Ivory............

spktur

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have noticed that his ivory was always the best, pure snow white with the finest grain. Cut from the nerve area of massive tusks harvested in a time where everything was plentiful around the world.

Bill is just that way, all of his materials were the best available. Look at his ebony, perfectly solid black and his birdseye or cocobolo couldn't be much better. That's his personality. He had a cull bin in his shop full of unfinished cues he had rejected any pool player out there would have loved to have had for a player.
 

know it all

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Give me a break

From your logic I would like to point out that Mother of Pearl does cause the death of the creature living in the shell. And they are kind of protected too. By the way they shoot poachers on site in countries that actually care about the Elephants and yet they still have to shoot elephants themselves to keep the population heathy. It is just like our Deer and Elk populations. They must allow hunting or they will not maintain a healthy population.

We are talking a shell,not a live living warm blooded animal,that has a right to live,not to be butchered. Don,t twist the facts ,an endangered species,and you are talking about deer and elk, what the heck did you miss here.Where does your logic come from on elephants. Your logic or 2 cents stinks this thread up pretty bad. Rich aka the skunk.
 
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Icon of Sin

I can't fold, I need gold. I re-up and reload...
Silver Member
I didn't know that.

Is it currently illegal to ship a cue with ivory in it across state lines? Within a state?

No. Yoyu can ship legal, preban, ivory anywhere you want within the country however they are currently trying to outlaw the sale of it across state lines. This will hurt a lot of cuemakers at the expo and other events where cues are sold.
 

Rick S.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
out of balance

By the way they shoot poachers on site in countries that actually care about the Elephants and yet they still have to shoot elephants themselves to keep the population heathy. It is just like our Deer and Elk populations. They must allow hunting or they will not maintain a healthy population.

I wonder why that is?

I wonder if it's because we upset the natural balance already by killing off all the Wolves that used to control the Deer and Elk populations?

Or was it the Bears? Or Mountain Lions?

It's all of them, I imagine. Seems things worked naturally for a long, long time before Man came along.


Watch this short video to see how Wolves totally changed Yellowstone Park. It really is amazing that just ONE animal could have such an impact on so many different things. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa5OBhXz-Q
 

Icon of Sin

I can't fold, I need gold. I re-up and reload...
Silver Member
I wonder why that is?

I wonder if it's because we upset the natural balance already by killing off all the Wolves that used to control the Deer and Elk populations?

Or was it the Bears? Or Mountain Lions?

It's all of them, I imagine. Seems things worked naturally for a long, long time before Man came along.


Watch this short video to see how Wolves totally changed Yellowstone Park. It really is amazing that just ONE animal could have such an impact on so many different things. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa5OBhXz-Q
Stop condemning your own existance... no one cares... no one's mind here is gonna change about ivory no matter how many widlife tree hugger videos get linked here.

You don't like it, don't buy it. I like it, I will continue to buy it until I am legally unable too.
 

cueaddicts

AzB Gold Member
Silver Member
Some text from an email I just received from Sandra Brady.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

HI everyone!
Just when you think it’s all quiet for the holidays-
We, you and I together with the organizations who have joined this fight, have been doing a great job slowing things down, and hopefully turning the tide, however, the fight is not over. The next page has turned, and prosecutions have begun on the state level. This news from NY saddens me terribly, and I believe is a precursor of more to come. Rob has put together a letter to send out from our elephant protection.org website. Just click the link below, and sign in your information. You can look over the letter, and add your personal comments- I’ve already sent mine in. I know everyone is busy and preoccupied with Christmas, but this will only take a few minutes, and it may save you a lot of headaches and possibly court appearances and fines, or worse. We must be heard! Thank you and Merry Christmas to all-

Scrimshaw by Sandra Brady
http://www.elephantprotection.org/

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Government Bullies Mom & Pop Businesses Over Ivory

Your activism is why the federal government is taking its time publishing the regulation we expect will alter or revoke the Special Rule on African Elephants that allows pre-ban ivory to trade in the United States. Unfortunately, non-government organizations like the Humane Society of the United States and the Wildlife Conservation Society have been busy with a PR campaign against ivory. They are continuing to lobby both the federal government and many individual states for an ivory ban.

We are already seeing the results, and they are worse than expected. Agents from the New York Department of Environmental Conservation hit at least 2 vendors at the Pier Antique Show on November 22-23 in New York City.

The government has long maintained that they don’t care about small time ivory owners. Instead, they want to catch and prosecute international criminal syndicates and terrorists to stop elephant poaching. So who were the kingpins that were busted in New York City?

Their first criminal mastermind was a lady of 72 years selling jewelry to supplement her Social Security income. Based in the Carolinas and in New York only for this show, the jewelry maker was stung by an undercover NYDEC agent who asked her questions about a necklace and earing set that she marked as containing beads from mammoth ivory. After freely identifying the ivory from long extinct animals, the NYDEC agent flashed his badge and others swooped in to search her entire collection. In total they seized two necklace/earing sets, a bracelet, a pin, and a set of earrings. She explained that she didn’t know about the New York law, and that she bought the mammoth beads used to make jewelry at least 8 years ago. She made the other jewelry with scrap ivory that she had for much longer than the mammoth beads. The agents didn’t care. The government seized $1400 worth of jewelry and issued a summons to appear i n court for violating the NY State Ivory Ban.

The second villain was a folk art dealer from New York. He also described NYDEC treating him like a drug dealer. His contraband – a couple of sets of “teethers” – crudely carved whale bone or ivory sticks made by sailors in the 1800s for babies to chew on when cutting their teeth. As with the senior citizen jeweler, agents seized what they believed to be ivory and issued the folk art dealer a summons to appear in court. He estimated the seized teethers to be worth about $250.00.

After the show, the folk art dealer and his wife contacted all of their elected officials to find out what they did wrong. His state representative warned him that he needs a lawyer because he faces a $5000 fine if convicted of dealing illegal ivory. When he asked about getting a license to sell ivory in accordance with New York law, he was advised that he could submit an application, but all of the applications to sell elephant ivory just sit in a pile on someone’s desk in Albany without further action.

This kind of government heavy-handedness is what we warned people about when the President’s Advisory Council started talking about imposing an ivory ban in March 2013. Instead of going after Chinese smugglers and criminal syndicates, the government is persecuting the most vulnerable and least culpable citizens in zealous pursuit of ivory ban enforcement statistics. No living animal was helped by this, but innocent small businesses will be crushed.

Fight back now, before it’s too late. CLICK here to send ALL of your elected representatives a letter asking them to disregard the animal rights activists’ pleas for a domestic ivory ban that won’t save a single elephant but will needlessly punish innocent Americans who own and trade legally imported ivory.

Rob Mitchell
 
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Rick S.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Stop condemning your own existance... no one cares... no one's mind here is gonna change about ivory no matter how many widlife tree hugger videos get linked here.

You don't like it, don't buy it. I like it, I will continue to buy it until I am legally unable too.



You won't continue long.....LOL according to the new news ;)
 

ktmrider765

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You won't continue long.....LOL according to the new news ;)

Laws wont stop the sale of ivory..it may stop cue makers from using it..but for the cues that have ivory..the sales will always continue...laws wont stop that..laws dont stop anything
 

Jodacus

Shoot...don't talk
Silver Member
Bava,

You asked a few questions of me. Here are my answers.

Global warming exists. It occurs after every ice age.

Shoreline erosion has been occurring since the oceans were formed.

Most animal extinctions happened long before the presence of man.

Mankind just isn't as important to this world as we would like to think we are.


Thank You,
Joe
 

Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Joe.....You Evaded The Facts........

It's impossible to have a debate or even just a meaningful discussion with anyone that refuses to accept "FACTS". In case you've forgotten, a fact is something that has really occurred or is actually the case and tends to be synonymous with truth.......which is important.

Killing elephants for their tusks and ears is wrong.........there is no defending that whatsoever.........but prohibiting any use and sale of ivory taken prior to 1978 is also wrong......and two wrongs don't make a right, does it? And the United States is vigorously enforcing this ban which is a major deterrent to ivory smuggling into the USA or its territories. As other nations join in and pressure mounts, perhaps at some point the needless slaughter of elephants can be stopped.

In the interim, if the ivory here in the USA right now is legal, then why shouldn't it be legal to use that ivory for jewelry, musical instruments, pool cues, etc.? Despite that the ivory is legal, aberrant minded people still take the leap.....they say it will encourage.....inspire....promote....ivory poaching & smuggling.......BULLSHIT. There is no causal relationship, not even a derivative association, between the two.....pool cues are not contributing to elephants being slaughtered.

Matt B.
 

cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
We are talking a shell,not a live living warm blooded animal,that has a right to live,not to be butchered. Don,t twist the facts ,an endangered species,and you are talking about deer and elk, what the heck did you miss here.Where does your logic come from on elephants. Your logic or 2 cents stinks this thread up pretty bad. Rich aka the skunk.

By the way I think the African Elephant was taken off the endangered list many years ago. I have not heard of them being put back on. The same thing that applies to Deer and Elk also applies to Elephants. If there is no hunting season they will over populate and become a very unhealthy population.
 

Blue Hog ridr

World Famous Fisherman.
Silver Member
Wolves and other natural predators usually took care of over population in the past.

But then, lets have open season on Wolves.

Mother Nature has always worked well. It's when man steps in and figures that they know best.
 

know it all

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Mother Nature

Wolves and other natural predators usually took care of over population in the past.

But then, lets have open season on Wolves.

Mother Nature has always worked well. It's when man steps in and figures that they know best.

Mother Nature has always worked well. So very true my friend. It's very sad whats going on in this world with animals,and more sadly human beings. Merry Christmas my friend. And to everyone on az. Goodbye Rich.
 

Canadian cue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As it relates to pool cues, how many people will pay tens of thousands of dollars or even thousands of dollars for a cue in which the white in it IS NOT ivory? People only place so much value on art and craftsmanship, pool cues are a value added product. High end cues without ivory is akin to costume jewelry. The way the laws are going this industry is going to take a sh#t kicking.
 

Chicagoplayer

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Elforyn Instead!

This... this this this this!

Seized ivory needs to be flooded into the market dirt cheap... that will reduce the price and rarity of it which will then discourage the poachers who are making a ton of money off of it.

The money the governments then get from said ivory sales could go to something worthwhile like their 3rd world country's schools, water systems, medicines, or even... wait for it... wildlife preservation if it is so damn important to them.

But no... its better to just destroy it :rolleyes:
__________________________________________

The entire pool community should take these facts to heart:

Elephants feel, protect and provide for their families and are highly intelligent.
(probably smarter than humans)
Do we place value on their tusks because of these facts?
Where does the value come from-the difficulty of obtaining such a thing
If that's the case -

Humans are pretty smart and have accomplished outstanding things throughout the millennia-
Should it be my joy to knock out some guy,
then pry out his eye teeth and make 'em in to something pretty,
then cut off his ears to make my cue wraps?

We are stupid, selfish and wasteful because we know how cognizant the things around us are, yet we continue as though we know nothing, justifying it from the bible,
"it says we have dominion over the beasts."

You also have dominion over your own actions,
doing the right thing when the right thing is called for.

feigning ignorance for the sake of a dollar is sad when I know you know...

-CP
 

DrGonzo

As your attorney...
Silver Member
I won't buy a cue that doesn't have ivory in it. Make of that what you will.
 
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