It's Really More A Hobby For Most

[ShootingArts]

Johnny is right

Eddie,

Johnny is right, this is his thread. If you want to continue our conversation, we can start our own thread. It is ridiculous to say other cue makers are overcharging because you don't value your own work though. Either you are underpricing your work or you know what it is really worth.

Custom cues are the cheapest they have ever been compared to people's income. There is a glut of cuemakers out there and even quality cues are selling cheap. The recent thread about Madison Bob is a fine example. Regardless of whether the price was $350 or $375 each, that is a ridiculously cheap price for a merry widow with two shafts and nobody has claimed Bob doesn't make a quality cue.

Hu

(check the main forum for my new thread concerning custom cue pricing)

HU,

I agree with you 100% about sneaky pete's playing the best and I will tell you why... it's becasue the woods structural integrety has not been compromised with a bunch of inlays and different woods therefore you will find the grain undisturbed for the most part and the original properties of the wood to be intact and that will give you the best feel you ever get in cue !

Now, responding to the second half of your feelings.... I really don't care how you feel.... I am who I am offering the best of what I have to offer at a realistic affordable price, simply giving customers more than they expect and not raping them in the process....

Cue building is no secret... there is NOT anything magical about it, and I will tell it like it is because I GIVE A DAMN !!!!!!

This industry is getting spoiled and it's bullshit!!! I am a pool player before anything else I do, and I for one am sick and friggin tired of seeing the general public being raped by a bunch of spoiled overpriced cuemakers !!!!!!

I am not here to make friends or enemies but I will NOT tolerate highrolling when it comes to cue prices !!! these players and general customers deserve equipment at a reasonable price and should not be put in the the situation to have to choose between a new car and a friggin' pool cue !

So on that note.. sell all the art you like I'm sure there are plenty of art collectors that will pay premium price for your sperm whale bone and jewels in your cues... meanwhile I WILL be building reasonably priced tools for the serious player who wants to better thier game and in turn be able to give you the last 3 and beat your brains in on the table !


Sincerely, Eddie Wheat

 

[JB Cases]

I was talking to a friend of mine and his wife qualified for a few WPBA tourneys. The key word here is qualified?....they turn away MANY Women who want to play in their events, and that means $$$ lost. If you have players that can't qualify, but want to put up the $$$ anyway to play knowing they can't or most likely won't cash why the hell would you turn them away?.....silly

It has to do with the logistics. The way teh tournaments are scheduled they really can't handle more than 64 players.

The WPBA has "built" the very best farm system there is in pool though. Through the regional tours they have plenty of spots PAID FOR GUARANTEED each tournament.

The regionals provide a good way for up and comers to test their mettle and get some seasoning. And it assures the WPBA of a certain level of quality play in their events.

The WPBA is trying to encourage a regional system for women to play in as a stepping stone to the pros.

Seems to be working.

 

[Johnnyt]

I agree that the WPBA has a fine system in place. I wish the men would copy it. That's the point of the thread. The WPBA has done just about everything right and they still can't get enough sponsorship for their players to make a living. Johnnyt

 

[TheBook]

This is not unique to pool. This occurs in every sport or game. The cream rises to the top and makes the money if it is there to be made. In the city that I live in there are hundreds of kids playing hockey with hopes of getting a scholarship and or making the pros. Hardly any get either and our HS hockey team has won more state championships than any other school in the state and is in the finals almost every year. My neighbor was the top scorer when their team was rated #1 in the nation by USA Today at the end of the year and didn't get anything out of it except for the enjoyment of being the best at that time.

Others put ridiculous amounts of money into gymnastic lessons or figure skating lessons in hopes that their little trophy will be the next gold metal winner.

There are also a lot of mechanics that spend far more than they can ever win by building cars and racing on the local tracks. The purse does not even come close to what it costs to race that night.

Take that local $10 pool tournament. Figure out what your average payback is and you will be far under minimum wage.

People do a lot of things for enjoyment and being able to say that they did it or can do it. Personal satisfaction.

 

[Johnnyt]

And that?s what I?m saying. Pool doesn?t have the Olympics like Figure Skating and Gymnastics, and other sports. Also the young women coming in off the regional tours in the USA have just about no chance of being in the top ten on tour for many years if ever. Players that were National or International champions in their countries before they joined the WPBA Tour hold eight of those ten spots, and that?s where the money is.

So if a pro doesn?t gamble (and win a good percentage of the time), he/she can?t make a living playing pool unless you?re at the very top. And if non-pros wouldn?t gamble with pros they would have to play each other?but that?s for another thread. Johnnyt

 

[almer]

Eddie,

Your opinion is your own. How valid it is is open for debate. Nobody is forced to buy expensive cues to play well. A bit of a pain to tote but I won far more than my share with a twelve dollar house cue with a ten dollar tip on it. Owning a $60-$75 one piece cue will still make your equipment competitive with anybody's in the world. For a little more, buy a sneaky pete. There is not a better hitting cue than a sneaky pete, my opinion. When people want pride of ownership they pay for it. They usually could drive a far cheaper vehicle than the one they own and the people in any other sport routinely have far more in their gear than needed to get the job done. I went to a boat show recently. $50-$70 thousand for a bass boat. A twelve to fifteen thousand dollar boat will catch as many or more fish and I have caught countless limits of bass out of a $200 canoe. Still no shortage of boats sold that cost three times what my first house did.

People are buying art and craftsmanship when they pay more than four to eight hundred for a cue. Their choice. My cue shop sits idle though and my custom gun building tools are boxed up. The brutal truth is that I can walk next door to my friend's machine shop and do grunt work running a lathe or mill and make more money day in and day out with no aggravation than I can make building cues. I cut stainless steel and plastic, less aluminum and a little black iron. I don't have to worry about adhesives or finishes failing, wood warping after I have cut on it for months, or unhappy customers that didn't know what they were ordering when they ordered it.

The local auto mechanics and appliance repairmen charge $65 to $100 an hour for shop time. What do you charge? How many hours do you have in a typical stick from first turning to final finish? After figuring shop overhead, materials, and consumables, what is your hourly rate for making a custom cue? If you keep up with it accurately I'll bet the farm that I make a lot more net per hour doing grunt work in the machine shop.

I'll be offering my art for sale soon. The prices will be based on both shop time and artistic merit. Custom cues may look very cheap!

Hu

Where i live people regularily charge $50.00 for a moorie tip installed,i charge $35.00 but its hard to sell a nice custom made cue with 2 shafts with moorie tips for $300.00,go figure,i agree totally with everything you say,i only do this part time,have my own paid for shop a good job,but wouldnt do it for a living

 

[Firecracker]

It has to do with the logistics. The way teh tournaments are scheduled they really can't handle more than 64 players.

The WPBA has "built" the very best farm system there is in pool though. Through the regional tours they have plenty of spots PAID FOR GUARANTEED each tournament.

The regionals provide a good way for up and comers to test their mettle and get some seasoning. And it assures the WPBA of a certain level of quality play in their events.

The WPBA is trying to encourage a regional system for women to play in as a stepping stone to the pros.

Seems to be working.

I like to format that the WPBA has because it does create a higher level of play. The only bad part is the girls that are trying to break on to the tour are rarely able to make ends meet, even with sponsorship. Johnnyt is right, $500 entry, $1000 in expenses, you have to place in the top half of the field to even begin to break even. There is kind of a catch-22 since in order to reach the level to play well, you need to play an average of 6-8 hours a day but to afford the fees, most girls have to work regular jobs which limits play.

I tried the pro circuit a few years ago and did alright, but quickly decided that I can make more at my regular job than probably all but the top 10 players on the tour. I discontinued playing for good last year and play only the regional events. Of course, now I wish I wouldn't have tried...I'm branded as a Master level player and now get excluded from many events that I could have played before.

 

[Bigtruck]

Huslin'

I like to format that the WPBA has because it does create a higher level of play. The only bad part is the girls that are trying to break on to the tour are rarely able to make ends meet, even with sponsorship. Johnnyt is right, $500 entry, $1000 in expenses, you have to place in the top half of the field to even begin to break even. There is kind of a catch-22 since in order to reach the level to play well, you need to play an average of 6-8 hours a day but to afford the fees, most girls have to work regular jobs which limits play.

I tried the pro circuit a few years ago and did alright, but quickly decided that I can make more at my regular job than probably all but the top 10 players on the tour. I discontinued playing for good last year and play only the regional events. Of course, now I wish I wouldn't have tried...I'm branded as a Master level player and now get excluded from many events that I could have played before.

Now you just stay home and Hustle unsuspecting guys, who come through to have a little fun, with your partner in crime Monica!! J/K

You know I love ya!

You know you can play in the Waco Tourny anytime you want to!

Ray

 

[Firecracker]

Now you just stay home and Hustle unsuspecting guys, who come through to have a little fun, with your partner in crime Monica!! J/K

You know I love ya!

You know you can play in the Waco Tourny anytime you want to!

Ray

Even for the Waco tournament I had to write to the "board" and provide a convincing argument to play. Sure, I can play in all the men's tourneys I want to, but where I could have made money in the women's event before, I've been banished.

BTW, when you gonna be back in Dallas??? I need some more lunch money

 

[WheatCues]

for me i feel all the good cuemakers make a great cue.what makes me decide on whos more valuable is things like ,availability,if i like the cuemaker,if their really old etc. why is a mike sigel cue going to be worth more than a eddie wheat because mike sigel made it with his own hands.the same with a bobby hunter .i know you could make a cue as nice eddie but bobby is more famous because he was a world class player.your right anybody can build a cue, but winning world titles makes their work more valuable whether you think their raping people or not.sorry to have to put it like that but its true.you think if efren made one cue ever and you made one cue ever both off the same quality.whos would sell for more . also you seem to be trying to say the cuemakers are robbing everybody buy from me.nice try man. i

Given that example ! you are saying just because a famous person made the cue it's worth more am I right ?....

Well my question to you is: how does that help you play better ????

Let's not confuse art with practicality !!!!!

And one last thing.. plesae do not put words in my mouth....I am NOT saying cuemakers are robbing anyone !

But there should be a realistic price cap for "playing cues" NOT COLLECTOR CUES !





- Eddie Wheat

 

[WheatCues]

Where i live people regularily charge $50.00 for a moorie tip installed,i charge $35.00 but its hard to sell a nice custom made cue with 2 shafts with moorie tips for $300.00,go figure,i agree totally with everything you say,i only do this part time,have my own paid for shop a good job,but wouldnt do it for a living

And I charge 35.00 as well for Moori's... it's a tough business because your direct success is persistance and quality and more importantly standing behind your convictions and NEVER allowing anyone to compromise them....

Once you find your niche' in the market, go with it and never look back, because there will be those who are threatened and simply won't accept change and will go out of thier way to shoot down your efforts every single chance they get !

I can appreciate your position on not wanting to do this full time, but don't ever quit building cues regardless of how the market fluctuates !


Sincerely, Eddie Wheat

 

[WheatCues]

This thread is about purses....not cues please. Johnnyt

Johnny,

You are 100% correct and your intial post complimented my analogy of my thoughts on the equipment as well, so I jumped at the chance to validate it once more....

I am sorry my post went off on a derived tangent... it was more of a statement than a discussion topic and I am sorry for smothering your thread, I had no intention whatsoever for this to become an issue, only wanted to attest to the direct effect the payout "purses" have on this poverished sport and show the contrast between what you put out for equipment vs. what you get back !


Sincerely, Eddie Wheat

 

[Johnnyt]

Johnny,

You are 100% correct and your intial post complimented my analogy of my thoughts on the equipment as well, so I jumped at the chance to validate it once more....

I am sorry my post went off on a derived tangent... it was more of a statement than a discussion topic and I am sorry for smothering your thread, I had no intention whatsoever for this to become an issue, only wanted to attest to the direct effect the payout "purses" have on this poverished sport and show the contrast between what you put out for equipment vs. what you get back !


Sincerely, Eddie Wheat

No Problem...

 

[WheatCues]

This is not unique to pool. This occurs in every sport or game. The cream rises to the top and makes the money if it is there to be made. In the city that I live in there are hundreds of kids playing hockey with hopes of getting a scholarship and or making the pros. Hardly any get either and our HS hockey team has won more state championships than any other school in the state and is in the finals almost every year. My neighbor was the top scorer when their team was rated #1 in the nation by USA Today at the end of the year and didn't get anything out of it except for the enjoyment of being the best at that time.

Others put ridiculous amounts of money into gymnastic lessons or figure skating lessons in hopes that their little trophy will be the next gold metal winner.

There are also a lot of mechanics that spend far more than they can ever win by building cars and racing on the local tracks. The purse does not even come close to what it costs to race that night.

Take that local $10 pool tournament. Figure out what your average payback is and you will be far under minimum wage.

People do a lot of things for enjoyment and being able to say that they did it or can do it. Personal satisfaction.

Regarding your post....

It's my understanding that their are over 7000 touring "pro players" internationally speaking and only the top 6% make a good living due to endorsements and the rest are starving !

And the pro names we hear and read about and view on televised tournaments are the 6% "the cream" per say....

I have heard this for years and have incorperated this into my logic and hesitation to becoming a mainstream player just because it's practically impossible to sustain your existance surviving off of tournament purses, given this kind of field, unless you are the top 6%.....

Which is why I leaned torward building cues becasue there is more consistant money and "payout" in this aspect of the industry than playing "professionally" given the staggering amount of international competition !

Does anyone know if this information is absolutely correct regarding the number of international professional pool players in existance ???



Sincerely, Eddie Wheat

 

[Johnnyt]

7,000 touring pros seems kind of high to me...but I really don't know. Johnnyt

 

[JimS]

This thread is about purses....not cues please. Johnnyt

TapTapTap

Eddie.... you are not making any friends by hijacking this thread and like it or not that IS what you are doing.

 

[WheatCues]

TapTapTap

Eddie.... you are not making any friends by hijacking this thread and like it or not that IS what you are doing.

I thought we got past this already... and I did not hijack it !!! I added to it and it took a turn......

Thankyou for jumping on the wagon and bringing it to my attention again !!!

Excuse me for being human and making an error.... I will do my damndest to be more machine like from now on !

P.S. did you read my last post before you felt compelled to scold me ????
"it's thread related"



- Eddie Wheat

 

[Snapshot9]

Players

7,000 seems high to me too, maybe counting semi-pro level too, it would be okay, but about 2,000 international pros seems a better fit to me.

Eddie, that's okay, I enjoy a different slant or perspective on things, that's why I am here.