Ivory Ban 2014 - June 9th Meeting Results

Joe Barringer said:
As far as the issue at hand...
If any of you read the report I posted, there is one line that is very telling and I quote, "Sandra Brady tried to present comments on behalf of David Warther who had been given permission to speak and could not attend, but the Council denied her the chance to present Warther’s statement".
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Simply amazing I missed that and the importance of it. I guess you hit a nerve with Wayne who would rather keep this issue bottle up. LOL You are right Joe, the deck was stacked against them and they were just too feeble minded to realize all that. Sandra Brady and David Warther made it well know that they are at the forefront of the fight and the ivory council shuts them right down; not interested in hearing their BS because they are nobody in the scheme of things and TW is even less than nobody. How belittling!!! The best fight will be in the courts as you started where it should have started and maybe they could have blocked the regulations but they instead tried to do it on the cheap and were made to be the fools that they are thinking they could fight a fight on their terms and battlefield as you pointed out. You are the man and tell it like it is.

Joe publishes something important and Wayne goes off on a tangent - how infantile and wayne certainly has psychological issues as anyone can see. Are we to believe that the great Thomas Wayne is working hard on this issue and a major contributor to the fight. He would like all of us to believe that but it just is not true. I do not believe it for one second nor do I believe he is as great as some say he is. He has the need to feel important. The guy has serious issues and should seek counseling. Tony Russell was correct that the usual suspects would post. They do all the time Barringer makes a post they do not like. I do not post much but I read a lot and can name the same individuals over and over and over again making the same stupid comments over and over and over again. Now we can add wayne to the pot of usual suspects of "cuemakers" who have no customers, too much time on their hands and nothing better to do other than belittle others they do not agree with.

Joe - I thank you for being a realist and presenting the information openly and honestly for us to read whereas Wayne would hide the facts as he could have just as easily posted it for all of us to see and know whats going on but chose not to and then makes it a case against you. Why didn't wayne post the information when it was available? Why because he has a hidden agenda here. The lights are on but nobody is home; the elevator does not go to the top floor! The guy is not playing with a full deck or rather he is too stupid to know when he is playing with a stacked deck.

Joe, Warther and Brady have more to lose than any "cuemaker" the only difference is that Joe had the foresight to realize that the deck was stacked and was making fun of the morons fighting the fight knowing they would get defeated and that is exactly what happened. Kill the messenger!!

I would think Joe has more to lose here than any "cuemaker" and would probably help an effort that was well funded, had direction and could possibly win; not fight with a bunch of losers who had no shot at ever winning.
 
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LVBallBreaker said:
Simply amazing I missed that and the importance of it. I guess you hit a nerve with Wayne who would rather keep this issue bottle up. LOL You are right Joe, the deck was stacked against them and they were just too feeble minded to realize all that. Sandra Brady and David Warther made it well know that they are at the forefront of the fight and the ivory council shuts them right down; not interested in hearing their BS because they are nobody in the scheme of things and TW is even less than nobody. How belittling!!! The best fight will be in the courts as you started where it should have started and maybe they could have blocked the regulations but they instead tried to do it on the cheap and were made to be the fools that they are thinking they could fight a fight on their terms and battlefield as you pointed out. You are the man and tell it like it is.

Joe publishes something important and Wayne goes off on a tangent - how infantile and wayne certainly has psychological issues as anyone can see. Are we to believe that the great Thomas Wayne is working hard on this issue and a major contributor to the fight. He would like all of us to believe that but it just is not true. I do not believe it for one second nor do I believe he is as great as some say he is. He has the need to feel important. The guy has serious issues and should seek counseling. Tony Russell was correct that the usual suspects would post. They do all the time Barringer makes a post they do not like. I do not post much but I read a lot and can name the same individuals over and over and over again making the same stupid comments over and over and over again. Now we can add wayne to the pot of usual suspects of "cuemakers" who have no customers, too much time on their hands and nothing better to do other than belittle others they do not agree with.

Joe - I thank you for being a realist and presenting the information openly and honestly for us to read whereas Wayne would hide the facts as he could have just as easily posted it for all of us to see and know whats going on but chose not to and then makes it a case against you. Why didn't wayne post the information when it was available? Why because he has a hidden agenda here. The lights are on but nobody is home; the elevator does not go to the top floor! The guy is not playing with a full deck or rather he is too stupid to know when he is playing with a stacked deck.

Joe, Warther and Brady have more to lose than any "cuemaker" the only difference is that Joe had the foresight to realize that the deck was stacked and was making fun of the morons fighting the fight knowing they would get defeated and that is exactly what happened. Kill the messenger!!

I would think Joe has more to lose here than any "cuemaker" and would probably help an effort that was well funded, had direction and could possibly win; not fight with a bunch of losers who had no shot at ever winning.
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At first I thought this was satire but after agonizingly reading the whole thing I realize instead that your meds must be off and suggest you book an appointment to your doctor at the earliest convenience.
 
Tom Jones used to hire women to scream during his concerts .
I hope he wasn't one of the screamers.
 
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I have been reading up on possigle DNA testing, radioactive testeing etc.

It looks like the biggest hope will be in creating new type of jobs where someone becomes a sign off on Ivory being over 100 years old.
 
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TomHay said:
I have been reading up on possigle DNA testing, radioactive testeing etc.

It looks like the biggest hope will be in creating new type of jobs where someone becomes a sign off on Ivory being over 100 years old.
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Tom,

DNA testing is considered "destructive", in that it requires cutting out a portion of the ivory from the piece of art, threby diminishing or even destroying the item's value.

Radioactive testing - to determine that the tusk existed prior to atomic bomb tests in the mid 50's - is only viable on the "root" end of a tusk; the isotopes don't show up in the solid ivory itself.

Anyone embracing the various apparent loopholes in the proposed regulation should be aware that they are mostly fiction. FWS has already indicated that VERY few ivory objects will be able to meet their standard of "proof", and threfore be exempt from the ban.

A well-known example of this is the case of an antique flute currently in the possession of Fred Oster, an instrument repair expert in Pennsylvania ( http://www.fredoster.com/ ). The Boxwood flute belongs to a collector in London, and has four ivory bands that were inlaid during it original construction.

Upon completing the commissioned repair work Mr. Oster applied for the standard export permit required to ship anything containing elephant ivory internationally - Oster wanted to return the flute to its owner and collect his repair fees.

Unfortunately, FWS decided that they would now require several documents before issuing such a permit. Those documents include the original import permits to the country the raw ivory had been shipped to (when the flute was built), the original export documents from the country where the raw ivory was shipped from, plus all certified documentation for any time the flute changed ownership or was in any way repaired during its lfietime.

This flute is approximately 250 years old, and was built BEFORE THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR. As FWS correctly anticipated, none of those documents exist today and most of them probably NEVER existed - since none have been required until just this year. There is absolutely no doubt FWS intends to make it virtually impossible to meet the requirements for any "permit" to be issued.

The only solution to this unconstitutional regulation is to defeat it, and despite what convicted ivory smuggler Joe "Barringer" Puleo (and his alter-ego "LVBallBreaker") say, I and many other interested parties have been working our asses off toward that goal. Republishing to this forum an article that has already been received first hand by tens of thousands of active opponents [of the reg] is not a very impressive part of that effort, IMO.

TW
 
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Thomas Wayne said:
despite what convicted ivory smuggler Joe "Barringer" Puleo
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Tom,

Please confirm that your wife, girlfriend or dog is named Yvette. Let's see you step up to the plate with your mouth now big-shot. Just trying to confirm what trailer park you live in so we can serve you. If anyone can confirm his address or related in some manner to a Yvette, please let me know. Thank you.
 
There are always alternatives not on the list.

Bone.jpg
 
Joe Barringer said:
Tom,

Please confirm that your wife, girlfriend or dog is named Yvette. Let's see you step up to the plate with your mouth now big-shot. Just trying to confirm what trailer park you live in so we can serve you. If anyone can confirm his address or related in some manner to a Yvette, please let me know. Thank you.
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Serve away, Joe. A guilty plea is legally defined as a "conviction", and a frivolously filed lawsuit pays multiple damages plus legal expenses.

TW

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

http://www.ice.gov/news/releases/1010/101028orlando.htm


News Releases
October 28, 2010
Orlando, FL

Florida businessman pleads guilty to illegal trade in elephant ivory​

ORLANDO, Fla. - Joseph Barringer, 55, the owner of a Florida pool cue company, pleaded guilty today in federal court in Orlando to violating the Endangered Species Act in connection with the illegal export of African elephant ivory through an online auction site.

Barringer, the owner of Cue Components, located in New Smyrna Beach, Fla., manufactured custom pool cues and parts, including parts made from elephant ivory. Although his company's Web page stated that he did not sell oversees because it was illegal, he sold ivory laden pool cues to an undercover police officer of the London Metropolitan Police (Scotland Yard) who was working in coordination with special agents from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) Office of Homeland Security Investigations (HSI).

A search warrant was executed at the offices of Cue Components and the defendant's home. Federal agents seized 197 pounds of elephant ivory and cut ivory pieces, according to documents filed in court, including 24 elephant tusk tips. Agents also seized more than 1,800 Cuban cigars which are considered smuggled because they are prohibited in the United States and can only be brought into the country via clandestine means.

According to the plea agreement, there is not evidence enough to establish whether or not the ivory was illegally smuggled into the United States, although the defendant made a practice to obtain statements from sellers indicating that the ivory he purchased was lawful. However, according to papers filed in court, Barringer sent an email in November 2007 to his customers, including the foreign undercover police officer stating: "We're loaded up and I do mean loaded up with beautiful elephant ivory right now. We have 6 pairs of tusks sitting here (actually in storage). We've been buying and hoarding it because we don't know when or where the next ones will come from. And for some reason, we've been fortunate in buying a lot of tusks this past year. I think we are to the point where we can now safely sell in some quantity."

Barringer was charged with a misdemeanor violation of the Endangered Species Act for knowingly engaging in trade of ivory specimens, contrary to the provisions of the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES), and without a CITES export permit and re-export certificate as a result of his sale of the pool cue containing ivory to the undercover officer in England. The penalty carries a maximum sentence of one year of imprisonment, one year of supervised release, and a fine of up to $100,000, or twice the gross gain accruing from the crime.

The African elephant is listed as a threatened species under the U.S. Endangered Species Act and is also protected by the CITES, an international treaty regulating trade on endangered species to which the United States is a party. The global demand for elephant ivory led to devastating declines in the number of these giant animals, particularly in the 1970s and 1980s. Despite international efforts to control the ivory trade and stop the decline of elephant populations, prices and demand remain high, thus causing continued elephant poaching and illegal ivory finding its way into international and domestic markets.

The investigation was conducted by special agents of the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service and ICE HSI, with assistance from London Metropolitan Police in London.

The case is being prosecuted by Senior Trial Attorney Richard A. Udell of the U.S. Department of Justice Environmental Crimes Section and Assistant U.S. Attorney Bruce Ambrose of the U.S. Attorney's Office for the Middle District of Florida, Orlando Division.
 
Thomas Wayne said:
Serve away, Joe. A guilty plea is legally defined as a "conviction", and a frivolously filed lawsuit pays multiple damages plus legal expenses.
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Tom, Tom, Tom my dear, dear friend....

You're absolutely correct BUT you need money to fight. And, from what we understand, you're a 'brokester'. This is not about what you said in this forum although we will use it as we never "smuggled" nor did we ever have anything to do with "illegal Ivory" as you wrongfully stated. We are more interested in what you said on another forum. And, don't bother to change it as we already have copies.

Furthermore, the "conviction" you're embracing is a misdemeanor which is comparable to a parking ticket. You really need to get a life dude. Contrary to what you may believe, you can publish that article all over the place as we're over it, we've moved on and have made hundreds of thousands of dollars since then. In fact, I think everyone on AZ is over it and tired of seeing it. You can only get so much mileage out of it and that story ran out of gas years ago. The 'usual suspects' on here have been trying to denigrate us for 15 years and we're still here thriving and growing each year.

You did forget to mention the 1,800 Cuban cigars that were also confiscated. That's more money in Cuban cigars than you probably made last year.

More importantly, is the conviction of your friends in Skokie whose name we won't publish. It seems they had the real conviction for smuggling raw ivory out of the country on 160 separate occasions. From what I vaguely recollect, they had to pay fines upwards of $160k. Get your crap together - you're screwing with the wrong guy here.

You still didn't step up to the plate like a man and let me know if your live in companion is Yvette. You're fast and easy with the nonsense but not man enough to step up with an answer.

Too bad you had to derail a valuable thread for your own enlightened self interest. Sad to see you can't take a joke. BTW - the 'Merry Wayne Patriots' were made fools of by the very people you were fighting.

Oh, I almost forgot. I'm certain you'll find this amusing:
The Real Thomas Wayne At His Best

Have a nice evening Tom. :D
 
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Joe Barringer said:
[...]
Furthermore, the "conviction" you're embracing is a misdemeanor which is comparable to a parking ticket. [...]
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Regardless of the "severity" of the infraction, your illegal actions still give FWS ammunition to use against us as a group. All the international scientific studies (CITES, ETIS, MIKE, UNEP, etc) conclude that the U.S. does NOT play a significant role in the illegal ivory trade, but when guys like you break the import/export laws and get caught it weakens our efforts to fight this ban.

No one in this industry wants or needs your help in combating the government's attempt to ban the sale of ivory nationwide, but we sure could do without you intentionally trying to hurt that cause.

TW
 
Joe Barringer said:
Tom,

Please confirm that your wife, girlfriend or dog is named Yvette. Let's see you step up to the plate with your mouth now big-shot. Just trying to confirm what trailer park you live in so we can serve you. If anyone can confirm his address or related in some manner to a Yvette, please let me know. Thank you.
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Here's some info I dug up for you;

Thomas Wayne is the father of Bruce Wayne, and husband of Martha Wayne, as well as a gifted surgeon and philanthropist. He is the inheritor of the Wayne family fortune after Patrick Wayne, which was built through industry and real estate by previous generations. He is located in Gotham City but sadly, when exiting a theatre, Thomas and Martha Wayne are murdered by a mugger right in front of their son, Bruce. This tragedy shocks Gotham, leads to Park Row (the street where it occurred) being labeled Crime Alley. Bruce inherited the family fortune while being raised by the family butler, named Alfred.

It is rumored that Bruce leads some sort of double life so I'm not sure if I would mess with him.

I hope this helps!;)
 
Thomas Wayne said:
Regardless of the "severity" of the infraction, your illegal actions still give FWS ammunition to use against us as a group. All the international scientific studies (CITES, ETIS, MIKE, UNEP, etc) conclude that the U.S. does NOT play a significant role in the illegal ivory trade, but when guys like you break the import/export laws and get caught it weakens our efforts to fight this ban.

No one in this industry wants or needs your help in combating the government's attempt to ban the sale of ivory nationwide, but we sure could do without you intentionally trying to hurt that cause.

TW
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Revelation!
If you really want to know what gave FWS “ammunition” to go after this cause were you and your ilk. That’s correct sunshine. I won’t expound on the specifics but you certainly know a guy named Lucky who had and still has a website for all the world to see. Your arrogance to think you could ship ivory cues, have them be displayed online and not be noticed! The years roughly 2000 through 2010. How in the world did Lucky get hundreds of USA made ivory cues sunshine? You and your ilk had it down to a science. Oh and for those of you reading this and don’t have a clue – Lucky and his website reside in Japan. Are we to believe you never shipped an ivory cue to Japan? Case closed. Have a nice day.
 
this thread is very interesting

and it reminds me of the old saying, might not be exact wording but you will understand the meaning.


" beware of the man that screams ' i'm innocent ' the loudest ".
 
desi2960 said:
and it reminds me of the old saying, might not be exact wording but you will understand the meaning.


" beware of the man that screams ' i'm innocent ' the loudest ".
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So innocent he wouldn't sign the ticket...
 
ratcues said:
Here's some info I dug up for you;

Thomas Wayne is the father of Bruce Wayne, and husband of Martha Wayne, as well as a gifted surgeon and philanthropist. He is the inheritor of the Wayne family fortune after Patrick Wayne, which was built through industry and real estate by previous generations. He is located in Gotham City but sadly, when exiting a theatre, Thomas and Martha Wayne are murdered by a mugger right in front of their son, Bruce. This tragedy shocks Gotham, leads to Park Row (the street where it occurred) being labeled Crime Alley. Bruce inherited the family fortune while being raised by the family butler, named Alfred.

It is rumored that Bruce leads some sort of double life so I'm not sure if I would mess with him.

I hope this helps!;)
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Yeah but Bruce is not here and Thomas is dead. Very funny stuff!
 
Joe Barringer said:
Revelation!
If you really want to know what gave FWS “ammunition” to go after this cause were you and your ilk. That’s correct sunshine. I won’t expound on the specifics but you certainly know a guy named Lucky who had and still has a website for all the world to see. Your arrogance to think you could ship ivory cues, have them be displayed online and not be noticed! The years roughly 2000 through 2010. How in the world did Lucky get hundreds of USA made ivory cues sunshine? You and your ilk had it down to a science. Oh and for those of you reading this and don’t have a clue – Lucky and his website reside in Japan. Are we to believe you never shipped an ivory cue to Japan? Case closed. Have a nice day.
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You make a good point. But you should not assume Thomas shipped his cues to Japan. I have seen many Asian buyers at trade shows buying cues. I have also heard some of them got their cues confiscated when they tried to take them back to Asia.
 
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20 years ago, OJ drove that white Bronco.
" I loved her too much" he said.
He blames the cops to this day.

Back to the ivory ban. I remember the federal ban on assault
rifles. What happened to that?
 
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