Is this possible to control?

cubc

cubc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This shot came up on sunday. I was playing an 8 ball match APA on a 9' and ended up with this shot after i ran into the 10 after playing a ball in the side. I know this is a dangerous / stupid jump but wanted to just see if I could make it anyway.

Well I jumped and did make the cut but naturally the cue ball went off the table as many do when they're right near the rail like this.

Is there any way to control jump shots like this without it going off the table? Any special thing? or is this just typically a no-no for jumping?

CueTable Help

 
I jumped and did make the cut but naturally the cue ball went off the table as many do when they're right near the rail like this.

Is there any way to control jump shots like this without it going off the table? Any special thing? or is this just typically a no-no for jumping?
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The problem isn't that the OB is near the rail; it's that the length of the jump (over both 11 & 12, right?) is so much longer than the landing area - the CB doesn't have room to stop bouncing before hitting the OB. You could have tried a double jump, where the CB bounces once between the 11 & 12 - since the 12 is only a 1/2 ball jump. Then the landing area is big enough for the second bounce.

pj
chgo
 
Wow.
I wouldn't concentrate too much on the jump shot. Go back to the root of the problem. Concentrate on how you got into this situation - identify EXACTLY what it was that got you there - and turn that weakness into a strength. That way, you don't end up in this situation again.

You can spend all day wondering about why this shot went bad, but what really matters is that you put yourself in this situation - and you should learn to avoid repeating that in the future.
 
Blackjack said:
Wow.
I wouldn't concentrate too much on the jump shot. Go back to the root of the problem. Concentrate on how you got into this situation - identify EXACTLY what it was that got you there - and turn that weakness into a strength. That way, you don't end up in this situation again.

You can spend all day wondering about why this shot went bad, but what really matters is that you put yourself in this situation - and you should learn to avoid repeating that in the future.
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Sure, but maybe it was a safety played on him. What then?

pj
chgo
 
yea it's the distance of the jump that causes the problem.. and it was over both balls. This shot situation has came up about 5-6 times in the past week. I made the two I tried to make but lost the cue ball. The other times I just jumped safe to worry more about the cue ball.

edit: Yea i got into this position from making a ball in the side and trying to nip the edge of the 10 to bring the cue ball back out for the 8. I got the 10 a little too full and the cue ball died. It happens.

And I dont need to come here to ask about easy shots or shape. Running out isnt a problem but occasionally things like this turn up and I want to take a risk and try to learn something new. If I dont think something is possible, rather than thinking I know everything, I figure I could at least ask and see what people come up with.

For example I've never tried a double jump shot yet like PJ mentioned. That's a pretty cool idea and I'll see how that goes tomorrow night.
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
Sure, but maybe it was a safety played on him. What then?

pj
chgo
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Read his initial post... he put himself into that situation.

If someone played a safe on that shot - he should have kicked to make contact with the 8 - that way even if he sold out the rest of the game, it would have been better than doing that jump and giving up ball in hand.
 
if you can get your cue ball to land just before the 12 ball, it will naturally "bounce" over that skinny little edge of the 12. Probably still flies off the table, but worth considering.
 
Blackjack said:
Read his initial post... he put himself into that situation.
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Well, you're right that he shouldn't have gotten into that situation, but neither should you or I the last time it happened to us - or the next. Knowing what to do after you f*ck up in this game is a necessity too.

Your advice about kicking rather than jumping was good, of course. I thought the jump question was interesting too.

pj
chgo
 
You should have kicked at it anyways, why lose the game by hitting the 8ball off the table when your opponent still has 7 balls on the table.

Another thing you said this was APA, did you use a jump cue? Jump cues are a loud in the APA so if your using a regular cue or your break cue to jump then that would make the shot harder as well.
 
stevea said:
why lose the game by hitting the 8ball off the table when your opponent still has 7 balls on the table.
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Because I was on the hill with the score was 4-0 and I wanted to attempt it and see if I could hold the cueball on the table still AND make it. People around enjoyed the shot even though the cue ball went off the table and I lost that game.

I figured I would lose because of it but still wanted to try it anyway. Ever did that before??

stevea said:
Another thing you said this was APA, did you use a jump cue?
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No I used a full cue to jump with.
 
cubc said:
Because I was on the hill with the score was 4-0 and I wanted to attempt it and see if I could hold the cueball on the table still AND make it. People around enjoyed the shot even though the cue ball went off the table and I lost that game.

I figured I would lose because of it but still wanted to try it anyway. Ever did that before??



No I used a full cue to jump with.
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You did not mention the match score in your initial post. With the score being 4-0 I can understand why you would attempt the jump.

Nice try and better luck next time.

Steve
 
Well I didnt think it mattered why I would attempt to do anything. I was simply asking for possible ways to control the specific diagrammed shot.

hypothetical example: Jumping the same way using draw will affect how the following bounce hits and will hit the rail and save it. Or jumping with follow will cause.. something else to happen on the bounce. You know things like that. A jump masse would be higher percentage etc. etc.

Kicking is a given for the smarter shot but come on.. thats boring sometimes :)
 
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cubc said:
Because I was on the hill with the score was 4-0 and I wanted to attempt it and see if I could hold the cueball on the table still AND make it. People around enjoyed the shot even though the cue ball went off the table and I lost that game.

I figured I would lose because of it but still wanted to try it anyway. Ever did that before??
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Yea I have and I might have tried it hear also, didn't know it was 4-0.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Well, you're right that he shouldn't have gotten into that situation, but neither should you or I the last time it happened to us - or the next. Knowing what to do after you f*ck up in this game is a necessity too.
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Well, you have the advice you give, I have the advice I give. The jump was the result of a position error. The shot on the 8 was what it was because of the position - not because he needs to practice this shot. You may not see it that way - and I understand that and I can sleep at night knowing that you won't agree with me. IMO, practicing a low percentage shot like that is a waste of time. Worrying about why you missed it is a waste of time. A lot of the shots we miss are because of position errors and leaving our zone of comfort. I think that players would better spend their time NOT getting into that situation in the first place- your view may differ from mine, and that's ok.

Patrick Johnson said:
Your advice about kicking rather than jumping was good, of course.
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Of course it was!

Patrick Johnson said:
I thought the jump question was interesting too.

pj
chgo
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It was interesting!

But...

I'm not one of the people that would tell anybody to jump over two balls to make contact with a ball that is 2 inches from the rail. That fact excuses me from addressing the jump shot when I can identify better and/or higher percentage options.

My mind works like this ... that shot's not going to be successful 98% of the time, so why waste time worrying about it? Just don't go there. Find out what got you into that situation, learn from it and don't let it happen again. That makes sense to me... lol
 
Blackjack:
Well, you have the advice you give, I have the advice I give.
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Yep. I just thought you were a little dismissive of his question, like "what a dumb thing to ask". Sorry if I misread you.

pj
chgo
 
Of course the kick is the shot but if you absolutely HAD to shoot such a shot, it is the perfect scenario for a jump masse using the dart method.

Players of average height can get a MUCH steeper angle of attack using the dart method and so the launch angle of the CB has a much greater vertical component than a forward component so you could easily land it between the 11 and 12 with no risk of the CB hopping off the table.

Then use a little left side and the CB will curve decidedly to the left.

Another ideal use of the dart method would be if you move the CB and 11 ball up table and place an OB near the jaws of the opposite side pocket.

Since the CB and 11 are so close, there would be a serious risk of hitting the OB with the CB in the air and it could leave the table.

But with the dart method, there would be zero chance of that happening.

Regards,

Jim
 
cubc said:
... Is there any way to control jump shots like this without it going off the table? Any special thing? or is this just typically a no-no for jumping?...
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Yes and yes. If you manage to land the cue ball right at the 8, I think there is a chance to keep the cue ball on the table. I suppose you could practice precise landing spots when you have the other aspects of your game covered. Personally, I'd shoot the masse before the jump, but I have some idea of how to aim the masse so I have a good chance to hit the ball. Also, I've practiced masses a lot more than jumps. The sane way to play the shot for most people on that particular table is the one-rail kick.

So, you have two circus shots and a standard shot to choose from.
 
[...]

I know this is a dangerous / stupid jump but wanted to just see if I could make it anyway

[...]
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This thread is interesting because it clearly indicates the line between playing and winning. When you are "playing to win" you:
1) never practice while you play.
2) never shoot a shot that has terrible odds of success.
3) always play a tough mental game.

If you are just hitting balls to play pool, but don't care if you win or lose, then by all means, shoot crazy jump shots whenever you want. But becoming a true "player" requires the discipline not to make mental errors.

I would never advocate shooting this shot, even if you are ahead 99 to 0 in a race to 100. Not only does it show lack of mental discipline, it shows little respect for your opponent...

-td <-- just my $0.02
 
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