ivory joints

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old-newbe

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Any of you guys have pictures of ivory joints. i made a cue with a ivory joint and both side cracked just wondering if it was something i did. I never had a problem with any other materials, any tips or suggestions are welcome.


Thanks
Old-newbe
 
Ive never had an ivory joint crack. Owned or made by me. I'm not sure that you are asking. Simple bringing the cue from you warm house to the cold outside to the warm pool room can cause it to crack.
 
Maybe better stated by saying the shaft ivory collar crack out and the butt side joint cracked also he admitted to dropping it to crack the butt cap and he left it in the car in 100 plus temperatures. I guess what i am asking is more like what do you guys do on the butt side like a caped ferrule or like and normal phenolic joint. i guess there is now way of protecting against abuse just trying to figure out the best way to make it the most abuse resistant. I have also noticed that a lot of guys don't put ivory on the shaft side. You guys think it is more prone to failure?
 
old-newbe said:
Maybe better stated by saying the shaft ivory collar crack out and the butt side joint cracked also he admitted to dropping it to crack the butt cap and he left it in the car in 100 plus temperatures. I guess what i am asking is more like what do you guys do on the butt side like a caped ferrule or like and normal phenolic joint. i guess there is now way of protecting against abuse just trying to figure out the best way to make it the most abuse resistant. I have also noticed that a lot of guys don't put ivory on the shaft side. You guys think it is more prone to failure?
Click to expand...

its best to put a slight chamfer on the corner of ivory joints imop.....it must be seasoned properly as its no diff than wood it will stress and crack.

also you must be sure as to face off the joint properly or your going to put alot of stress on the edges of the ivory.......

properly seasoned and installed i wouldn't say ivory has a tendency to crack in my experience..........it will chip on sharp edges tho if not careful as such i like the chamfered edge.
 
I would never drill or bore a 5/8 hole all the way through an ivory joint. It needs more of a cap on it instead of having full 5/8 hole going allt he way through. You can make the 5/8 hole half way through then solid cap it. Or you can make the 5/8 hole half way through then bore a hold about .400" the rest of the way. This give you wood to tap through for installing the pin and if it does crack in the future it will be easier to repair than the solid capped. I have seen many ivory joints that were cracked, but so far with using both of the above methods none have cracked on any of my cues. But I know Ivory is very sensitive so I prefer the .400" hole through the cap for ease of replacement if one ever does crack.
 
Im with chris. I won't do a fully bored ivory joint. All the ones I've done were capped. I go .625 around and .750 tenon into the ivory leaving a .250 cap. Haven't had one fail yet.

I also haven't had a piloted ivory joint crack. With these I do .625 around .5 tenon and .250 pilot leaving about .250 material between the tenon and pilot hole.

I always felt you need material in the middle somewhere to stop the ivory from expanding and contracting from play or change in weather.

I have seen alot of makers do a .750 ivory joint sleeved over phenolic. Not enough material for my liking. I have passed on cues for this reason.

Mine...
4c745cf0-2196-ef81.jpg


What I don't like...
4c745cf0-21bb-f037.jpg
 
In 44 years of cuemaking I have tried every type of ivory joint.

I have found that the thin ivory joint with the fiber reinforcement inside is the design that cracks the least. Perhaps 1 in 100.
It also plays the best.

Bill Stroud
 
bstroud said:
In 44 years of cuemaking I have tried every type of ivory joint.

I have found that the thin ivory joint with the fiber reinforcement inside is the design that cracks the least. Perhaps 1 in 100.
It also plays the best.

Bill Stroud
Click to expand...

Hello Bill,
Would it be too much trouble to just elaborate on the fiber reinforcement you are referring to?
 
bstroud said:
In 44 years of cuemaking I have tried every type of ivory joint.

I have found that the thin ivory joint with the fiber reinforcement inside is the design that cracks the least. Perhaps 1 in 100.
It also plays the best.

Bill Stroud
Click to expand...


i seen a recent cue you finished for a friend here in columbus ohio, Gary.
he has a ivory joint cue from you done in this way, played real nice.
 
BENFICA said:
Hello Bill,
Would it be too much trouble to just elaborate on the fiber reinforcement you are referring to?
Click to expand...

If you look at #6 you will see the joint on one of my cues.
The ivory is thin walled and has fiber reinforcement ring inside of it.
I derived this design after years and years of trying all different types of ivory joints.
The thin wall seems to expand and contract better than other designs without cracking. It also has less ivory exposed on the end and that seems to help as well.
The capped design was always the worst. It moves the most and cracks the most often.

Bill Stroud
 
bstroud said:
In 44 years of cuemaking I have tried every type of ivory joint.

I have found that the thin ivory joint with the fiber reinforcement inside is the design that cracks the least. Perhaps 1 in 100.
It also plays the best.

Bill Stroud
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more.


I've built 100 or so Ivory joints and used all the techniques. I like thin wall sleeved Ivory best.
 
bstroud said:
In 44 years of cuemaking I have tried every type of ivory joint.

I have found that the thin ivory joint with the fiber reinforcement inside is the design that cracks the least. Perhaps 1 in 100.
It also plays the best.

Bill Stroud
Click to expand...

Bill I am with you, this is also how I have been doing it myself. With the Ivory Joint only acting as a decorative veneer there really is no stress on the the Ivory.

The way I figured this out was through testing different types of joints under adverse conditions. Since I am self taught I always test new idea's I have by building a demo cue for myself and putting it through it's paces.

Here is a photo of my current playing cue using what I call an Ivory Split Joint.

Joint 2.jpg

joint.jpg

Now to test this joint technique I have used this cue for breaking, 3-Cushion Billiards, and any other game I have played for the last year. To date the Ivory in this joint has not chipped or cracked under all the abuse I can give it.

In my opinion this joint type is as stable as any being used today or I am very very lucky and my joint may explode the next time I use it!!!:D
 
bstroud said:
In 44 years of cuemaking I have tried every type of ivory joint.

I have found that the thin ivory joint with the fiber reinforcement inside is the design that cracks the least. Perhaps 1 in 100.
It also plays the best.

Bill Stroud
Click to expand...

Hi,

I guess that is good enough for me too! Thanks for sharing that info?

Rick G
 
Thank you guys very much i think i got all the information i needed and more and more responses and interest than i could have imagined.


Thank you all once again
Old=newbe
 
bstroud said:
If you look at #6 you will see the joint on one of my cues.
The ivory is thin walled and has fiber reinforcement ring inside of it.
I derived this design after years and years of trying all different types of ivory joints.
The thin wall seems to expand and contract better than other designs without cracking. It also has less ivory exposed on the end and that seems to help as well.
The capped design was always the worst. It moves the most and cracks the most often.

Bill Stroud
Click to expand...
Hey bill. I saved that pic of that cue many years ago. I am almost positive you are not the maker. Being reinforced by phenolic could make it stiff but being so thin is what's scary. All it would take is banging that thin veneer on your follow thru during a shot for it to crack and fall out. Atleast Thats what I'm scare of.

At any rate. Your 40+ years deff trump mine so I will take the back seat in this one. Lol. Not for me tho.

Just wanted you to know no disrespect was intended. Like I said I'm pretty sure you weren't the maker of this cue.
 
Some ivory options

I practiced length of the table draw shots. A 60 inch Stroud Flat Faced Ivory, 2 Richard Blacks,(1 piloted,1 flat faced) 2 Richard Phillippi(1 piloted ,1 Flat Faced), and 1 Andy gilbert Ivory jointed Flat Faced. The flat faced for me felt much more solid and got more draw in all 3 cue makers cues (flat faced )won hands down. Gilberts is solid ,Stroud has a collar under the Ivory. mark
 
Saying you prefer the hit and feel of a flat face ivory joint is acceptable. To each his own.

Saying you draw the ball better bc the ivory joint is flat faced is ridiculous. Sorry
 
dave sutton said:
Hey bill. I saved that pic of that cue many years ago. I am almost positive you are not the maker. Being reinforced by phenolic could make it stiff but being so thin is what's scary. All it would take is banging that thin veneer on your follow thru during a shot for it to crack and fall out. Atleast Thats what I'm scare of.

Dave,

I really think that is a pic of one of my cues.
I have been building joints to this design over 20 years.
Your fear of it being thin is unfounded as long as the ivory is well supported it will not break. I have had a few crack over the years. Mostly in Taiwan.

Bill
Click to expand...
 
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