It's a dead horse but...this pic might sum up why USA doesn't win the MC anymore.

CreeDo

CreeDo

Fargo Rating 597
Silver Member
ObXcjKy.jpg


The top is what a world-class major looks like. The bottom is the US Open.

Granted it's not a shot of the US Open at its most packed, but I've attended a couple
and this is what it looks and feels like. It's got a sort of informal, DIY vibe.
You can sit right by the TV table most of the time, except during the finals.

It's not that there's anything wrong with the US Open, it's a tough event that attracts the top players,
and they all want that title. The payout and field are more or less world-class.

But the scale and setting and "feel" of the US Open is not the same.
The World 9b, WCOP, World Pool Masters, are major sporting events. Televised and live, cameras everywhere,
uniformed refs, big crowds, high quality presentation, they feel like a world championship should.

2012WCOPD5S2Arena1000.jpg


What I'm getting at is that anyone who plays in a situation like this is gonna feel massive pressure.
It's professional. It's serious. I think a lot of Americans see the payouts and brackets on AZ and think
"ok, world 9b and us open, both 5-figure 9ball events, basically the same thing".

But all those extras like big crowds and banners and cameras... it's not just fluff, it adds to the pressure.
The setting matters, making it feel like a bigger deal than just a couple of pros doing a race to 11.

We need US players to attend these events, if we want them to get used to Mosconi-Cup style pressure.
Right now, most of our team gives these events a pass and never venture beyond the US Open.
 
I thought the World 9-ball championship in Qatar hardly even had anyone watching in the audience?
 
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They have sponsors outside the realm of pool products with deep pockets. American pool does not. It's that simple.
 
Pool is Slowing Dying

I believe pool in general is slowly dying. Unless the pool community steps up and makes critical changes, pool as we knew it in the 1980-1990's will never come to light.
 
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It only costs 80- 140k to rent an arena for a week, in a major city...


256 players would be 430$ from each players' entry fee goes to the house.

And it gets better: you need a pro to.review that contract, or ypu are gonna get scrod.

And you gotta prove you have 2million÷ in liability coverage.

And you gotta prove those working are covered by a policy for injuries durong the event.

And, and snd.

Pool isnt a moneymaker. If it was, more interest amongst those who hold yhe gold would exist
 
trob said:
They have sponsors outside the realm of pool products with deep pockets. American pool does not. It's that simple.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying we need more huge & expensive events in the USA,
though that might actually work with the right business plan.

What I'm saying, which I think is more realistic, is just that our top guys need
to hop on a plane once a year and take a risk, and play in a world event.
Someone besides Shane. Mike has tried a little bit, but as far as I can tell
Sky and Justin have never entered a tournament outside the US.
So of course they're gonna feel overwhelmed by the MC.

I know it's not cheap, it's gonna be like $2k+ for some of them,
But surely the top 5 in the US can manage to come in the top 50 in these
events and at least earn back airfare and hotel.
 
It's a fair point. I remember an interview with Steve Mizerak when asked why American pool is not as successful as English Snooker.

His answer was straightforward. He said English Snooker is very consistent, and high class. Same table, same cloth, same balls, same conditions, everybody dressed formally, a class event. On the other hand, American pool is whatever shows up, different tables, cloth, balls, and players showing up in t shirts and jeans.

I think Steve basically had it right.

All the best,
WW
 
OnDaSnap said:
I believe pool in general is slowly dying. Unless the pool community steps up and makes critical changes, pool as we knew it in the 1980-1990's will never come to light.
Click to expand...

Only in this country because it can't get out of the gambling gutter it's been in for the last 40 years or so. AND because this game of pool is NO LONGER an exclusive game played only in this country for the most part, it's exploding in growth in every other country NOT connected to the NORTH AMERICAN CONTINENT.
 
WildWing said:
It's a fair point. I remember an interview with Steve Mizerak when asked why American pool is not as successful as English Snooker.

His answer was straightforward. He said English Snooker is very consistent, and high class. Same table, same cloth, same balls, same conditions, everybody dressed formally, a class event. On the other hand, American pool is whatever shows up, different tables, cloth, balls, and players showing up in t shirts and jeans.

I think Steve basically had it right.

All the best,
WW
Click to expand...

Yes, but Snooker was lightly attended and rarely televised until Matchroom, Betfred and others started promoting it...if only Barry Hearn would bring his magic to this side of the Atlantic, maybe Sky Sports would televise one of his events if he paired up with promoters here, and the U.S. television market (and advertising) might follow him in. Pool sells overseas, maybe if our events got televised there first, it might ignite something...
 
CreeDo said:
I'm not saying we need more huge & expensive events in the USA,
though that might actually work with the right business plan.

What I'm saying, which I think is more realistic, is just that our top guys need
to hop on a plane once a year and take a risk, and play in a world event.
Someone besides Shane. Mike has tried a little bit, but as far as I can tell
Sky and Justin have never entered a tournament outside the US.
So of course they're gonna feel overwhelmed by the MC.

I know it's not cheap, it's gonna be like $2k+ for some of them,
But surely the top 5 in the US can manage to come in the top 50 in these
events and at least earn back airfare and hotel.
Click to expand...

There is a parallel in pro bowling, where it has grown big globally, but dying a quiet death in the US. However, many of the top US pros who are sponsored by a manufacturer or corporate sponsor are sent to world events. The three majors, however, are held in the US.

There was also a sense of decorum at one time in the pro bowling world. PBA pros were not allowed to wear shorts after leaving the paddocks. Now, they walk out with flip-flops and swimming trunks - not the image of a "pro" I'd want to see representing my organization. The average requirement to bowl a regional tour event has also dropped. Maybe they feel that their pro attendance is so abysmal that they'll take anyone.

I went to the local pool hall to see if there were any leagues. The only one was on a Wednesday, and it was on their single coin-op table. No tournament posters. Used to be I'd see flyers for tournaments around the area. Not here. In NYC and Long Island I think it's a bit better, but it's not looking good here where I am. The place is packed in the weekend, but it's all recreational players...
 
West Point 1987 said:
Yes, but Snooker was lightly attended and rarely televised until Matchroom, Betfred and others started promoting it...if only Barry Hearn would bring his magic to this side of the Atlantic, maybe Sky Sports would televise one of his events if he paired up with promoters here, and the U.S. television market (and advertising) might follow him in. Pool sells overseas, maybe if our events got televised there first, it might ignite something...
Click to expand...
I would be in to go watch world class Snooker here. Where should he hold the tournament ?

Sent from my XT830C using Tapatalk
 
WildWing said:
It's a fair point. I remember an interview with Steve Mizerak when asked why American pool is not as successful as English Snooker.

His answer was straightforward. He said English Snooker is very consistent, and high class. Same table, same cloth, same balls, same conditions, everybody dressed formally, a class event. On the other hand, American pool is whatever shows up, different tables, cloth, balls, and players showing up in t shirts and jeans.

I think Steve basically had it right.

All the best,
WW
Click to expand...


Snooker was a hit when it started down to marketing and promotion genius of Barry Hearn. He promoted to the masses not just to people who can play. He promoted it as entertainment , doesn't matter if you do not know how to play the game so long as you enjoy to spectate and watch . The technical stuff, equipment,conditions only matters to the players but iis secondary to the masses.
Like major sports, the snooker spectating masses largely know little or bother about the nitty gritty technical stuff. :)
 
trob said:
They have sponsors outside the realm of pool products with deep pockets. American pool does not. It's that simple.
Click to expand...

That's because no one wants to sponsor a bunch of league bangers playing in a short race, rule restricted tournament against a few so called pros that for the most part have no chance of earning a living in tournaments outside of this country.
 
louieatienza said:
There is a parallel in pro bowling, where it has grown big globally, but dying a quiet death in the US. However, many of the top US pros who are sponsored by a manufacturer or corporate sponsor are sent to world events. The three majors, however, are held in the US.

There was also a sense of decorum at one time in the pro bowling world. PBA pros were not allowed to wear shorts after leaving the paddocks. Now, they walk out with flip-flops and swimming trunks - not the image of a "pro" I'd want to see representing my organization. The average requirement to bowl a regional tour event has also dropped. Maybe they feel that their pro attendance is so abysmal that they'll take anyone.
Click to expand...

I agree with this as far as bowling goes. I was a bowler growing up. My father owned the bowling alley when I was in high school. We had a high school bowling team that travelled and competed. At the same time bowling leagues were going constantly. They used to run double shifts like 4 days a week. Eventually that slowed down to the point that in the tiny town I grew up in the bowling alley closed. Luckily my father saw it coming and sold out before that happened.

On a side note that high school team we were on from our tiny town competed against very large towns with giant bowling alleys. There were no divisions. We never did take first at the state level but I think we got 2nd, 3rd, 7th and 9th during my four years in high school. Not bad for our small town in Minnesota.
 
Lonestar_jim said:
I would be in to go watch world class Snooker here. Where should he hold the tournament ?

Sent from my XT830C using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Northeast, new york or mass... To draw in some Canadians... But can you imagine what he'd do with turning stone, dcc, especially televising the action room?

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West Point 1987 said:
Northeast, new york or mass... To draw in some Canadians... But can you imagine what he'd do with turning stone, dcc, especially televising the action room?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Oh so you want to class pool up again and promote it Hearn style. He is already doing M.C. here.

Otherwise pool is too low class to ever have a chance for mass appeal. Anything sustainable would require the hero and heel approach or a total revamp of American pool.
Most won't pay for the current product on a pay stream. I sure wouldn't travel to watch this crap. Handicap it and wagering. Maybe. Fleming's make it happen model is pretty good. In its 4th year.

So give me pro Snooker in Vegas for a 400,000 purse and I will attend.
 
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