It's The CB
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champ,
When a person shoots pool with any decent level of profiency, they ALL use an aiming "system". There is really no such a person as a "non aiming system guy". You either aim at the object ball or take a desperate whack at it, and aiming at a ball is some kind of "system", whether it has a name on AZBilliards forums or not.
Maniac
With the object balls placed near the rails, all the shooter needs to do is aim the cue ball at the outside edge of the object ball to pocket it. No need to invoke the power of (an aiming system); this type of shot isn't rocket science.
Where is your video then?
I set up the shot to show that the APPROACH is the same regardless of changes in angle as was claimed to be impossible.
Also genius aiming at the edge of a ball for shots up the rail IS a system if that's what you do. How close or far from the rail does your Aim At The Edge system work?
It's unreal how far someone like you will go to try and trap me. You all turn yourselves into sniveling hypocrites in the unwavering face of truth.
Try the shots I posted with your aim at the edge nonsense. Only you can know if you are truly doing it but I am betting you miss some of them.
The difference is that I can put the balls ANYWHERE on the pool table and do the same demo, can you?
And not only that if you paid attention you would see that I discussed cue ball control a little bit in that video.
Where is YOUR contribution to helping people play better pool? Oh that's right IT DOES NOT EXIST. Unless in your mind cutting people down who ARE trying to discuss pool and get better is your great contribution.
And when we admit that they just gloss over it as if we didn't say it.
I posted about going to a Taiwanese coach to fix my stroke last year. I posted all about it and what he did and how my game went (back) up after spending time with him to work the kinks out that had crept in over the years.
NOTHING
Not one naysayer had anything good to say about it. Not one.
But they are fond of saying "it's the stroke stupid" with emphasis on the stupid.
All of us who talk aiming systems have realized one thing about our games AFTER trying the million balls approach, after doing the stroke into a beer bottle drills, after spending hours and hours working on the stroke......we weren't AIMING consistently.
We did all the other stuff just like every player on the planet HAS to to do to reach any sort of decent level. And lets call an APA 7 a "decent" level for the purpose of the discussion. We did all the things to get to that level that time allows (because you know most of us have real jobs so we can't really spend 8 hours a day to get beyond the APA7 level with huge amounts of repetition)
And we found out that sure enough aiming was part of the problem holding us back. With a renewed focus on aiming we started making those tough shots, the thin cuts, the backward cuts, the long almost straight shots, the shots down the rail, and making easy shots more consistently.
We found that we had way more power over the cue ball because we were confident in our aim and 100% focused on the shot.
But the die hard naysayers don't want to hear that. They don't want to believe that something they think is automatic, something that they think comes naturally to anyone who hits a bunch of balls could be a problem for any one who has reached a decent level.
Furthermore for some reason they think that it's blasphemy to talk about it. Which I really don't understand.
I mean here you have one aspect of the game and if something someone says that is "unconventional" helps a person to understand and enjoy the game then what on earth is wrong with that?
And let me say that if there is a discussion on aiming and someone pops in and says oh well hitting a million balls is the only way to go then fine. Everyone is entitled to speak their OPINION in a discussion. Where it goes off the rails is when the person who says it's hit a million balls says you're a SUCKER if you don't believe that and the person teaching you otherwise is a CHARLATAN. That's when the crap starts flying.
Because there is no reason to say that. None. It's a truly simple proposition. Read what is said and try it out.
If you like the aiming method presented try it out, if it works or you want to learn more then get with someone who knows more. If you don't like it at all then drop it. Can it be any easier than that?
Shane Van Boening described the system he uses. Did anyone dare to call him a sucker for using an aiming system? Nope. He also was CLEAR to say that the aiming system he uses is a guide for him and that to get to his level you have to put in the time. Have to. No way around it.
And the research shows that getting to world class status in any field generally takes ten years or ten thousand hours of deep practice.
So while there is ultimately no shortcut to getting to the top of the mountain there are ways to get to each level that are easier than simply starting at the bottom with nothing.
No one can take education away from you. Once you learn something it's yours to use or not use as you want to. The only thing that can be taken away is your opportunity to be educated. And to me that's what the naysayers are doing when they maliciously and systematically attempt to destroy anyone who advocates learning an aiming system or three.
Earlier The Troller said that snooker players NEVER talk aiming. I posted five or six videos where they not only talk aiming they talk aiming that is NOT Ghost Ball. Aiming is actually the first step in any billiard game.
ALL OF THE THEM.
Snooker, Pool, Carom, every billiard shot around the world begins with aiming, from the guy at the corner bar who picks up a stick for the first time in his life to Efren Reyes shooting his five millionth ball to win the World Championships. Every shot begins with aiming.
AND THEN comes cue ball control after that.
First you aim then you control the cue ball.
People on this forum and forums other than this who have taken the opportunity to dive into aiming a little deeper have learned this. Learning it and working on aiming has helped us to become better players and to make sense of all that we had previously learned about cue ball control. It's like all that we know about cue ball control goes to a new level.
And what's wrong with that?
I think the author of Zen Pool might be a tough draw for your guy.
The aiming system DVD guy has knocked off a few champions in his time. They would be a tough draw for each other.
But history shows on this forum that naysayers ask for proof that instructors can play and then when instructors give it to them the proof is denigrated by the naysayers.
When proof is asked for that pros use aiming systems and it's provided then that proof is denigrated by the naysayers.
Aiming systems, imo, are useful for theorists, technicians and beginners. That's my opinion, do with it what you will.
After one reaches a certain level, then as someone said earlier, oneneeds to be able to choose left, center or right part of the pocket. Without that ability, position is not as fine as it needs to be. So what am I saying? Pocketing balls with precision goes hand in hand with accurate position play.
They go hand it hand. Period. And they tend to leapfrog each other as one's abilities progress. Some days you miss balls, some days you miss position. It's the nature of the sport. Of course, once you reach a certain level, pocketing balls isn't the issue except with the most difficult shots.
At that point, imo, table feel becomes by far the most dominant issue. But that a whole 'nother thread. And it's one that affects the road player the most.
After one reaches a certain level, then as someone said earlier, oneneeds to be able to choose left, center or right part of the pocket. Without that ability, position is not as fine as it needs to be. So what am I saying? Pocketing balls with precision goes hand in hand with accurate position play.
They go hand it hand. Period. And they tend to leapfrog each other as one's abilities progress. Some days you miss balls, some days you miss position. It's the nature of the sport. Of course, once you reach a certain level, pocketing balls isn't the issue except with the most difficult shots.
At that point, imo, table feel becomes by far the most dominant issue. But that a whole 'nother thread. And it's one that affects the road player the most.
And professionals. You forgot to include professionals who USE aiming systems in actual professional play.
Professionals use cue ball--object ball aiming systems? Or do you mean diamond systems for rail calculations? Forgive my naivete.
If you are talking about cue ball--object ball, I beg to differ. And I don't car3e what they say. They see ball, hit ball.
If they have ONE thing in common, and I wouldn't call it a system, but a KEY, it's that they PLACE THEIR LEFT HAND DOWN with a precision than an amateur would find unfathomable.
I don't care what your or anybody's system is, without that key, you will find the game overwhelming.
If you are talking about cue ball--object ball, I beg to differ. And I don't car3e what they say. They see ball, hit ball.
If they have ONE thing in common, and I wouldn't call it a system, but a KEY, it's that they PLACE THEIR LEFT HAND DOWN with a precision than an amateur would find unfathomable.
I don't care what your or anybody's system is, without that key, you will find the game overwhelming.
He needs to update his resume as he has done very well this past year including a high finish at the US Open.
No I mean that some pros use the aiming systems we talk about on here. They LOOK at teh shot in the way we talk about on here and then they put their bridge hand down where they think it should be based on that aiming method. For some it's so ingrained as to be automatic.
How do you think anyone decides where to place their bridge hand?
I know what I see. I literally, not figuratively, see a grey path like a gutter from the point in the pocket where the object ball will go back tthrough the object ball, then the path goes from the point where the shadow of the cue ball meets that object ball back to where the cue ball lays.
Other top players see similar things, I'm sure. Call it what you want it's all the same in the end. And it ain't an aiming system per se, it's a learned 'thing'. I ain't gonna go into learning theory and sports here, but there's been a lot of words written about it by a lot of smart people.
Like I said, aiming systems are good for theorists, technicians and beginners.
btw, what do YOU see when you are setting up for the shot?
Aren't you theorizing right now on what people do?
Check around on the board and you will find an hour long video where SVB spends 30 minutes demonstrating the system he uses to aim.
We don't need to discuss what is and is not a "system". Bt fwiw people use shadows as a systematic way to aim as well.......www.see-system.com Not a theorist who put up this site.
I see the edge of the object ball as my starting point for every shot. Works for me. I didn't invent it or discover it on my own. But I use it and play the best pool of my life now.
Whatever works for you, I guess. Or for svb.
And I'm not theorizing about others. I've had this discussion at various tournaments (and not started bby me either) and I've a pretty good idea what true players do and don't do. I'm talking about most of the older players who are now long dead. I've played quite a few of those who were in Varner's generation also. But that was a long time ago before systems became the fashion.
I'm curious when you say you look at the edge. Do you see a disc, or just one edge?
Mind you, I've been accused of being over analytical as well. But that was quite a few years ago.
And I'm not theorizing about others. I've had this discussion at various tournaments (and not started bby me either) and I've a pretty good idea what true players do and don't do. I'm talking about most of the older players who are now long dead. I've played quite a few of those who were in Varner's generation also. But that was a long time ago before systems became the fashion.
I'm curious when you say you look at the edge. Do you see a disc, or just one edge?
Mind you, I've been accused of being over analytical as well. But that was quite a few years ago.
Whatever works for you, I guess. Or for svb.
And I'm not theorizing about others. I've had this discussion at various tournaments (and not started bby me either) and I've a pretty good idea what true players do and don't do. I'm talking about most of the older players who are now long dead. I've played quite a few of those who were in Varner's generation also. But that was a long time ago before systems became the fashion.
I'm curious when you say you look at the edge. Do you see a disc, or just one edge?
Mind you, I've been accused of being over analytical as well. But that was quite a few years ago.
this is just my opinion but im thinking back in the day, systems were more in fashion then now, just a feeling i have.
ps; i could not make it out to a table tonight but have plans to do so tomorrow afternoon with cam in hand.
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There were books of course. No videos. But it was simply called shared knowledge. Not systems. At least as far as I know.
I can remember an Ohio Open tournament when there was quite the discussion about what each player 'saw'. The one thing that stuck with me was that the worse the player, the less he saw.
That was one of the very few tournaments I let myself get talked into. Very, very bad for business. And in those days tournaments paid for crap. So any publicity was just stupid unless you were alegend or a gasbag like Wanderone.
Aiming is the next to last step in a shot. The last step is the stroke.
The first step is knowing what you are gonna do base on the table layout and your opponents play and your on play.
Until you know where you are going to put the OB, you do not know where to put the CB to make the OB and CB go where you want.
Until you know how much spin and what type of stroke you are gonna use, you do not know where to put the CB to make the OB and CB go where you want.
Until you pick the spot on the rail for the OB to hit for a bank shot, you do not know where to put the CB to make the OB to hit that spot.
You can not aim until you decide what to do, what stroke speed you are using.
Until all these factors are taken into account, you have no idea where to put the CB on the table to make the OB or CB go where you want.
You do not pick a spot on the table for the CB and then take these factors into account, that's ass backwards.
But hey, I'm a no name, barely run two balls kinda a player.
The first step is knowing what you are gonna do base on the table layout and your opponents play and your on play.
Until you know where you are going to put the OB, you do not know where to put the CB to make the OB and CB go where you want.
Until you know how much spin and what type of stroke you are gonna use, you do not know where to put the CB to make the OB and CB go where you want.
Until you pick the spot on the rail for the OB to hit for a bank shot, you do not know where to put the CB to make the OB to hit that spot.
You can not aim until you decide what to do, what stroke speed you are using.
Until all these factors are taken into account, you have no idea where to put the CB on the table to make the OB or CB go where you want.
You do not pick a spot on the table for the CB and then take these factors into account, that's ass backwards.
But hey, I'm a no name, barely run two balls kinda a player.
these discussions can be interesting as long you keep an open mind
is it alright if you can share a bit more about your playing history? you sound like you have been around and play some good pool?
we are talking about a link in the chain duckie and not all of the links, you have been going strong with the anti aiming for over a year now, relax brother.
Sorry, you are simply wrong. How do you know where the cue ball is going unless you mentally aim at each possible shot in your mind. And remember even if there is only one shot there is a big pocket with the option to pocket the object ball in the left right or center. Then you have to mentally aim with the various permutations of english.
Sorry, the first thing of course is to look at the lay of the table and see what the 'natural' out is. Then you must aim in your mind. Of course without aiming mentally, you can't even see the natural lay of the table.
these discussions can be interesting as long you keep an open mind
is it alright if you can share a bit more about your playing history? you sound like you have been around and play some good pool?
I've been around. Mostly east of the Mississippi. In the days when one mostly drove from town to town, the west was simply too damn big. Mind you Vegas was always there. In those days getting comped was easy enough once they found you.
As far as more details they'll come out as I tell my stories. But don't expect a name. That didn't happen then and it ain't gonna happen now.
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