Is this offensive to cuemakers?

DiamondDave

DiamondDave

Yes, I rather like Snake!
Silver Member
I had a customer come in to my store from out of town. We were talking for a little while and he told me about this time that he called up a fairly well known cuemaker and asked him to make a cue for him. He wouldn't tell me the name of the cuemaker he just would say he is a well known cuemaker but not one of the elite cuemakers today.

He called him up and wanted a 12 point cue made. 6 points up in the forearm and 6 points down in the butt. No inlays other than just the points. The catch was he wanted a Cocobolo wrap section and he had the peice of wood he wanted used. He wanted the cuemaker to use his wood in the cue. All this happened over the phone so the maker never saw the wood so he had no idea what kind of shape it was in, all he knew was it was 1.5 inches square by 18 inches which is plenty for a wrap section. Apparently the cuemaker has made cues with the same design before which is what gave the customer the idea. He happened to come across this particular piece which had a lot if figure. As soon as he mentioned the wood the cuemaker flat out said he wouldn't do it or consider it even if he saw the wood. The customer said he'd pay more and wait longer if need be but it was not happening.

Would this be a common reaction to such a request or was this just from a cranky cuemaker? With what I know about cues it didn't seem absurd, but based on his reaction maybe it was. It just seemed odd to me that he wouldn't even consider even if he got a look at the wood.

So what are the thoughts from the pros on here about using a customers wood for their cue?

Thanks
Dave
 
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I am not a cue maker, so I can't say if it's offensive or not. But I guess I could say two things about this.

1. Many people have custom items made every day with stuff that is important to them in one way or the other. So I suppose having a cue built with some of your own personal touches/items would fit into this category.

2. I suppose the cuemaker could be protecting himself/herself because if the customer was adamant that the wood be used, I could see the cue maker not wanting to get involved if something should happen to the cue. Not wanting to put his/her reputation on the line of sorts.

There are many pros and cons to this.
 
It is not an uncommon response. Some might be ok with it, a lot would not be. I don't think the cuemaker should be offended, but it is not absurd for the cuemaker to refuse to use the wood.

A lot of cuemakers have a strict schedule of how long they season wood in various stages. If it is 3 years, are you sure your friend wants to wait 3 years to use that particular piece? Sometimes a cuemaker might have to change his mind about a piece of wood after making a cut. What if he agreed to do it, then when turning it round, a defect was exposed? If it was the cuemakers piece, he just decides how best to deal with it (select another, change the intended use, etc). If it was give to him to use specifically in a cue by a customer, uh oh, there is a problem. He can't follow through (customer mad...lost his precious wood...cuemaker mad because he refunded the deposit and wasted his time, etc), or he compromises something to ensure a smooth transaction.

It isn't an issue of offending the cuemaker, it is an issue of taking complete quality control out of his hands.

Just the way I look at it, opinions may vary I suppose...

<edit> I just saw you asked for responses from the pros. I am not a pro, so you can disregard my thoughts if you prefer. :p
Kelly
 
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Using Customer's Wood

DiamondDave said:
I had a customer come in to my store from out of town. We were talking for a little while and he told me about this time that he called up a fairly well known cuemaker and asked him to make a cue for him. He wouldn't tell me the name of the cuemaker he just would say he is a well known cuemaker but not one of the elite cuemakers today.

He called him up and wanted a 12 point cue made. 6 points up in the forearm and 6 points down in the butt. No inlays other than just the points. The catch was he wanted a Cocobolo wrap section and he had the peice of wood he wanted used. He wanted the cuemaker to use his wood in the cue. All this happened over the phone so the maker never saw the wood so he had no idea what kind of shape it was in, all he knew was it was 1.5 inches square by 18 inches which is plenty for a wrap section. Apparently the cuemaker has made cues with the same design before which is what gave the customer the idea. He happened to come across this particular piece which had a lot if figure. As soon as he mentioned the wood the cuemaker flat out said he wouldn't do it or consider it even if he saw the wood. The customer said he'd pay more and wait longer if need be but it was not happening.

Would this be a common reaction to such a request or was this just from a cranky cuemaker? With what I know about cues it didn't seem absurd, but based on his reaction maybe it was. It just seemed odd to me that he wouldn't even consider even if he got a look at the wood.

So what are the thoughts from the pros on here about using a customers wood for their cue?

Thanks
Dave
Click to expand...

I would be ok with using the customer's Cocobolo provided it had been in his possession for at least 3 years. When it arrived it would check the moisture content and it it was ok I would proceed with the cue. If something bad turned out in the piece of Cocobolo I would notify the customer and offer to switch out the wood to a piece of mine. If he would not be ok with that I would charge him for my time and send everything to him.

All of this should be understood up front before any money changed hands.

Good Cuemaking,
 
The cuemaker was probably right to refuse the parts. In the long run his decision probably saved him and the customer a lot of unnessary hassle. The cuemaker could have offered to buy the wood, but most customers would probably place an artificial value the the wood which would be too high. Most auto mechanics will not let you bring your own parts either.
 
Bringin' Wood

I'm just a hobyist so I haven't run into as many horror stories. I'm sure the cue maker had his reasons. I wouldn't care but that may be my youth and inexperience talking. I'd just tell him I'd give it a shot but there were no promises.

Along the same lines, the other day a guy brought me a baseball bat he wants me to turn into a cue. I told him I had no experience in doing something like this and I couldn't promise him anything. He was fine with that and told me to give it a shot. I guess we'll see what happens.
 
A custom cuemaker should try to work with the customer's wood, IMO.
It's possible the cuemaker is not competent enough to be stuck with only one try at the cue.... this is the only reason I can think of to absolutely refuse the request. Of course there would have to be an understanding up front that the wood will have to pass muster, and nothing unsuitable should be used. Most customers totally understand this concept and are willing to be flexible about it. (waiting longer, etc.)
 
When i was first started collecting cues I gave a cue maker a forearm i had made by prather and i found a great piece of amboyna burl for the handle and gave him all the ivory $600 piece for the ferulle's, joint, butt cap, and inlays and he supplied the ebony for the but sleeve if i remember right. He told me 8 months and i got it in under 2 years.

But what i realy got was cue with the points are off by 3\8 of in inch the handle wood was to short so he made a longer butt sleeve so then all my inlays had to be longer to fit the sleeve. So what i realy got at first i felt i got what I paid for and i got burned. After playing with it i love the cue and everyone wants to buy it for more then have in to it. They think that the off set points make it look realy hand made and not cnc and the love the longer butt sleeve with a shorteer handle section added with an imron finish it has alot of bling to it.

I was mad over how much time it took and he never called to tell me that things were not right, i would have sent him new stuff or used his stuff i was try to be as cheap as i could at the time. i still talk to him from time to time I never bought another cue i dont like his new designs and i moved on to more sought after cue's and cue makers.

Communications is the key to great business with out it you dont get to many repeat customers.

Just thought i would add my experience here.

Craig
 
A long time ago I got burned, by a guy that had broken the butt section of his Q. He had me make a new butt & use his 2 shafts. About a year latter, I ran into a friend of his & he tells me that the guy blamed me for his warped shaft. NEVER AGAIN...JER
 
That is all very good input. Sounds like its more of a personal preference then a straight yes or no answer. I knew there was risk in using his wood but I guess there is more that goes into it.

I would say the attitude was a little unnecessary that he says he received but the refusal was understandable.

Great input, thanks.

Dave
 
cuemaker03 said:
Most auto mechanics will not let you bring your own parts either.
Click to expand...

Not a good analogy, IMHO. I have NEVER had a problem with an 'honest' independent auto mechanic letting me supply my own parts. Most mechanics who will not, is because they generally charge the cost of the part x2, on top of the labor.

Lisa ----------> Known LOTS of auto mechanics in her day.

To stay on topic....there are some cuemakers out there that simply will not work with cocobolo, as the dust is highly toxic, if inhaled....and can cause a skin rash, upon exposure, for others. From all accounts, nasty to work with.
 
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ridewiththewind said:
Not a good analogy, IMHO. I have NEVER had a problem with an 'honest' independent auto mechanic letting me supply my own parts. Most mechanics who will not, is because they generally charge the cost of the part x2, on top of the labor.

Lisa ----------> Known LOTS of auto mechanics in her day.

To stay on topic....there are some cuemakers out there that simply will not work with cocobolo, as the dust is highly toxic, if inhaled....and can cause a skin rash, upon exposure, for others. From all accounts, nasty to work with.
Click to expand...

The issues associated with people who want to supply their own parts is they want you to make good when their part fails. In what I do, when people want me to supply a just labor price, I make sure that its spelled out ad nausem in my quotes and contracts that if they supply substandard material, the onus is squarely on them. I know alot of plumbers and electricians that won't do this because ultimately if you buy a cheap faucet and it leaks, or your light fixture goes poof, you call them back expecting a no charge change. Trust me for every person that would expect to be charged for this, their are 100 that would want the replacement for free. By charging a premium on the part, it does two things, covers a little overhead and may help with any material defect change they will need to support.
Ultimately its the end consumer that whines about the high price, yet it is the end consumer that dictates said price. Brutal cycle.
I wouldn't have an issue if the cuemaker rejected the idea, because I have been on both sides of the argument.

JV
 
I wouldn't have a problem with it...sometimes you come across some sweet a$$ grained cocobolo...
 
If a customer has a nice piece of wood, then I may consider it, given certain parameters.

If a customer brings me parts in an attempt to cut costs, then the answer is no.

There is no way to cut corners when building cues. Not machines, not wood, not time.
 
Many players are just looking for a discount!!! I have a friend that went to a small time cuemaker and wanted a $1500. cue for $500. He promised to help the guy out and all the normal stuff that players say when the want a cue for much less than retail. In the end the product was very substandard and ended up having a structural problem on top of all the obvoius flaws in worksmanship and design. To this day 12 years later my friend still bashes the cuemaker!!! Many people who bring their own parts other than a titlist house cue are going to be a problem and you are almost always better off refusing the work!!!
 
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Kelly_Guy said:
It is not an uncommon response. Some might be ok with it, a lot would not be. I don't think the cuemaker should be offended, but it is not absurd for the cuemaker to refuse to use the wood.

A lot of cuemakers have a strict schedule of how long they season wood in various stages. If it is 3 years, are you sure your friend wants to wait 3 years to use that particular piece? Sometimes a cuemaker might have to change his mind about a piece of wood after making a cut. What if he agreed to do it, then when turning it round, a defect was exposed? If it was the cuemakers piece, he just decides how best to deal with it (select another, change the intended use, etc). If it was give to him to use specifically in a cue by a customer, uh oh, there is a problem. He can't follow through (customer mad...lost his precious wood...cuemaker mad because he refunded the deposit and wasted his time, etc), or he compromises something to ensure a smooth transaction.

It isn't an issue of offending the cuemaker, it is an issue of taking complete quality control out of his hands.

Just the way I look at it, opinions may vary I suppose...

<edit> I just saw you asked for responses from the pros. I am not a pro, so you can disregard my thoughts if you prefer. :p
Kelly
Click to expand...

Pro or not you are pretty much spot on.

Dale<sometimes pro, sometimes con>
 
I would tell them to send me the wood and I would check the moisture content. If okay. Then I would turn it round and check the moisture content again. If still okay I would tell him that I will probably be able to use it, but might have to switch to a piece of my own wood if it proves to be unstable or any other problems arise. But as for the above story. In the cuemakers defense, we don't know the whole conversation. The cuemaker could have asked where he got the wood and knew the source to not be a good source for wood. If someone comes in with a jet black piece of ebony from a local wood supplier that only was air dried wood I would refuse to use it. The reason it is so black is because it is still real oily. This is from actual experience with a local wood supplier. I have refused to use woods from certian national companies also because most of their exotics are "air dried". Air dried wood unless very very old is just plain old problems waiting to happen.
Chris
www.hightowercues.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
 
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Sheldon said:
A custom cuemaker should try to work with the customer's wood, IMO.
It's possible the cuemaker is not competent enough to be stuck with only one try at the cue.... this is the only reason I can think of to absolutely refuse the request. Of course there would have to be an understanding up front that the wood will have to pass muster, and nothing unsuitable should be used. Most customers totally understand this concept and are willing to be flexible about it. (waiting longer, etc.)
Click to expand...

I built two cues for a friend. He asked if I would build them from a tree he played in as a kid. His 70 year old mother had the local preacher (in Texas if I remember correctly) help her cut limbs of the tree (it had blown down) and send them to Arizona. He brought them over leaves and all. Told him I would build a cue for him but only when the wood stopped moving and splitting. He asked many times but he understood I was not building any cue until I was happy with the wood. About 3 years later I had just enough for 2 cues (and a whole lot of firewood from Texas). I built them - and he was thrilled.
 
ratcues said:
If a customer has a nice piece of wood, then I may consider it, given certain parameters.

If a customer brings me parts in an attempt to cut costs, then the answer is no.

There is no way to cut corners when building cues. Not machines, not wood, not time.
Click to expand...

Exactly...I would probably charge the same no matter what...even if they brought in all the wood and parts to build it....
 
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