Is this considered conceding?

Zirroe

Zirroe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Okay so I just got back from my weekly wednesday night tournament and I'm in the hot seat match. I am up 2 to 0 in a race to three and I start to break and run the final rack. I get straight in on the 9 ball but on the wrong side so I go to grab a bridge. As I proceed to obtain the bridge my opponent leans his cue down and walks outside. I still shoot but I missed. Now I go outside to tell my opoenent that I missed but by him leaving the building is that not considered conceding? My oppenent told me he just went out to smoke, but he gave me no warning. Now I never tried to tell him that he forfeited I just warned him not to do that again because that is considered quitting. I think he took offense to it, because he told me "Oh yea in what tournaments?" I told him in all tournaments. Now he took offense because he works in the biggest pool hall in the area. The tournament director was not very experienced so they had no answer to the matter. But my only question is if the oppoenent leaves the building during a match and does not tell me anything, is that considered a forfeit?

Incase you were all wondering he made the 9 that I missed. He started to break and run the next rack and he got bad on the 9 ball, he missed the 9 and left me straight in then he threw the game by approaching me with his handshake.
I'm glad that this happened with a friend. I just want to know if it is a forfeit incase it ever comes up again.
 
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The rules have to made clear at any tournament before the event starts, if the TD did not declare that the players could not take breaks during matches then thats where the problem started. Then the next problem is when breaks are allowed, and then if they have to be declared. He did not forfiet the match by walking outside to smoke if that was not directed to all players a foul or forfiet beforehand. Rules can't be made up as the tourney goes along.
 
Normally, you can only take a break if it's your turn at the table right? I don't know really, my gut-feeling says it's a forfeit when your opponent walks out when you're on the final ball, just like it was when he approached you with his hand out.

gr. Dave
 
It's standard pool etiquette that you arent supposed to leave the table when it's your opponent's turn, unless you inform him/her. IMO it should be loss of game if you are playing in an upscale tournament setting.
 
He left the table intending for you to not shoot until he returned and it was, imo, a sharking move. If you had made the 9 what would he have said? That he didn't see it... you shouldn't have shot while he was gone? Shark move.
 
JimS said:
He left the table intending for you to not shoot until he returned and it was, imo, a sharking move. If you had made the 9 what would he have said? That he didn't see it... you shouldn't have shot while he was gone? Shark move.
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I see three potential issues here:
1. Conceding the game (by walking outside while the game is in progress).
2. Delay of game (by walking outside while the game is in progress).
3. Unsportsmanlike conduct (by walking outside while the game is in progress).

I'd be interested in knowing what the BCA rules say about items 1-3 above.
 
It should be viewed as a concession. Leaving the tournament area especially when your opponent is on the deciding 9 ball (I doubt so anyone would want to do that in a big tournament) is almost tantamount to unscrewing your playcue and shaking hands. Players' responsibility and sportmanship.
 
Rack

The minute he walked outside I would put all the balls at the end of the table so that when he came back he knew it was his turn to rack.

I wouldn't have said a dang word, and I wouldn't have shot the 9.

To me when he walked of he was saying, oh well I already lost this game.

It was definately a shark move!

I think that is total B/S and I wouldn't have stood for it.

If you wanted to do anything you should have gone to the director and told him what happened and he could have made the decision.
 
I would have called the Tournament Director and let him make the call. Unless he pulls balls out of the pockets, goes to shake your hand, or breaks his cue down, I wouldn't necessarily consider it a concession, however, I would give the player the courtesy of telling him I need a break, but again, only when it is my shot. Or, if I need to leave, I would tell him to either go ahead and shoot if I trust him, or ask for the break and lay my cue on the table. It was definintely a sharking move on the 9 ball of the potentially losing rack. Just like time-outs in football when a game winning field goal is needed. What was the guy doing outside? I can't believe he couldn't wait 20 whole seconds for you to take your shot before leaving.
 
cuenut said:
I would have called the Tournament Director and let him make the call. Unless he pulls balls out of the pockets, goes to shake your hand, or breaks his cue down, I wouldn't necessarily consider it a concession, however, I would give the player the courtesy of telling him I need a break, but again, only when it is my shot. Or, if I need to leave, I would tell him to either go ahead and shoot if I trust him, or ask for the break and lay my cue on the table. It was definintely a sharking move on the 9 ball of the potentially losing rack. Just like time-outs in football when a game winning field goal is needed. What was the guy doing outside? I can't believe he couldn't wait 20 whole seconds for you to take your shot before leaving.
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Well, probably Marlboro..Salem..or Dunhill..
 
txplshrk said:
The minute he walked outside I would put all the balls at the end of the table so that when he came back he knew it was his turn to rack.

I wouldn't have said a dang word, and I wouldn't have shot the 9.

To me when he walked of he was saying, oh well I already lost this game.

It was definately a shark move!

I think that is total B/S and I wouldn't have stood for it.

If you wanted to do anything you should have gone to the director and told him what happened and he could have made the decision.
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I like this answer the best. You made a mistake by shooting at the 9. That acknowledges that you are taking your turn regardless of your opponent's actions.

If you had related this accounting to me after you shot the 9, I would have ruled it a missed ball. If you had asked me before shooting, I would have declared it a forfeited game to you.
 
concession

In a tournament, and this is announced in special tournaments, you have to notify your opponent if you need a break, and it is understood to be the same for smaller weekly tournaments. It comes under sportsmanship.

Leaving the building while playing in a tournament without notifying your opponent is loss of game unless it is an emergency, and then only permitted an allowable amount of time per the tournament director. Now since smoking is only permitted outside, yes, it would be a concession because he did not notify you beforehand, and not on his turn.

Break-in breaks are only permitted for calls of nature that can not wait or emergencies.

It was definately a sharking move.
 
Zirroe said:
I am up 2 to 0 in a race to three and I start to break and run the final rack. I get straight in on the 9 ball but on the wrong side so I go to grab a bridge. As I proceed to obtain the bridge my opponent leans his cue down and walks outside. I still shoot but I missed.
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Let's not forget that this is a race to three and Zirroe is on the hill shooting a straight in nine. It seems to me, that everyone watching assumed Zirroe was going to make the nine ball, including the two combatants. Although it appeared to be a shark move, and done in bad taste, I believe the opponent just didn't want to see the final nine made during this three game skunking.

Is this a forfeit? Well, I believe it is only if it was stipulated that you cannot leave the table during your opponent's turn. If maybe you're thinking, well it's unsportsmanlike conduct, it is and most major events such as the US Open, Derby City, etc. would issue a warning for such an offense.

Bottom line is, if the shot had been made, this thread would probably not exist. As disturbing as his actions were, the opponent was guilty of a lack of ethics more than sharking. I think he knew that this was a final shot and he didn't want to be there to see it. No excuse for this, just my take.

Congratulations on your win.

Gene

PS Make the straight in. ;)
 
Can't wait for you to shoot the nine before going out for a smoke? Yeah right. He was sharking you.
 
He's definitely conceding the game and it is a forfeit.

I had another weird concession last weekend. The gal I was playing said, "Good game" when she gave me BIH on a wired 8/9 combo when I was on the hill. I asked her if she was conceding the game and she said no, so I was just going to go ahead and shoot it, but another player told my opponent that she knows better and that it was conceding the match.

I said actually that it was a concession, she says that's a cheesy way to win a match and I proceeded to bang the 9 home. :D

Sometimes education is painful. :o
 
right or wrong

Well what rules was the tourny run by?? you can shoot as long as the director is watching, in texas express i think ther is a rule that states you can only take a break in you inning?? am i right guys??real in consideret of the player to do so. but they will do it. stick:D :D :D
 
Breaking down your cue is always taken as a sign of conceding the game/match just as reaching into a pocket and tossing some balls on the table is.
He did not do either of those things or said anything to that effect. He did leave his cue at the table as a sign he would return.
What you should have done is either not shot until he returned or followed him out and asked what's up?
His maners were bad but he did nothing to show he gave up the game.
 
Zirroe said:
... I am up 2 to 0 in a race to three and I start to break and run the final rack. I get straight in on the 9 ball but on the wrong side so I go to grab a bridge. As I proceed to obtain the bridge my opponent leans his cue down and walks outside (for a smoke break). ...
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Under no circumstance is it acceptable for the non-shooter to take a break of any sort when his opponent is shooting the case nine ball. If I were the TD, I would have explained that to him, and then forfeited him out of the tournament if he didn't like the ruling. It's important for him to learn the etiquette -- or even just basic good manners.

Well, maybe it's OK for him to leave for an earthquake or tornado. Or bad tuna fish.
 
If he was on the hill and that was the final 9 (possible) why would the guy leave? One person said he might not have wanted to watch the final ball drop. So that means he didn't want to shake the guys hand after the match either. All around poor sport in my mind. I don't know if it is conceding and I don't know if it is sharking - I do know it is just a straight up dick move to do. JMHO

BVal
 
BVal said:
If he was on the hill and that was the final 9 (possible) why would the guy leave? One person said he might not have wanted to watch the final ball drop. So that means he didn't want to shake the guys hand after the match either. All around poor sport in my mind. I don't know if it is conceding and I don't know if it is sharking - I do know it is just a straight up dick move to do. JMHO

BVal
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TAP TAP TAP! If that happens to me, what I think I will do is to simply leave the balls where they were, put away my cues and report my win to the tournament director. There's no point in chasing the guy down to ask if it was meant as a concession, shark move or other, because it only gives him a chance for more childish behavior, IMO.
 
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