Cj is absolutely right. It just goes to show that there are so many levels involved in this game but that is what makes it so great and frustrating at the same time. So great and frustrating because not only do you have to know the right shot but also have to execute as well. Think about chess if you know the move you pick up your piece and move it. Now imagine if you had to throw your piece in the air 3 feet and make it land on the board knocking your opponents piece off.
JA vs MD push out after the break match.
- Thread starter bfdlad
- Start date
There's thousands of shots not played that would be if they played "Roll Out Rules"
I am always honest on here and will quit posting the day I feel the need to not be {honest}. Even if I broke like Shane (and Johnny does) I would vote to change to these rules. The game will never go anywhere like it is now.
I am willing to practice my break for 8 hours a day if needed, but I just don't think that's the way the game is headed. It's not just the break, it's the rack too, you have to have both working together for success.
The break and rack becomes most of the game, that's why Johnny and I don't like it. There's thousands of shots not played that would be if they played straight "Roll Out Rules"...... literary thousands, think about that for a minute.
I am always honest on here and will quit posting the day I feel the need to not be {honest}. Even if I broke like Shane (and Johnny does) I would vote to change to these rules. The game will never go anywhere like it is now.
I am willing to practice my break for 8 hours a day if needed, but I just don't think that's the way the game is headed. It's not just the break, it's the rack too, you have to have both working together for success.
The break and rack becomes most of the game, that's why Johnny and I don't like it. There's thousands of shots not played that would be if they played straight "Roll Out Rules"...... literary thousands, think about that for a minute.
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Sure, you're saying that lots of other things can happen to affect who wins the game other than the push and the decision by the player with the option.
But if it is true that having the option to shoot or pass it back to the pusher really bestows an advantage, then over a large number of games involving pushes, we would expect that advantage to show itself in the percentage of games won.
Cj I have a question for you. First I wanna say I love your game and how you are such an unconscious and dead stroke player you are. My question is for your style of play do you think this particular stipulation with the push out would slow you down because you now would be doing more thinking at the table which hinders that dead gear kind of play or with your knowledge and experience and a little bit of playing that style would just become unconscious again?
Thank you good to be here
Hope I can contribute to this fine group of billiards enthusiasts
For the most part the players just kept quiet
No, I'd love to compete again playing Roll Out. It's like anything else, the beauty is in the complexity of things. I have an arsenal that I don't ever get to use that makes the game so much more fun for me and players like Johnny, Rodney, Sigel, Earl, etc.
Imagine a concert pianist that could only use 30% of the keys....imagine an artist that could only use 30% of their colors.
This is how we feel about the "new" style of 9 Ball, it's just maybe 30% of what it could be if they just played the right rules. There's nothing lucky or easy about 9 Ball, it's evolved into a carnival game to speed up tournaments.
The players never had a say so in the rules changing, faster cloth, and jump sticks sneaking into the game. For the most part the players just kept quiet, often times being paid to endorse these products until the game became what it is today.
The Game is not very happy, and ohhhhhh, if it could only speak. 'The Game is the Teacher'
No, I'd love to compete again playing Roll Out. It's like anything else, the beauty is in the complexity of things. I have an arsenal that I don't ever get to use that makes the game so much more fun for me and players like Johnny, Rodney, Sigel, Earl, etc.
Imagine a concert pianist that could only use 30% of the keys....imagine an artist that could only use 30% of their colors.
This is how we feel about the "new" style of 9 Ball, it's just maybe 30% of what it could be if they just played the right rules. There's nothing lucky or easy about 9 Ball, it's evolved into a carnival game to speed up tournaments.
The players never had a say so in the rules changing, faster cloth, and jump sticks sneaking into the game. For the most part the players just kept quiet, often times being paid to endorse these products until the game became what it is today.
The Game is not very happy, and ohhhhhh, if it could only speak.
'The Game is the Teacher'
Yes, welcome....I take it we know one another?
Response to at large
So with your style of play would you enjoy that type of strategical back and forth?
How about when you were younger and playing that knockout style alluding to your boxing analogies.
The push out stip seems more like the rope a dope method more suited for Johnny's play. Obviously a player like yourself can adapt to any style just curious on your thoughts
This whole thread has become a brain buster for me. Think about it. You play pool to run out break hard and run out again and on and on. Now you have some of the best players saying breaking and running out is mundane and you need to add more strategy into it besides connecting the dots. I understand this completely and I love the strategic mindset of the game as much as the physical execution required. When combined to perform these two things together it truly is a blissful feeling. Easier said than done tho. To get to the point where you can "think unconsciously" is truly a beautiful thing and a state of mind like no other. And then to do it under the lights and pressure.....fugheddaboutit
It would make one pocket pale in strategic and analytical entertainment.
Listen, we ONLY played Roll Out for big money and made fun of the One Foul rules. One Foul was designed for TV tournaments to speed up the game and equalize the fields. These rules were created by promoters, not players.
Two Foul rules are vastly superior to One Foul, like I said One Foul is like using 30% of the piano keys to play music. You just won't see very much of the true game of 9 Ball without the Two Foul rules.
With one foul rules you are either playing a shot or playing a safe, with two shot rules you are constantly maneuvering and figuring out how to beat your opponent. You have to figure out what they are weak at and tempt them to shoot shots they shouldn't and put pressure on them by making tough shots when they come up. This plays into a tremendous mental game of "cat and mouse".
This is just the way it is, with one foul there's very little strategy at all, with Two Foul there's an incredible amount of strategy and if you do it from the break it would be strategic in ever single game.
This is a dream for the best players, it would make the game so much more fun and entertaining. It would make one pocket pale in strategic and analytical value, and comparison.
Listen, we ONLY played Roll Out for big money and made fun of the One Foul rules. One Foul was designed for TV tournaments to speed up the game and equalize the fields. These rules were created by promoters, not players.
Two Foul rules are vastly superior to One Foul, like I said One Foul is like using 30% of the piano keys to play music. You just won't see very much of the true game of 9 Ball without the Two Foul rules.
With one foul rules you are either playing a shot or playing a safe, with two shot rules you are constantly maneuvering and figuring out how to beat your opponent. You have to figure out what they are weak at and tempt them to shoot shots they shouldn't and put pressure on them by making tough shots when they come up. This plays into a tremendous mental game of "cat and mouse".
This is just the way it is, with one foul there's very little strategy at all, with Two Foul there's an incredible amount of strategy and if you do it from the break it would be strategic in ever single game.
This is a dream for the best players, it would make the game so much more fun and entertaining. It would make one pocket pale in strategic and analytical value, and comparison.
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Please clarify how two foul was/is played?
How about the Americans playing rotation? What are your thoughts about that?
Basically you can roll out anytime you choose
Basically you can roll out anytime you choose. Your opponent can either accept the shot or pass it back to you.
Two fouls by the same player is ball in hand....and you spot all balls. Ball in hand behind the line on a scratch...(two diamonds up) and you spot the balls behind that line on a scratch. This requires making a lot of "spot shots".
Those are the main rules.
Basically you can roll out anytime you choose. Your opponent can either accept the shot or pass it back to you.
Two fouls by the same player is ball in hand....and you spot all balls. Ball in hand behind the line on a scratch...(two diamonds up) and you spot the balls behind that line on a scratch. This requires making a lot of "spot shots".
Those are the main rules.
Go back to 4 1/8" pockets in the TAR room and use the wood rack (no magic rack). Do the same for tournaments.
Using Shane Van Boening as an example...
Shane is a great player, but opening up the pockets to 4 1/2" and using the 10-ball magic rack allows him to out-break his opponent instead of having to out-play them.
In other words, Shane's chances are improved against guys like Orcollo, Bustamante, etc. under the new TAR conditions (bigger pockets + magic rack) versus the old conditions.
And, FWIW, I think "The Action Report" was much better before it became a free roll for both players.
