Ivory cues not allowed in Japan?

Chicken_Blood

Chicken_Blood

Carpe Poultry
Silver Member
I was at Felt in Denver yesterday and met a fellow AZr who told me that if you go to Japan and bring cues that have ivory they will confiscate them. I am going in a few weeks and was planning on bringing a few cues that is was going to sell while there. Is this true?
 
Yeah, I wouldn't risk taking them. Truth is, I'd say you would have a pretty good chance of getting them in, but the one chance in a million they decide to call you on it, and your cues will be confiscated and never returned to you. I've done it several times, and many of the pros take their cues with them for large events in Japan, but there's always that small chance you'll get a wise ass at customs.

Dave
 
Tokyo-dave said:
Yeah, I wouldn't risk taking them. Truth is, I'd say you would have a pretty good chance of getting them in, but the one chance in a million they decide to call you on it, and your cues will be confiscated and never returned to you. I've done it several times, and many of the pros take their cues with them for large events in Japan, but there's always that small chance you'll get a wise ass at customs.

Dave
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And this is true even for pre ban ivory?
 
Tokyo-dave said:
Yeah, I wouldn't risk taking them. Truth is, I'd say you would have a pretty good chance of getting them in, but the one chance in a million they decide to call you on it, and your cues will be confiscated and never returned to you. I've done it several times, and many of the pros take their cues with them for large events in Japan, but there's always that small chance you'll get a wise ass at customs.

Dave
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Glad you responded Dave Measure man said that you would know for sure.
 
Truth is, I think that as long as its a personal item and not intended for resale, then you should be ok. But how can you really prove anything? And, I've tried to use the pre ban argument in the past with no luck. All the per an paperwork stays with the original purchaser, so it could be with the cue maker or even worse, the supplier that the cue asker buys his ivory from. And there is no way to prove that a particular ivory inlay came from a particular legal batch without physically removing the specimen to be tested (and I've had this happen to me) and removing means destroying. I had a cue get hung up at US customs because of a pressed pig skin wrap that the clever agent thought was banned monitor lizard. The only way to get my cue through was to let them remove the wrap, destroying it by the way, to have it tested. Then when it tested to be pig skin, I got my bare naked cue and torn up pig skin back with no sorry or reimbursement. Don't know as much about the Japan side, but the US side is allowed to do pretty much anything they want with absolutely no liabilities as long as they suspect something to be wrong.
Dave
 
Tokyo-dave said:
Truth is, I think that as long as its a personal item and not intended for resale, then you should be ok. But how can you really prove anything? And, I've tried to use the pre ban argument in the past with no luck. All the per an paperwork stays with the original purchaser, so it could be with the cue maker or even worse, the supplier that the cue asker buys his ivory from. And there is no way to prove that a particular ivory inlay came from a particular legal batch without physically removing the specimen to be tested (and I've had this happen to me) and removing means destroying. I had a cue get hung up at US customs because of a pressed pig skin wrap that the clever agent thought was banned monitor lizard. The only way to get my cue through was to let them remove the wrap, destroying it by the way, to have it tested. Then when it tested to be pig skin, I got my bare naked cue and torn up pig skin back with no sorry or reimbursement. Don't know as much about the Japan side, but the US side is allowed to do pretty much anything they want with absolutely no liabilities as long as they suspect something to be wrong.
Dave
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Wow that's a bummer. So really there is no safe way to bring an ivory jointed cue with ivory ferrules into Japan. So I can really only bring my low end cues with me?
 
That's true with most customs agents around the world. And as far as I know, you cannot resell ivory (preban or not) across country lines, hell in some states you can't even do it within the state or across state lines....

Chicken, you stated you wanted to sell them in Japan... you can't.
 
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Chicken_Blood said:
Wow that's a bummer. So really there is no safe way to bring an ivory jointed cue with ivory ferrules into Japan. So I can really only bring my low end cues with me?
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Like I say, if you bring them packed in your suitcase as personal belongings, I give you a 90% chance of success. But the 10% chance isn't worth it. Where are you planning on going to sell your cues? And what do you have? Might be able to help.
Dave
 
waylander said:
That's true with most customs agents around the world. And as far as I know, you cannot resell ivory (preban or not) across country lines, hell in some states you can't even do it within the state or across state lines....
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Guess I won't be buying any more Ivory cues as I am about to be traveling quite a bit and would like to play while abroad.
 
Ivory trade and transport was banned by CITES back in, I think, 1990 or so.

As such, it's illegal to carry it from or to any "State" that recognizes CITES. "State" being a country.

It really has nothing to do with pre-ban or not.

There are some exceptions, but the paperwork is extensive. Research it, and you can decide if you want to take your cues with you.
 
RBC said:
Ivory trade and transport was banned by CITES back in, I think, 1990 or so.

As such, it's illegal to carry it from or to any "State" that recognizes CITES. "State" being a country.

It really has nothing to do with pre-ban or not.

There are some exceptions, but the paperwork is extensive. Research it, and you can decide if you want to take your cues with you.
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Thanks Royce, I think I might just leave the ivory at home. BTW I used to play with George Tutka. I remember you bringing in one of the 1st OB shafts at Clicks on rosemead. If I remember it was a Red and white candy cane looking thing. Congrats on all your success.
 
I agree that it isn't worth the risk.

That said, I was in Japan last November and met up with a couple AZBros there, one had a SWEET Scruggs that was ivory-laden and I believe he travels with it, in/ out of country.
 
Just bring stuff that isn't ivory and doesn't look like ivory. High end stuff here sells all the same. The biggest problem you will have is the gaijin/language barrier. Most pool halls probably wouldn't be too receptive of a random gaijin trying to hock a couple cues unannounced. If you are a well known pro, know the language and can set up an appointment, or know someone that can, however, things might be different. There are plenty of english speaking dealers in japan that can do this for you, although your profit margins will probably go down the drain.
 
I just bought a fully ivory inlaid Prewitt with ivory everything from a known dealer in the states and had it shipped to Japan last week. Cue was received yesterday in Saitama easy.

I've bought numerous ivory inlayed cue from the states shipped to China as well and have been lucky thus far.

Well these are successful cases and luck played a major factor. If something happened the seller bares no responsibility...
I have also heard horror stories from friends and one in particular involved a fancy Blackcreek and my friend here in Asia. Cue was confiscated with U.S customs when it was sent via courier. I believe having the cue confiscated with no implication was the lightest sentence..

With all that said..if you're travelling around the world and intend to shoot pool while you're at it then i wouldn't even recommend carrying an expensive cue to begin with. Also Juma plays as good as ivory if not better..

my 2 cents :grin:
 
My own personal stories involves a pair of high end Dishaw cues full of ivory. I was taking them into Germany. I have traveled with cues dozens of times and they almost never look at the cues. This time they did and declared that the cue had ivory in it.

I said no it's plastic. I said you can test it and when you destroy the cue and find out I am right you can pay me the $2000 per cue that I paid. The customs guys had a discussion for about 30 minutes and finally they let me pass.

After that I never again took a cue that had big ivory inlays, ivory joint, and ivory buttcap across international borders again. I have shipped them with the buyer understanding that if the cue is stopped then it's all on them.

I have heard some horror stories of people losing their cues, being fined and even being threatened with jail time for lying about the material in the cues. It's honestly just not worth it in my opinion. Like others have said you can take the cues with you and most likely you won't have a problem but if you do then you run the risk of losing your cues.
 
Also I've also heard of people using Sharpies to shade over ivory areas when shipping or transporting. Might sound silly but I think it'll work if done well and customs doing a quick look over. Nothing white = nothing suspicious?
Haven't tried this trick myself though.
 
Jive said:
Also I've also heard of people using Sharpies to shade over ivory areas when shipping or transporting. Might sound silly but I think it'll work if done well and customs doing a quick look over. Nothing white = nothing suspicious?
Haven't tried this trick myself though.
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And I wouldn't advise anyone to try it. As soon as you try to disguise it then you become a smuggler. Much different than just a normal person who might be ignorant of the law. Once you do something intended to deceive then you show that not only do you know the law but you are actively breaking it.

I have read of people getting into real trouble by painting over ivory in attempts to smuggle it.
 
JB Cases said:
And I wouldn't advise anyone to try it. As soon as you try to disguise it then you become a smuggler. Much different than just a normal person who might be ignorant of the law. Once you do something intended to deceive then you show that not only do you know the law but you are actively breaking it.

I have read of people getting into real trouble by painting over ivory in attempts to smuggle it.
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Good point John, never thought about it that way.
 
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