Ivory is nice in cues but...

Wrong forum,this belongs in the main forum,not the wanted /for sale forum.It gets pretty annoying seeing all these post that dont belong here. :rolleyes:
JUST MY .02 CENTS
 
Poolhawk said:
Wrong forum,this belongs in the main forum,not the wanted /for sale forum.It gets pretty annoying seeing all these post that dont belong here. :rolleyes:
JUST MY .02 CENTS
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Actually, I think that this is the correct place to post this since a lot of the cues for sale here have ivory in them. If we were to stop buying cues with ivory in them, then there would be no demand and people would stop acquiring it illegally. I still like to see a well done ivory cue regardless of the social/environmental impacts; just the selfish side of me I guess.
 
elephants are NOT facing extension, they are at record level populations, i'm involved in the safari industry in zimbabwe since 1999 my partners since the 50's, its propaganda to say they are facing extension, also ivory can be legally imported in to america under a CITIES permit-from certain countrys, but it needs to age for over 20 years before its useable in cues-I learned that from Ernie at Ginacue(i told him I have about 500 pounds with paper work when i asked him if he needed any), the media lies to us so much its sickening, the rhino poachers are the real problem in africa.

the safari industry's main interest is the preservation of game to keep it alive-you dont cut the peach tree down for the fruit-we dont shoot the last animal becase next season wouldnt exist, A ban was put on lion hunting for 5 years in one country it was a great idea, i saw less and less lions there every year-i spend alot of time in africa, 5 years later there were pleanty of lions so they were put back on quota by the Govt.-they come back fast, rhinos dont. i could go on about this topic but I wont, i make these points here and have before to put peoples minds at ease about the small amount of ivory we use in cues, a 50pound tusk will last a cue make along time,
 
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How many cuemakers out there can prove that the ivory they use in a cue is legal, or rather, does the average cuemaker out there have the paperwork to back up the purchase of their ivory stock? Once it is cut into slabs and cut for inlays, how can you or anyone for that matter, know where it came from?
 
I am growing tired of this topic. I am also tired everybody telling me how live my life. Why just pick ivory? Gold and diamond mines are awful. How about all the miners that have died mining coal. Why dont you do without electricity so nobody dies in mines anymore. You should also stop eating chicken. Have you seen how they treat those POOR animals. Their are more things to worry about in this world other than Ivory. Thats my two cents.
 
Fatboy said:
elephants are NOT facing extension, they are at record lever populations, i'm involved in the safari industry in zimbabwe, its propaganda, also ivory can be legally imported in to america under a CITIES permit, but it needs to age for over 20 years before its useable in cues-I learned that from Ernie at Ginacue, the media lies to us so much its sickening, the rhino poachers are the real problem in africa.
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This is true. I work with a guy who has been on a government commissioned herd thinning "hunt" where over 100 elephants were killed due to overpopulation. The meat was given to local villages and the ivory was held by the government for later sale. These "hunts" are never publicized, and they were not allowed to take pictures, guns and ammo were provided by the government, and they were supervised by the military.
 
Fatboy said:
elephants are NOT facing extension, they are at record lever populations, i'm involved in the safari industry in zimbabwe, its propaganda, also ivory can be legally imported in to america under a CITIES permit, but it needs to age for over 20 years before its useable in cues-I learned that from Ernie at Ginacue, the media lies to us so much its sickening, the rhino poachers are the real problem in africa.
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Thanks for the information and it sounds like you know what you're talking about. The news media can spin a topic to sway peoples opinions and without input like yours the public doesn't know any better. I'm a big fan of ivory in pool cues and I don't think the small amount used in cues would make that much difference especially if the elephant population is at record levels.
 
jjr183 said:
Actually, I think that this is the correct place to post this since a lot of the cues for sale here have ivory in them. If we were to stop buying cues with ivory in them, then there would be no demand and people would stop acquiring it illegally. I still like to see a well done ivory cue regardless of the social/environmental impacts; just the selfish side of me I guess.
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Do you really think that cuemakers are buying illegal ivory?? I dont think so,I'll bet they are very careful because they could lose everything. There are pieces of ivory on ebay that is being sold without documentation and cuemakers dont go to ebay for there materials.Watch the movie Blood Diamond,you wont want to buy diamonds either. Wars are fought over oil and millions die, so we should all stop driving cars right. We could have a discussion forever and my point was that people post up pool related items for sale here and now this thread is going to clog up the section and the cues will be bumped to the next page in minutes. :D
 
Fatboy said:
elephants are NOT facing extension, they are at record lever populations, i'm involved in the safari industry in zimbabwe, its propaganda, also ivory can be legally imported in to america under a CITIES permit, but it needs to age for over 20 years before its useable in cues-I learned that from Ernie at Ginacue, the media lies to us so much its sickening, the rhino poachers are the real problem in africa.
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While I am absolutely and totally against the use of illegal ivory, there is certainly some credible research to support your position. Who do you believe, or does the truth lie somewhere in the middle?

http://www.american.edu/TED/elephbot.htm

http://www.savetheelephants.org/news.asp?linkID=35&articleID=1573&rYear=2002

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/11/1105_041105_elephants.html
 
hoosier_cues said:
I am growing tired of this topic. I am also tired everybody telling me how live my life. Why just pick ivory? Gold and diamond mines are awful. How about all the miners that have died mining coal. Why dont you do without electricity so nobody dies in mines anymore. You should also stop eating chicken. Have you seen how they treat those POOR animals. Their are more things to worry about in this world other than Ivory. Thats my two cents.
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its africa things there are different than here, the meat poachers who use snares tourture animals, but they are starving people and there is ALOT more animals running around than you think, unless you have been to africa you just dont know-i was amazed at the populations of animals my first time, although some areas are poached out- the people and animals are just trying to survive, we put alot of $$ and effort into anti-poaching efforts the local governments do too, as the safari industry is the number one source of $$$ exacpt for Botswana(diamonds) and South Africa(almost a first world county)

when an elephant is shot 80% of the time they dont feel a thing just like cows in a slaughter house here in america. NONE of the protein goes to waste, when your a 8 hour drive from the nearest paved road and the locals dont have transportation, when an elephant is harvested they eat for months, they dry and cure the meat, i have ate it and its good, they use the body fat for cooking oil, its light like canola oil not like rendered beef fat. Nothing goes to waste in Africa they are in a desperate situation and make use of everything they can, they are heards of elephants everywhere, the biggest i saw we counted 108 as they walked single file past us from about 500 years away we had bino's to see them. Young bull's (jumos-local name) are illegal to shoot as are cows with calfs and ethically it isnt right, the poachers dont pay mind to what they kill but they chase more rhino because they are worth more $$$.


i can keep going if anyone is interested, one more thing on all hunts there is a govt game scout present to make sure no rules are broken, if there is a violation the lessee of the land(safari operator) can lose his land so no rules are broken, only old animals are harvested to protect the gene pool and insure the future of the wildlife.
 
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Please Understand I'm Not Here To Change Anyones Mind, I'm Just Trying To Help People Learn A Bit About Africa My Other Passion In Life.

Thank You

Fatboy
 
I sincerely appreciate...

I appreciate the interest in the topic...I have had cues with Ivory in the past and none of my current cues have any Ivory inlays, joints or buttcaps. In talking with Eric Crisp...he uses many alternative materials to Ivory, that in my opinion are a lot nicer looking and do not have the inherent structural flaws present in most elephant ivory. It is impossible to tell preban from postban ivory and I thank you for your consideration in this most important issue.
 
Bamacues said:
While I am absolutely and totally against the use of illegal ivory, there is certainly some credible research to support your position. Who do you believe, or does the truth lie somewhere in the middle?

http://www.american.edu/TED/elephbot.htm

http://www.savetheelephants.org/news.asp?linkID=35&articleID=1573&rYear=2002

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/11/1105_041105_elephants.html
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i agree about the use of illegal ivory and the poaching of elephants, i hate it too. but saying they are becomming exinct isnt the way to stop the problem, and it isnt true. I worked for a feed the homeless charity once and 15% of the $$ fed the homeless the other 85% was administration costs, sadly charitys abuse the donors, i havent seen a single conservation effort in africa for elephants, I have seen the christian schools and thats $$ well spent, we do everything possible to stop it, but one thing I just learned from Ernie is that ivory must be harvested atleast 20 years before its useable, after he told me that i looked at my tusks and i have 2 with major cracks that go against the grain-just like he told me can happen, on all the tusks i have the Govt in my case zimbabwe engraves a serial number and the weight on each tusk, after its cut up it would obviously disappear, there is the same problem with diamonds google "conflict diamonds" alot of the diamonds are illegal too as the proceeds go to fund terriorism and other illegal anti govt activitys.

I would be the first guy to stop buying ivory anything if there was an ounce of truth about declining elephant populations. as you can tell i'm very passionate about this topic with all these posts. i ignore politics, i dont know the governors name in nevada or california-I live in both states. But when I do know about something I KNOW it, and this is my topic and passion. I'm not here to argue and if people chose not to believe me thats cool, i encourage them to go to africa and see first hand and not rely on the Discovery cahnnel for their info, its like pool, were not all bumbs in smokey pool halls with no lives its a misconception. same with the elephants-until you go you dont know.
 
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cuenut said:
This is true. I work with a guy who has been on a government commissioned herd thinning "hunt" where over 100 elephants were killed due to overpopulation. The meat was given to local villages and the ivory was held by the government for later sale. These "hunts" are never publicized, and they were not allowed to take pictures, guns and ammo were provided by the government, and they were supervised by the military.
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Its called "culling"-your post is spot on- and I dont like it and most of the hunting community dosent either, on the rare occasion it is necessary as the people and animals are competing for the land, they both live off the land where in america we go to the store and have pets. there have been more elephants culled than poached or sport hunted-this is my opinion and i'll have to verify it, when i make a statment if i'm not positive and admit it(as in this case), there are wearhouses of ivory from culls, years ago they used to burn it, can you imagine? terrible waste of elephants and ivory, the meat is awalys used. now they auction it off the Chinese usually buy it-which is probably the majority of the Ebay items.
 
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Lets face it,pmsmbc has a liberal agenda and is loaded with feel good propoganda.Passing up a cue with Ivory inlay may make you feel good but it will do absolutly nothing in the way of helping the cause you champion.It will probally make you feel better though,so mo' power to ya'. Wanting to do your part in conserving energy you buy a hybird. Then you drive the thing 75-80 mph. ,effectively defeating the original intent of fuel conservation. But hey,you got a hybird and you feel like your helping,right?
 
paulybatz said:
I appreciate the interest in the topic...I have had cues with Ivory in the past and none of my current cues have any Ivory inlays, joints or buttcaps. In talking with Eric Crisp...he uses many alternative materials to Ivory, that in my opinion are a lot nicer looking and do not have the inherent structural flaws present in most elephant ivory. It is impossible to tell preban from postban ivory and I thank you for your consideration in this most important issue.
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Well,I knew this was a plug for them sugar tree cues so here it goes.Me personally,He makes a decent cue but I havent seen ONE cue yet that appeals to me or my fellow collectors who I converse with.That glass cue look weird to me and dont see all the fuss. I would much rather have a trafitional looking cue with inlays then JUST a piece of wood. Go ahead and tell me how great they are but its all hype and there's another thread in this forum that discuss's the same topic about these plain looking all wood cues.
2800.00 for the glass cue is amazing,in the wrong way.I'd invest in a sw anyday for alot less and be better off
LOL
 
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