidentally touch the cue ball when you have ball in hand behind the line, that your opponent will then have ball in hand, well that is a stupid rule and should be changed. Because there is no other scenario in one pocket other than a cue ball scratching that gives your opponent ball in hand, and this should be no exception. So the good part is that this type of scenario is super rare, and like any other game of pool, you and your opponent can agree to some common sense rules.
Click to expand...
this is the way to interpret the situation
the onepocket,org rules say this(bolded parts by me for emphasis)
6.3 Cue ball after a foul: Following either a pocket scratch or the cue ball jumping the table, the incoming player has cue ball in hand. Following any other standard foul, the cue ball is played where it lies.
and this
Unless clearly contradicted below, general pocket billiards rules of play and conduct apply to One Pocket, and complete General Rules & Regulations are available from the World Pool-Billiard Association (WPA) or the Billiard Congress of America.
.....................................................................
the rule 6.3 clearly contradicts the straight pool rule and would/should be the rule followed in a onepocket match
@Bob Jewett agree?
 
bbb said:
this is the way to interpret the situation
the onepocket,org rules say this(bolded parts by me for emphasis)
6.3 Cue ball after a foul: Following either a pocket scratch or the cue ball jumping the table, the incoming player has cue ball in hand. Following any other standard foul, the cue ball is played where it lies.
and this
Unless clearly contradicted below, general pocket billiards rules of play and conduct apply to One Pocket, and complete General Rules & Regulations are available from the World Pool-Billiard Association (WPA) or the Billiard Congress of America.
.....................................................................
the rule 6.3 clearly contradicts the straight pool rule and would/should be the rule followed in a onepocket match
@Bob Jewett agree?
Click to expand...
Good call Larry. In the OP’s post the opponent plays the CB from where it sits after the accidental tap. It would be ball in hand only if it was deemed unsportsmanlike conduct.
 
Bob Jewett said:
It has to remain in hand. Put the cue ball in a corner hook. Tap it very lightly. Nasty and not allowed. The cue ball has to be driven over the line to lose "in hand" status.
Click to expand...
The way I read WPA 6.11, bad play with BIH. It’s either unsportsmanlike conduct or BIH for opponent BTL.
 
Rack’em said:
Here are my two thoughts on this topic. I have played thousands of games of one pocket over the years, and this scenario has never happened to me. #2. If it's true that when you accidentally touch the cue ball when you have ball in hand behind the line, that your opponent will then have ball in hand, well that is a stupid rule and should be changed. Because there is no other scenario in one pocket other than a cue ball scratching that gives your opponent ball in hand, and this should be no exception. So the good part is that this type of scenario is super rare, and like any other game of pool, you and your opponent can agree to some common sense rules.
Click to expand...
There’s so many cheaters in pool it’s ridiculous. That’s one reason they had to come up with ridiculous rules🤣 I remember when I was first learning 1P my opponent wedged the CB against the facing, I didn’t know the rules at the time so I tried shooting out of the corner hook😢
 
Ironic
jtompilot said:
There’s so many cheaters in pool it’s ridiculous. That’s one reason they had to come up with ridiculous rules🤣 I remember when I was first learning 1P my opponent wedged the CB against the facing, I didn’t know the rules at the time so I tried shooting out of the corner hook
Click to expand...
I didn't know corner hooking someone was illegal? Because corner hooking someone is exactly how everyone plays, and is a strategy that is used all the time. Especially after you pocket a ball that's sitting in the mouth of your opponents pocket. As a matter of fact it's not uncommon after someone is corner hooked for them to just barely touch the cue ball and take the intentional foul, and then leave you corner hooked as well. We do play 3 foul, so eventually the 1st person who fouled will try to get the ball out of the corner hook.
 
Rack’em said:
I didn't know corner hooking someone was illegal?
Click to expand...

It's usually not - but it is illegal/unsportsmanlike to corner hook somebody in an uptable pocket when you've got ball in hand.

Legal hit or not (typically it was done with a bad hit)
 
Bob Jewett said:
It has to remain in hand. Put the cue ball in a corner hook. Tap it very lightly. Nasty and not allowed. The cue ball has to be driven over the line to lose "in hand" status.
Click to expand...
I didn’t read the whole thread so someone may have said this, but in that corner hook situation can’t you just tap it and take the same foul? Doesn’t seem like it would be advantageous to the first guy so why not allow it
 
freds said:
It's usually not - but it is illegal/unsportsmanlike to corner hook somebody in an uptable pocket when you've got ball in hand.

Legal hit or not (typically it was done with a bad hit)
Click to expand...

freds said:
It's usually not - but it is illegal/unsportsmanlike to corner hook somebody in an uptable pocket when you've got ball in hand.

Legal hit or not (typically it was done with a bad hit)
Click to expand...
Yes we intentionally corner hook someone and that's considered fair play. We don't view it as unsportsmanlike.
 
highkarate said:
I didn’t read the whole thread so someone may have said this, but in that corner hook situation can’t you just tap it and take the same foul? Doesn’t seem like it would be advantageous to the first guy so why not allow it
Click to expand...
Suppose you are on the first foul and now you are corner hooked on all balls. If the cheap corner hook was allowed, it would often be the best play after your opponent scratches.
 
The illegal stroke double hit corner hook usually comes up when a hanging ball is tapped in, and the cb is left in or near the jaws. It doesn't even matter who does it first, it can be the best move (if a legal stroke is used) regardless if someone is already on a foul or not, depending how the rest of the balls are laying and what the score is.

It could also come up with a true BIH shot after a pocket scratch, but I've personally never ever seen anyone do that. I suppose the rule about driving the CB past the headstrong completely prevents that.

Anyway, back to the thread topic, if I was playing one hole, tapped the CB by mistake during my warmup stroke when I had BIH behind the line, and the opponent said he now has BIH instead of playing it where it is, I'd quit on the spot and not pay anything.

I think most one pocket players would do the same thing.
 
bbb said:
this is the way to interpret the situation
the onepocket,org rules say this(bolded parts by me for emphasis)
6.3 Cue ball after a foul: Following either a pocket scratch or the cue ball jumping the table, the incoming player has cue ball in hand. Following any other standard foul, the cue ball is played where it lies.
and this
Unless clearly contradicted below, general pocket billiards rules of play and conduct apply to One Pocket, and complete General Rules & Regulations are available from the World Pool-Billiard Association (WPA) or the Billiard Congress of America.
.....................................................................
the rule 6.3 clearly contradicts the straight pool rule and would/should be the rule followed in a onepocket match
@Bob Jewett agree?
Click to expand...
You can only "interpret the situation" that way if you choose to ignore this:
6.11 Bad Play from Behind the Head String
When the cue ball is in hand behind the head string, and the first ball the cue ball contacts is also behind the head string, the shot is a foul unless the cue ball crosses the head string before that contact. If such a shot is intentional, it is unsportsmanlike conduct. The cue ball must either cross the head string or contact a ball in front of or on the head string or the shot is a foul, and the cue ball is in hand for the following player according to the rules of the specific game. If such shot is intentional, it is also unsportsmanlike conduct.
Click to expand...
I had a similar situation recently where my opponent deliberately fouled inside the kitchen with BIH. The rule above applies to this situation as well.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Suppose you are on the first foul and now you are corner hooked on all balls. If the cheap corner hook was allowed, it would often be the best play after your opponent scratches.
Click to expand...
I don't view it as a cheap move. You're basically in a chess game and sometimes you make a sacrifice, or force your opponent to sacrifice one of their pieces to gain eventual advantage. And when left corner hooked you can take the intentional foul and leave your opponent hooked, and make him take a foul as well, or you can risk selling out trying to kick at a ball while you are hooked. It all depends on what the score is in the game, and how the balls are laying if you try kicking at something, and how many balls you risk selling out while trying to kick at something. You can only foul twice before being forced to go for something.
 
I think the corner hook thing only applies if you trap the ball against the facing.
And it's even more egregious with ball in hand, obviously.
OP asked for the rule. Not whether it should be ignored or not. :LOL:
 
Rack’em said:
I don't view it as a cheap move. ...
Click to expand...
I think the vast majority of one pocket players disagree with you.

The same situation comes up at 14.1, where after your opponent scratches, all the balls are unlikely. If you place him in the head pocket corner hook, he is more or less guaranteed to foul or sell out. I have never seen a 14.1 player try that corner hook. There is in fact a rule against it.
 
Rack’em said:
Ironic

I didn't know corner hooking someone was illegal? Because corner hooking someone is exactly how everyone plays, and is a strategy that is used all the time. Especially after you pocket a ball that's sitting in the mouth of your opponents pocket. As a matter of fact it's not uncommon after someone is corner hooked for them to just barely touch the cue ball and take the intentional foul, and then leave you corner hooked as well. We do play 3 foul, so eventually the 1st person who fouled will try to get the ball out of the corner hook.
Click to expand...
It’s illegal to hold the tip against the CB to keep it frozen to the cushion. That’s what I’m talking about. Corner hooking someone on a legal stroke is a fine shot.
 
alphadog said:
Not with bih in the kitchen.
Click to expand...
You could press it in there and then foul it. Which, this is all redundant already. I'm glad I never got that far into one hole.

Intentionals minus 5 dialed back to taste (except only minus 1) or ball in hand on all fouls. I think Ronnie Allen gravitated to ball in hand one pocket. 3rd hand claim.
 
that is exactly why you cant have a shot begin before the cue ball crosses the line. you can call a foul but he still then shoots if you so desire. or you get ball in hand. that rules then needs to be in effect.

other wise he can place it in a corner hook and take a scratch and force you to also take one. suppose you need one and he needs two or three. having you needing two is better for him.

it can never come up gambling as gambling both need to agree on rulings unless they agree to have someone come and make a ruling , which often happens on close calls.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top