Is your stroke important.

JrPlayer01

JrPlayer01

Registered
I hear a alot of crap on peoples stroke and how it affects peoples game. If you look in the so called "pro", good player or not they all have differnt strokes that make each player good in the own way any thoughts or opinions?:confused: i am confused lol -Curtis-
 
The thing a stroke must be is repeatable. A player has to know where his stroke will go every time and what it will produce. Otherwise, no matter how well he aims, if his stroke it not repeatable and true, he will not be accurate and he will not control the cueball.

A stroke does not have to be picture perfect, but it must be the same. Bustamante, for example, does many things technically wrong, but he does it the same every time and he can compensate for his technical errors.
 
I want to clear up the misconception that proffesional pool players do not have straight strokes. This isn't quite true. I hear snooker players and fans bashing pool pros because they think the pool player doesn't have a straight stroke but they don't quite seem to get it.

On the moment of impact and often before it, the pro pool players cue is on the line of the shot. However many pros tend get off line on their back stroke. During their forward stroke they come back on the line of the shot and then follow through.

I see many beginners trying to emulate the "professional" stroke by forcing their cue to wiggle around. However they are doing both on the back swing and then forward swing as well.

Think of Jim Furyk in Golf. He has a relatively unconventional swing, however he gets himself back on line before he hits the ball which makes it work. The pool equivalent to that would be Bustamante I suppose.
 
The stroke is not that important. What is more important is a cue stick that cost at least $6000. The cue will make you shoot better and improve your stroke. It is a linear progression; the most expensive the cue the better you will play. If you believe this crap than I know where you can buy a bridge. You will need one for the long shots.
 
i agree with the repeatable aspect.....if you can always do the same thing with the same results, youll be able to build around that. Of course the better mechanical stroke you have.......follow thru, speed, touch, i think the better and faster your success will be, but theres been plenty of pro players with non textbook strokes that won everything there is to win. i bet they probably had to work harder to get where they got than a guy with a good stroke, but its not impossible.
 
Is the stroke important? Yes. Do all pro's look the same when playing? No.

But there are some things you can look for in a stroke that many of the pro's do the same way, they may just have a different way of getting there. I dont believe you can make everyone look the same when they play, too many variables in bodies. But there are some fundamental guidlines that should be studied and practiced.

Do you HAVE to follow suggested fundamentals? No. But I think the learning curve is much shorter if good instruction is recieved and followed.

Then there is the debate of "if such and such pro followed certain teachings" would he be an even better player? But we wont even get into that one :)

Woody
 
JrPlayer01 said:
I hear a alot of crap on peoples stroke and how it affects peoples game. If you look in the so called "pro", good player or not they all have differnt strokes that make each player good in the own way any thoughts or opinions?:confused: i am confused lol -Curtis-
Click to expand...

The stroke is not important at all (other than tempo)...it is "should be" natural movement. The important part is your grip / stance / posture / alignment.

and the most important part...in my opinion...is a solid stable bridge hand.


I think I have heard / read that there are a few pros out there that after making a slight bridge hand adjustment started shooting lights out and continued on that way for a long time...(I think Buddy Hall was one of them)
 
BRKNRUN said:
The stroke is not important at all (other than tempo)...it is "should be" natural movement. The important part is your grip / stance / posture / alignment.

and the most important part...in my opinion...is a solid stable bridge hand.
Click to expand...

If you can't hit the cue ball where you intend to, than you will never achieve any real sucess, because you can't accurately control the cue ball.

BRKNRUN said:
I think I have heard / read that there are a few pros out there that after making a slight bridge hand adjustment started shooting lights out and continued on that way for a long time...(I think Buddy Hall was one of them)
Click to expand...

This only means that they already had a repeatable stroke.

If you are right then hand eye coordination plays only a small part in pool. You would just have to have an ability recognize angles. But there are plenty people who have played for many years and have never run a rack. I can't imagine that all of these people don't have the ability to recognize angles consistantly. Rather if you have been shooting pool for 5-6 years and still haven't achieved a break and out the reason is probably that your hand eye coordination isn't that great, ie. can't develop a repeatable stroke. Of course the other possible reason is that they just don't play very often.
 
yes, stroke matters

as does stance, approach [preshot routine], and follow through.

Just like reading a table (since every table is different), [YOUR] stroke will be different. Question is, is it comfortable to you, and does it produce results?

What a lot of folks work through, is understanding their own mechanics and adapting to only ONE thing... and that's a consistant perspective "when in your stance" and addressing a cue ball.

The consistancy of stance and addressing a cue ball is paramount to eliminating a crucial variable in any billiard sport.

Hence; why I say stroke matters.
 
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Funny, no one talk about the pause just before shooting the cueball.

Try checking out few of the top players like Chao Fong Pang, Efren, Wu Chia Ching.

They do pause for about a second or two just prior to shooting the cueball.

There are two type of pause.
1. Cue tip pause near the cueball then pull back the cue for the final swing and then strike the cueball. Check out Wu Chia Ching.

2. Cue is pause during the final back swing,then follow through for the shot. Check out Alison Fisher and Karen Corr.


What you need to do during the pause?

1. Check if cue will striking at the exact spot of the cue-ball e.g dead centre/english.
2. Check if aim is correct.Cue-ball to object-ball and object-ball to pocket. If your instict says it ain't goin, get back up and do your pre-routine approach to the shot.
 
I read an article recently from Jeannete Lee.

The question was asked if you could go back 10 years what would be the most important thing you would tell yourself. She said 10 years ago she didnt realize how import the stoke was.

I have to agree , your stroke needs to be accurate and in line and repaeatable. I have seen very few players with a good stroke who still could not shoot very well (speed, shot selection etc..)
I am slowly learning how to stroke properly and unlearn bad habits.

SR



RR
 
> This is really gonna create a ruckus here,but here is my opinion on it. My personal belief is that if a player were to develop a stroke that achieved complete "mechanical" perfection,meaning no extraneous motion,and that every bit of energy the cue is released with goes into the cue ball,and thus the object ball,imparting the exact amount of force,speed,and spin needed the same way every time,that it would take the mental/emotional sides of the game right out of the equation. Sure you would need the intellectual side of your brain to analyze patterns,make decisions based on past situations,and things like that. But,imagine what having a stroke like that would open up for you if you NEVER underhit/overhit/overspun/underspun a shot under pressure and beat yourself as a result. I've come to the conclusion that when you are first learning the game,and building a stroke,that it should have some psychological "armor" attached,that regardless of how you choose to shoot a shot,that no matter how much pressure there is due to the situation in a tournament,amount of the bet or whatever,the pressure must not cause you to deliver the decision you made in any way other than exactly as you planned. How you go about that is up to you,as this is what I really think is the biggest mental hurdle to overcome. For just about ALL of us humans that play pool,sometimes the mistakes we make are caused by pressure affecting the delivery of the stroke. We get jumpy or something and overhit a shot,or get fired up and hit the shot too "pure",or get down on ourselves and underhit shots,all of which can cause any combination of side/top/back spin to either take more than we thought or allowed for,or less than we intended,causing an inadvertent miss. If the stroke is perfect,and does exactly what you want every time,there is NO way to dog it,at least in my mind. What drills like the Kinister stuff do is help develop the physical parts of the machine you are building to pocket balls and move the cue ball around. Once you can do those shots reliably without being in battle,then you seek competition,but not to the extent that you stop trying to develop the physical parts. Tommy D.
 
Cameron Smith said:
Think of Jim Furyk in Golf. He has a relatively unconventional swing, however he gets himself back on line before he hits the ball which makes it work. The pool equivalent to that would be Bustamante I suppose.
Click to expand...

Bustamante is a prime example. Cue pointing almost a full ball off the target on each practise stroke, but a perfectly smooth and straight followthrough through the cueball with precise control.
 
Tommy ...

Tommy-D said:
> This is really gonna create a ruckus here,but here is my opinion on it. My personal belief is that if a player were to develop a stroke that achieved complete "mechanical" perfection,meaning no extraneous motion,and that every bit of energy the cue is released with goes into the cue ball,and thus the object ball,imparting the exact amount of force,speed,and spin needed the same way every time,that it would take the mental/emotional sides of the game right out of the equation. Sure you would need the intellectual side of your brain to analyze patterns,make decisions based on past situations,and things like that. But,imagine what having a stroke like that would open up for you if you NEVER underhit/overhit/overspun/underspun a shot under pressure and beat yourself as a result. I've come to the conclusion that when you are first learning the game,and building a stroke,that it should have some psychological "armor" attached,that regardless of how you choose to shoot a shot,that no matter how much pressure there is due to the situation in a tournament,amount of the bet or whatever,the pressure must not cause you to deliver the decision you made in any way other than exactly as you planned. How you go about that is up to you,as this is what I really think is the biggest mental hurdle to overcome. For just about ALL of us humans that play pool,sometimes the mistakes we make are caused by pressure affecting the delivery of the stroke. We get jumpy or something and overhit a shot,or get fired up and hit the shot too "pure",or get down on ourselves and underhit shots,all of which can cause any combination of side/top/back spin to either take more than we thought or allowed for,or less than we intended,causing an inadvertent miss. If the stroke is perfect,and does exactly what you want every time,there is NO way to dog it,at least in my mind. What drills like the Kinister stuff do is help develop the physical parts of the machine you are building to pocket balls and move the cue ball around. Once you can do those shots reliably without being in battle,then you seek competition,but not to the extent that you stop trying to develop the physical parts. Tommy D.
Click to expand...


Can you work on your stroke control ... like when you are stroking the keys, can you break to a new paragraph now and then. It would be appreciated ... lol
 
BRKNRUN said:
The stroke is not important at all (other than tempo)...it is "should be" natural movement. The important part is your grip / stance / posture / alignment.

and the most important part...in my opinion...is a solid stable bridge hand.


)
Click to expand...

This, to me, is like saying you don't need a good engine in your car, as long as you have a good transmission, tires, brakes and frame.

You have to have it all in order for it to work properly. Take away any part of it, and the whole thing fails to work.

Steve
 
Kind of a silly thread. Of course your stroke is important.

I think most players (C and above) can make a nice stroke on the ball when they are playing a slow to medium slow shot. The problems start when you try to hit the cue ball with a little more speed.

A smooth transition from back swing to forward swing where the cue stick is starting forward slowly and then accelerating to the needed speed would be ideal. I can't do it. I've tried and tried to start forward slowly on shots that I intend to shoot with speed. I've tried pausing at the back also. Fortunately most of the time I guess I get the cue stick to where I want it to be and at the right speed.

I use to do it in golf. Start down slow and come through like you mean it. I don't understand why I can't do it in pool.
 
pooltchr said:
This, to me, is like saying you don't need a good engine in your car, as long as you have a good transmission, tires, brakes and frame.

You have to have it all in order for it to work properly. Take away any part of it, and the whole thing fails to work.

Steve
Click to expand...
This is exactly right in my opinion.
I was at the top of my game about a year ago and essentially quit playing.
In the past 3 months I've started back, playing 10 - 20 hours a week and just now am getting it back. My whole problem is stroke and rhythm. I can't do the things I could do a year ago because of these two issues. Everything else in my game is sound with the probable exception of concentration. I think it may be easier to tell in 3 cushion when stroke is an issue. Letting the cue ball run and using side English on most shots vs hitting primarily center ball as in pool minimizing cueball movement. 3 Cushion lets you see right away when there's something wrong. The cue ball doesn't have the action it did before when it was stroked well.

In other words, anybody can pocket a ball with a bad stroke but nobody can run racks with a bad stroke. And in 3 cushion anybody can make a natural with a bad stroke but nobody can average .750 or even .500 with a bad stroke and as said above this applies to all the other aspects, of the game ie stance, bridge....

This may be one of the unfortunate things in pool is that when the game has fallen off some, it may be a little harder to determine where the fault is. Stroke, rhythm, stance, approach...... and may be why some here are saying stroke isn't that important. These folks may run a rack of 8 ball now an again, play better than most, and are satisfied with their game.

If you want to play at a high level you must have a good engine.
 
pooltchr said:
This, to me, is like saying you don't need a good engine in your car, as long as you have a good transmission, tires, brakes and frame.

You have to have it all in order for it to work properly. Take away any part of it, and the whole thing fails to work.

Steve
Click to expand...

I think people missed my point...

What I was trying to say is that a good stroke is developed from proper set up.

The stroke itself (actual movements) should be natural motions...anything "forced" will break down under pressure...

You can change your stroke by changing the various "static" parts...Grip / Stance / Posture / Alignment... The only thing those really don't affect is the "tempo"...or "rythum"...or "timing" whatever you want to call it......You need to find "your" tempo...and then build around it.

What I am getting at is to me a good stroke is a consistent "natural" movement...I am not overly concerned with "appearance"

Example: Efren - Busta - McCready - Frost -These four never seem to be mentioned in the "good stroke" class...but I have some breaking news...They all have great strokes...They are all "natural" and VERY consistent...Even though they look like they are all over the place, careful study will show you that they are all over the exact same places every time...especially at impact...

My tip o the day...Remember this key phrase..."Forced motion breaks down under pressure..Your body will want to do what is natural"..and since natural motion can be adjusted through Grip / Stance / Posture / Alignment why not do what is natural?"
 
Tommy-D said:
> This is really gonna create a ruckus here,but here is my opinion on it. My personal belief is that if a player were to develop a stroke that achieved complete "mechanical" perfection,meaning no extraneous motion,and that every bit of energy the cue is released with goes into the cue ball,and thus the object ball,imparting the exact amount of force,speed,and spin needed the same way every time,that it would take the mental/emotional sides of the game right out of the equation. Sure you would need the intellectual side of your brain to analyze patterns,make decisions based on past situations,and things like that. But,imagine what having a stroke like that would open up for you if you NEVER underhit/overhit/overspun/underspun a shot under pressure and beat yourself as a result. I've come to the conclusion that when you are first learning the game,and building a stroke,that it should have some psychological "armor" attached,that regardless of how you choose to shoot a shot,that no matter how much pressure there is due to the situation in a tournament,amount of the bet or whatever,the pressure must not cause you to deliver the decision you made in any way other than exactly as you planned. How you go about that is up to you,as this is what I really think is the biggest mental hurdle to overcome. For just about ALL of us humans that play pool,sometimes the mistakes we make are caused by pressure affecting the delivery of the stroke. We get jumpy or something and overhit a shot,or get fired up and hit the shot too "pure",or get down on ourselves and underhit shots,all of which can cause any combination of side/top/back spin to either take more than we thought or allowed for,or less than we intended,causing an inadvertent miss. If the stroke is perfect,and does exactly what you want every time,there is NO way to dog it,at least in my mind. What drills like the Kinister stuff do is help develop the physical parts of the machine you are building to pocket balls and move the cue ball around. Once you can do those shots reliably without being in battle,then you seek competition,but not to the extent that you stop trying to develop the physical parts. Tommy D.
Click to expand...
Excellent post. I couldn't agree more. I think getting that "biggest mental hurdle" out of the way is the central most important difficulty in pool for me. I always see it as some lapse of concentration. I think this because it feels like when I concentrate, I can play great. I can totally depend on my stroke to do what I expect. That concentration always seems elusive, and I can never pin down why.

And yes, I think the stroke IS pool. It's all you really have. You DO nothing in pool, except what you do with your stoke.

KMRUNOUT
 
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